My wife will never submit to me...should that matter?

[robwar]

MMSL is all about owning your mistakes and changing yourself, but within the frame of a proper Christian marriage. Marital advice counselors will typically have female centric advice outside of this.

Him becoming more masculine and dominant (not abusive) will indeed help his relationship. Just read their forums and this works for so many people, it did foe me very quickly. Society keeps trying to tell men to be wimps and submissive to their wives but this is horrible advice.

Yes fix your problems, love and serve your wife, but from within a frame of strength, leadership and masculinity.

no one said to become a wimp or emasculate himself. But the submission quotes of St. Paul are not a club and when someone comes on the internet, admits he has been the problems and then muses that his wife isn’t going to submit which none of us know what that means to him. The better would be to weak face to face help and continue working on the past hurts with the wife.

 

[Sochi]

Anyone interested in reading books on marital happiness that are actually useful and yield results might very well invest in these two:

Slow Sex: The Art and Craft of the Female Orgasm by Nicole Daedone (May 22, 2012) Nicole Daedone is a sought-after speaker, author, and expert in female orgasm, relationships, and communication. Her book makes the argument that an extraordinary life begins with a different kind of orgasm.

Nicole is the founder of OneTaste, a company that offers training in orgasm, communication, and man-woman relationships through online media and in-person coaching and courses. The practice at the heart of her work is called OM or Orgasmic Meditation.

and

Could a profound connection between a woman’s brain and her experience of her vagina affect her greater sense of creativity—even her consciousness? In her provocative and important new book, VAGINA: A New Biography (Publication date: September 11, 2012; $27.99; 384 pages), bestselling author of The Beauty Myth Naomi Wolf argues that this connection is not only real—and long-overlooked—but that it is fundamental to a woman’s sense of self.

Though this one is about female brain/body connection, it is a phenomenal and eye-opening resource for any male who reads it.

 

[holy_face]

I’m just quoting from the author’s home page here:

"Happily married. Laid like tile." (his self-description).

Would St. Joseph ever describe himself in such terms?

No but so what, I said from the beginning that it was not a Christian book but much can be used to help your relationship. There is nothing wrong with increasing your sex life within marriage. You are taking issue with the language but the issues at their core are applicable.

Chapters on “sexy moves”, “sexting” and “rough stuff”.

Ugh. How could anyone think this was compatible with Catholic teaching?

You can take it or leave it yourself but there is nothing wrong with sexuality within marriage, are you suggesting that we should be prudes within our marriages?

**Athol discovered that he could cross over pickup artist advice to married men and they started getting more sex in their marriages. **

Do you know what “pickup artist advice” is, and how morally repulsive it is?

But if you want to defend this stuff, well…wait for it, “Who am I to judge?”

There is quite a bit of truth to pick artist stuff, nothing wrong with it if you are using it to secure a wife or strengthen your marriage. There are some aspects of it that are for player types but that is not for Christians.

It is based on evolutionary psychology, not just some random tips to pick up babes. We all have biological drives that we do not always realize.

Just like many other things in life it depends on how you apply it.

This is true. That doesn’t mean we should tell the OP to read trashy books or divorce his wife. Again, what would St. Joseph do? St. Louis (he had a high-spirited wife)? Bl. Louis Martin?

In your opinion it is trashy, in my opinion it is not. I don’t agree with everything but I am adult enough to realize what does fall within my Christian beliefs and what does not. Are you suggesting that we never lean anything outside of an “official Catholic perspective.”

I was never given an official Catholic guide to living every aspect of my life. We have to figure it out with all the help we can get as long as it is not in conflict with our beliefs.

Straw man. I have never quoted any feminist material. I merely object to un-Catholic material. There is an authentic, Christian way to assert one’s headship - nay, even to rebuke an erring wife. But your “alpha game plan” is not it.

So you never read anything that is not a Catholic book? What is wrong with being an alpha? it is from scripture, christian headship, Christ is the ultimate alpha male.

Non sequitur. Again, you’re ascribing views to me that I’ve never expressed.

If this is what the “Married Man Sex Life” programme does to a man, I’m glad I’m not part of it.

OK, many Christians have said it saved their marriages from impending collapse. It helps people.

 

[RPRPsych]

You can take it or leave it yourself but there is nothing wrong with sexuality within marriage, are you suggesting that we should be prudes within our marriages?

If you think “rough stuff” is a solution to power struggles in a marriage, well, Heaven help us all.

There is quite a bit of truth to pick artist stuff, nothing wrong with it if you are using it to secure a wife or strengthen your marriage. There are some aspects of it that are for player types but that is not for Christians.

It is based on evolutionary psychology, not just some random tips to pick up babes. We all have biological drives that we do not always realize.

Evolutionary psychology?

We’re not animals, as St. Thomas Aquinas points out. We are rational beings. There are evolutionary psychologists who justify rape and uxoricide, too. Are we going to follow them simply because we have biological drives?

Christ is the ultimate alpha male.

Be careful, mon ami. You are playing with fire here.

 

[holy_face]

leadership is the home is more about dying to oneself and serving another. THAT is real leadership, It is not demanding submission based on a couple quotes from ST. Paul. Jesus example of leadership at the last supper was to wash everyone’s feet. It is service not demanding submission. Demanding submission is what radical islam is. Leadership is about self-sacrificing love and giving up one’s life. You used St. Paul as a club. Now you want to back out of it in claiming that this view is some feminist idea. This is all kinda curious considering your mormon faith and coming onto a Catholic forum and say the kinda things you are saying and implying.

Well your view falls outside of scripture, it is not the model of a Christian marriage. You can serve and still be the leader at the same time. You can love and honor your wife while being the leader, it has nothing to do with bossing her around.

 

[holy_face]

If you think “rough stuff” is a solution to power struggles in a marriage, well, Heaven help us all.

No it is not the solution to power struggles, but you would be surprised about how many “Christian” girls really enjoy it within their marriage. If it is something that does not work in one’s marriage then certainly don’t apply it.

Evolutionary psychology?

We’re not animals, as St. Thomas Aquinas points out. We are rational beings. There are evolutionary psychologists who justify rape and uxoricide, too. Are we going to follow them simply because we have biological drives?

Be careful, mon ami. You are playing with fire here.

If you want to deny evolution and our biological drives you can but regardless they are still there. We have to acknowledge them and tame them the best we can, to pretend they don’t exist only means big problems later on.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

There are a lot of “newbies” taking a great interest in this thread.

A bit of advice. Note, I am not a moderator.

The topic of the thread needs to be adhered to. And charity should be observed.

There should not be prosthelytizing of non Catholic theology.

I say this because I have seen threads closed and people banned for these types of things.

If you wish to discuss a controversial book or give advice for a programme that seems to be at odds with Catholic theology, perhaps a thread should be started by one who cares enough to do so.

Welcome to those who are new! Good luck.

 

[holy_face]

There are a lot of “newbies” taking a great interest in this thread.

A bit of advice. Note, I am not a moderator.

The topic of the thread needs to be adhered to. And charity should be observed.

There should not be prosthelytizing of non Catholic theology.

I say this because I have seen threads closed and people banned for these types of things.

If you wish to discuss a controversial book or give advice for a programme that seems to be at odds with Catholic theology, perhaps a thread should be started by one who cares enough to do so.

Welcome to those who are new! Good luck.

My response suggesting MMSL is no different than someone else suggesting marriage counseling, there nothing necessarily “uncatholic” about it, much of it falls within scripture about reestablishing your headship which falls perfectly within scripture and is directly relevant to the original topic.

Are all sources on these forums forbidden that are not officially approved and certified Catholic? Because a alot of the other responses here that suggest he just serve his wife are not based on Christian marriage either, they similarly should be banned.

So long as we approach the subject from our Catholic faith and beliefs, it falls completely with in our religion. We have to discern many different things in this world that are secular and not Catholic in nature, it is how we apply these things to our lives that matter. Biology, Chemistry, Sociology, Psychology etc. are all valid subjects for us to study are they not?

 

[Sochi]

If you think “rough stuff” is a solution to power struggles in a marriage, well, Heaven help us all.

Yep, fer sure.

Evolutionary psychology?

We’re not animals, as St. Thomas Aquinas points out. We are rational beings. There are evolutionary psychologists who justify rape and uxoricide, too. Are we going to follow them simply because we have biological drives?

Might be more useful to not read the above as “allness” statements. They are positions of hypothetical explanation, anyway, and not offered as codes of mandatory conduct, yes?

And St. Thomas might far better had said that we are animals capable of being rational in some instances and with rigorous training. In fact, most people, “thinking” they are awake and rational, are very much in a hypnotic/dream state. If you disagree, perhaps you are not observant of the “news,” the people around you, such pop segments as Jay Leno’s street interviews and newspaper excerpts, Jimmy Kimmle’s “lie witness news,” and many other such phenomena, and observations by actually wise individuals about human stupidity. Or of these fora. And it is possible you haven’t done a brutally honest self assessment, either. St. Thomas, bless his soul, was being idealistic at best.

 

[RPRPsych]

Well your view falls outside of scripture, it is not the model of a Christian marriage. You can serve and still be the leader at the same time. You can love and honor your wife while being the leader, it has nothing to do with bossing her around.

Yes, through rough stuff, sexting, “alpha male gameplans”, and evolutionary biology.

 

[eeriechallenge]

There are a lot of “newbies” taking a great interest in this thread.

A bit of advice. Note, I am not a moderator.

The topic of the thread needs to be adhered to. And charity should be observed.

There should not be prosthelytizing of non Catholic theology.

I say this because I have seen threads closed and people banned for these types of things.

If you wish to discuss a controversial book or give advice for a programme that seems to be at odds with Catholic theology, perhaps a thread should be started by one who cares enough to do so.

Welcome to those who are new! Good luck.

This is very interesting. If I understand you correctly, my citing Ephesians is “prosthelytizing [sic] of non Catholic theology”.

Also interesting to note that I never once talked about the religious/ethnic group I was born into. The minute I said something that went against the radical feminist tone of this forum, it was seized on by you (not just you of course, other bigots also) to insult me. How do you know I’m not in RCIA? Are you promoting the Catholic faith by spreading hatred and bigotry? It is also curious to note that a feminist from Jezebel, who lists her religion as “atheist” is fawned over and never attacked here. lol

You can ban me if you want. It’ll serve as an illustration of the nature of Catholics, in attacking the person who comes up with a different point of view.

 

[holy_face]

Yes, through rough stuff, sexting, “alpha male gameplans”, and evolutionary biology.

LOL, cherry pick terminology so that you can make your nice straw man to display. You ignore the vast majority of it which is simply improving yourself. Alpha man game plan is nothing different than the husband regaining his leadership, it is a Christian concept. It is just presented in a secular manner because it is not just for Christians.

There is also nothing uncatholic about rough stuff and sexting within a marriage, many people will choose not to do these things, they are very minor parts that you have pulled out to create your straw man.

The book was not written exclusively for Christians but has many aspects that relate, and many that do not, the same as many other subjects in this world that we have to deal with.

It would be great if someone would write something similar from a completely Christian perspective, maybe I will one day, I will not including “sexting” and “rough stuff” I promise.

 

[Xantippe]

Back to the OP’s original question.

As you are right now, you aren’t well-equipped to be the head of anything.

In my experience, we get authority (in marriage and elsewhere) by taking on responsibility. Authority and responsibility are very closely linked, and it is a major error to believe one can have authority without responsibility. For instance, whichever of us happens to be helping the kids with their school work has authority over that project. If my husband is supervising a child doing a school report, he has the final say-so over that project. Or if he’s doing some sort of home project, I might have some (name removed by moderator)ut, but he’s in charge. Or if one of us is doing the dishes, we can do it our way, even if one of us (and you can guess who) has a method of running the dishwasher which results in dishes that are still covered in chocolate syrup after they run…So, if you want more authority, take on more responsibility.

Keep talking, keep listening, work hard, have fun, do a personal finance class together, make plans for the future and seek out professional help as needed.

And don’t take marriage advice from guys who seem to hate women.

Best wishes!

 

[RPRPsych]

If you want to deny evolution and our biological drives you can but regardless they are still there. We have to acknowledge them and tame them the best we can, to pretend they don’t exist only means big problems later on.

The church calls it “original sin” and “concupiscence”, not “biological drives”.

Please read Humani Generis before immersing yourself in these spiritually dangerous ideas.

 

[eeriechallenge]

Yes, through rough stuff, sexting, “alpha male gameplans”, and evolutionary biology.

Could you please cite the page in MMSL where this “rough stuff” is promoted? I’ve read the book, and never noticed any “rough stuff”.

I take it that it is your opinion that Christians should not enjoy sexual relations with their wives. You will be happy to note that you are absolutely wrong, according to 1 Corinthians 7 (as you have been about everything else you’ve claimed here). Christians are admonished to have sex with their spouses, and sex within marriage is held as a good thing. Nothing in that book contradicts this scripture.

 

[RPRPsych]

And St. Thomas might far better had said that we are animals capable of being rational in some instances and with rigorous training. In fact, most people, “thinking” they are awake and rational, are very much in a hypnotic/dream state. If you disagree, perhaps you are not observant of the “news,” the people around you, such pop segments as Jay Leno’s street interviews and newspaper excerpts, Jimmy Kimmle’s “lie witness news,” and many other such phenomena, and observations by actually wise individuals about human stupidity. Or of these fora. And it is possible you haven’t done a brutally honest self assessment, either. St. Thomas, bless his soul, was being idealistic at best.

But that capability and potential is what makes us human. Otherwise, we’re just the third chimpanzee (to borrow a phrase from Jared Diamond.)

Even Richard Dawkins, that notorious hater of religion, said: “We, of all species, have the ability to transcend our selfish genes.”

 

[holy_face]

The church calls it “original sin” and “concupiscence”, not “biological drives”.

Please read Humani Generis before immersing yourself in these spiritually dangerous ideas.

The Church accepts evolution, time to get up with the times. Nobody is saying we should act with our animal drives, just that we have to realize we are influenced by them and act accordingly, such as the fact that men tend to want to establish harems (many partners) while women are hypergamous. If we realize this then we can better fight against these urges.

 

[eeriechallenge]

Back to the OP’s original question.

As you are right now, you aren’t well-equipped to be the head of anything.

The bible commands the wife to respect her husband, and the husband to love his wife. The OP obviously loves his wife, as he has come here begging for help from strangers. The OP’s wife obviously does not respect her husband.

The commandments of Jesus and the wisdom of the church fathers equip this man well to be the head of his household. He needs no “advice” from you. I have no doubt that he has had years of your sort of “advice”, which has led his marriage to its present state.

The OP should never take advice on being a man from women. Women do not know what it means to be a man or a husband. The OP should take advice from successful men, who have faced similar challenges and overcome them.

 

[RPRPsych]

Could you please cite the page in MMSL where this “rough stuff” is promoted? I’ve read the book, and never noticed any “rough stuff”.

It’s in the table of contents here:

marriedmansexlife.com/books/primer/

I take it that it is your opinion that Christians should not enjoy sexual relations with their wives.

Again, where did I say that?

My views on sexual ethics are informed by the Theology of the Body, and by Fr. Germain Grisez. You can check Fr. Grisez out here:

twotlj.org/G-2-9-S.html

Hardly prudish or Puritanical.

You will be happy to note that you are absolutely wrong, according to 1 Corinthians 7 (as you have been about everything else you’ve claimed here). Christians are admonished to have sex with their spouses, and sex within marriage is held as a good thing. Nothing in that book contradicts this scripture.

If St. Paul knew that 1 Corinthians 7 was being quoted to justify kinky sex, I’m sure his response would be quite explosive.

 

[Xantippe]

eeriechallenge said:

“The minute I said something that went against the radical feminist tone of this forum, it was seized on by you (not just you of course, other bigots also) to insult me.”

If you think CA has a “radical feminist tone,” you don’t know anything about what qualifies as “radical feminist.”

If you said that to actual secular feminists, they’d laugh until they cried.