Name one Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture

[Image_of_God]

Scripture NEVER applies this “special term” to Mary. So who does? Who declares that statement as truth and where is their proof?

You say she MUST be sinless. Why? Just because Christ was sinless? If Mary HAD to be sinless to give birth to Christ then I guess Mary’s mother, grandmother, great grandmother, great great grandmother, great great great grandmother, great great great great grandmother etc. etc. had to be sinless too so that Mary could be born sinless. Is that what you are expecting us to believe?

I’ll bet the catholic answer is no. So if Mary could be sinless having been born of sinners WHY couldn’t Mary be a sinner and give birth to Christ? I’ll answer. SHE COULD because what the Father wants the Father gets. Your “churches” theory DENIES the power of the Creator.

There is ONLY ONE Scripture that says “full of grace” and guess who it is referring to!

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of GRACE AND TRUTH. (John 1:14)

Emphasis mine.

Luke 1,28
Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you.

 

[Black_Knight_MI]

Oh, you did not just ignorantly dis the Blessed Virgin now did ya? You better break out your Greek New Testament and prepare to learn the truth!

The Immaculate Conception

It’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived “by the power of the Holy Spirit,” in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.

When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.

The traditional translation, “full of grace,” is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of “highly favored daughter.” Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for “daughter”). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning “to fill or endow with grace.” Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence. (LINK)

And the early church believed it too!
Blackie

 

[MariaG]

With all due respect HOW do you come to these conclusions based on what he posted?? It says what it says. Is it really necessary to play games when Scripture is so clear. So the Scripture posted disagrees with your “church”. Does that make the poster a liar? No. It makes…

Respectfully, it is obvious I could come to no conclusions what so ever and asked for clarification of their statement.

 

[MariaG]

Galatians 1:11-12 “But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is** not after man**. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

Interesting how the man God had write most of the NT didn’t fall under the apostolic succession doctrine but was taught as it is written in 1John 2:27.

originally posted by Mickey
He was an Apostle! What are you trying to say?

originally posted by JoshuaJ

Mickey,

Don’t be confused.

Galatians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead”

Where is apostolic succession?

And then my questions asking for clarification.

originally posted by MariaG
So you somehow are claiming that Paul was teaching a different gospel than that of the rest of the Apostles?

Or that the twelve were not picked by Christ?

Or that the apostles who were picked by Christ did not then give instructions on how to pick those who were to follow?

Not sure exactly what your claim is.

Could you please expand more?

God Bless,
Maria

I clearly am not making any conclusions, nor calling anyone a liar.

But I certainly would still look for clarification on how Paul being an apostle somehow negates apostolic succession since Paul was picked by Christ Himself as were the twelve, *if *in fact that is Joshuas claim that the teaching of apostlic succession contradicts scripture.

God Blesss,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Same old stuff from you adrift. You NEVER have Scripture to back up your crazy ideas. You want me to ASSUME that it is FITTING that Mary was sinless so that she could carry Christ. Well my friend that is why you are not on the path to salvation. You subscribe to doctrines that were created by men and have NO basis in Scripture.

God is your ultimate Judge I know but we are commanded to discern the spirits…

Yours is confused.

That is simply not true. We have shown the scripture. You have chosen to believe those who have come along, those scripture warns us against.

Scritpure talks of it, so does the early Church. It is only after the protestant reformation that your view is ever espoused, and not by the reformers themselves.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[RCCDefender]

I know I have come in really late on this thread but I feel I must address some of the things I’ve read. I don’t know if the lady is still reading this but maybe it will do someone some good…

This is why it was so important that He was not born of the sinful line of Adam through Joseph, but was born of the kingly line of David through Mary.

Hello!!! Joseph WAS of the House of David!

Extrabiblical, nowhere found in scripture.

How do you know what’s supposed to be in the Bible and what’s not? Why, you have to rely on a CATHOLIC council for that, don’t you??

Queen of heaven? Read Revelation 17 and 18 pretty scarry stuff.
Especially the purple and scarlet and golden cup. The 7 hills, did you know the vatican sits on seven hills of Rome Verse 9of Ch.17 ?

Umm, actually, I’ve been to Rome and I can tell you definitavely that the Vatican is NOT nor EVER WAS on one of the seven hills. There goes that idea…

This is an example of twisting the scriptures to your own destruction 2Peter 3:16

Hmmm… who would be twisting?

I used to be Cathoic myself…
Even the very devout Catholics that i know, don’t** seem **to have that personal relationship and closeness with Jesus that I see alot of Christians have. Christians have fellowship with one another, pray from the heart for one another, they don’t memorize prayers and misselets (however you spell that).

I place the word “seem” in bold because that’s really what this is about isn’t it? You think they have faith the size of a mustard seed, huh? Well, I think there is a parable about that. Really, you used to be Catholic? Guess you didn’t look at your missAL much, huh?

…but we do not crucify the Lord Jesus again and again, but we remember all that He did, and we read those passages of the Lords last supper and crucifiction to remember His agony for us.

Neither do Catholics, the mass is the CLEAN sacrifice that was predicted.

But we don’t believe in the transsubstanciation of the bread.

Then I guess you are not doing what Christ said to do. Specifically He said, “Amen, Amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” John 6:53

Jesus also said He was the door, do we make doors into Jesus ? Jesus said He was the vine and we are the branches, do we make vines into Jesus ?

How many times did Jesus repeat that He was these things? How many people who were listening to these sayings said, “this saying is hard; who can accept it?” (John 6:60)? How many of His disciples “returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him” (John 6:66) because he said he was a vine or a door??
If Jesus was not indeed going to give us his flesh and blood to eat then why did he not call after those who were leaving and say, “No, no, wait!! I didn’t mean that literally! I was just speaking figuratively!” What did he do instead? John 6:67 tells us, “Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?””

to be continued…

 

[RCCDefender]

If you are told that from childhood you will believe it no matter how off it is.

Well, do you know what I was told from childhood? I was told that the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon and the Pope was the Antichrist. Talk about something being way off!!!

You are looking at the bible through the lense of the Catholic church, when you should be looking at the bible through the lense of the Holy Spirit.

How do you know that? You yourself were converted by someone who showed you their interpretation of the Bible and you fell for it. So actually you are looking at the Bible through the lens of a fallible human being who led you away from the Truth.

The word of God is a true record.

Amen

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle with, as they do also other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Amen to that, too. So tell me, who do you think is more learned and stable? You (how many theology degrees do you have again?) or 2000 years of teaching authority that Jesus himself established on the Rock of Peter? (Or shall I say, that Jesus established on the Kepha of Kepha???)

*Oh I am very familiar with relics, and had a shrine to Mary in my room and Rosary beads,

If you think your shrine was a relic then you have absolutely no clue about relics.

and i followed the example of my mother and grandmother who vainly repeated these prayers

So I guess Jesus was vainly repeating prayers in the Garden. And the Angels in Revelation were, too, Huh? What about the Lord’s Prayer? I guess you never say it since to say it more than once, ever, could be constituted as a vain repetition. Oh, and I guess you never tell your mother that you love her, because boy, she’s heard that already, why would you repeat that?? That sure is vain…

We were never warned as Catholics not to look at the statues as a statue, but a real entity, a living being.

Do you have any pictures of your mom? Is the person in them a real entity, a living being? Do you ever even look at them? Well, I guess you should throw them away since they could be considered graven images.

Oh if only you knew this!

We can receive Him in the Eucharist 24/7 365. It doesn’t get any better than that.

Eden, you are so right! It doesn’t get any better than that! But I did want to verify, I thought we could only receive Him 24/7 363, since we can’t receive Him on Good Friday or Holy Saturday? I have read everything you have written and have thoroughly enjoyed it!

How old was Jesus when He was baptized ? Read Matthew3.

First off the baptism of John is not the same baptism that Christ sent his apostles to do.

Now He was dedicated by Simeon at the temple as a Child, but not baptized. It must be an act of ones heart and will to choose, not infant baptism.

As others have said, Christian baptism replaces Jewish circumcision, which is what happened to Jesus at the temple. Jesus said to “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.” Who are we to keep the children from Christ? He told His apostles to, “Go, therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” not, “Go, therefore and make disciples of all nations, except for those who have not yet reached the age of reason…”

Its pretty arrogant of you to pretend that I have fallen away from faith,

The same to you.

 

[RCCDefender]

I make it a habbit to go into the Calif. missions when I travel, I love the history, but don’t sense the Holy Spirit life, Ive even gone back to my old Catholic church once in a while and am reminded how dead it is, everyone prays w/ there eyes open, barely anyone participates in worship. and it is all memorized with no deep meaning. They even sing songs at the youth mass that were written by people from my church. The Holy Spirit, Lord and giver of life is missing.

Of course, it seems that way to you, since you have no idea and no respect for the true presence of Christ and the true mystery of the One True Faith of Jesus Christ.

My Catholic friends are worldly, when Jesus told us to be in the world but not of it in John 17 when He prayed for us, His true believers.

And I guess you are all Holier than Thou looking smugly down your nose and judging all the poor little Catholics?

 

[valient_Lucy]

Dear Eden,
False teachers ? The word of God ? False ? My teacher is the Holy Spirit, and if you think that is a false teacher, you need to take that up with God.

Are you asking us to believe that you have never attended a church and listened to a pastor give his interpretation of Scripture? Have you never read any book about Scripture? Have you never attended a Bible Study and listened to a leader discuss the Bible?

Be honest with yourself. No one, Catholic or Protestant, reads the Bible in a vacuum. If you want to read the Bible in a vaccuum, then stop attending your church, or at least plug your ears during the sermon.

 

[Valke2]

Although I know this has been discussed at length before, there are several new people who have said this recently. I think it is time to start a new thread again. Shall we make a list here that you wish to discuss and then start a new thread for each doctrine that a person believes is unscriptural?

Name one doctrine of the Catholic Church that contradicts Scripture. One that in fact does not have an implicit teaching in Scripture.

I am a Catholic that loves to “find it in the Bible”. If anyone can show me one doctrine of the Catholic Church that contradicts scripture, I’ll leave today.

Maria

I can name several that contradict the teachings in my scriptures. But I am assuming you directed this to other christians.

 

[Valke2]

Hasn’t the Church taken essentially two contradictory positions toward Jews over the years? Maybe this doesn’t rise to the level of doctrine?

 

[MariaG]

I can name several that contradict the teachings in my scriptures. But I am assuming you directed this to other christians.

Hasn’t the Church taken essentially two contradictory positions toward Jews over the years? Maybe this doesn’t rise to the level of doctrine?

Valke,

Not hearing what position you are refering to, I cannot be sure whether or not you are refering to doctrine or more “attitudes” towards Jews, but it probably is not a doctrinal issue you are referring to.

I was not specifically refering to other Christians but I was referring to Catholic teachings that contradict Christian Scripture, the Bible. So if you meant you knew of contradictions of something other than what Christians consider to be God’s inspired word, no, that is not what this thread is targeted to

Peace,
Maria

 

[Valke2]

Valke,

Not hearing what position you are refering to, I cannot be sure whether or not you are refering to doctrine or more “attitudes” towards Jews, but it probably is not a doctrinal issue you are referring to.

I was not specifically refering to other Christians but I was referring to Catholic teachings that contradict Christian Scripture, the Bible. So if you meant you knew of contradictions of something other than what Christians consider to be God’s inspired word, no, that is not what this thread is targeted to

Peace,
Maria

Catholics look to the Church to interpert scripture, right? So if you’re not Catholic you may disagree with the interpertation. I don’t really see that as someone being right and someone being wrong. But in any event, I would be arguing from a jewish perspective and that’s probably something better left for another thread.

 

[MariaG]

Catholics look to the Church to interpert scripture, right? So if you’re not Catholic you may disagree with the interpertation. I don’t really see that as someone being right and someone being wrong. But in any event, I would be arguing from a jewish perspective and that’s probably something better left for another thread.

I agree that would be better on a thread all it’s own. But it could be an interesting one. Although I would may not have a lot of intelligent critique of it, I would certainly be interested in reading it if you got one started

Peace,
Maria

 

[M_Oliver]

That is simply not true. We have shown the scripture. You have chosen to believe those who have come along, those scripture warns us against.

Scritpure talks of it, so does the early Church. It is only after the protestant reformation that your view is ever espoused, and not by the reformers themselves.

God Bless,
Maria

Then please show me the Scriptures Maria. No, I DO NOT believe those who have “come along”. Calvin was an evil man. He burned a man alive at the stake. Does anyone not know this? Choose to ignore it?

I’ve said it repeatedly, I am not of ANY faith, church, denomination or whatever label you prefer, that you are capable of recognizing at this point in time.

Whoever has accused me of boasting when I have said this in the past is a liar. I am not boasting. In fact I am humbled by how much I do not yet know in the Scriptures!

It is a Scriptural truth that God purposes some to understand more than others.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? (Matthew 13:10)

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (Matthew 13:11)

Who is the them? Have you ever thought about this? Scripture reveals that it is the multitudes…could that be the billions of professing Christians? The BILLIONS. Do you think that catholics, protestants and everyone else with a label JUST MIGHT fit in this group?

It is a Scriptural truth that there are many who THINK they are in Christ but really are not.

For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

Again. Do you REALLY believe that EVERY catholic on this planet since Christ makes up the chosen few? It is impossible. Does every catholic, protestant and everyone else with a label DO THE THINGS which Christ says?

You all have members who support murder in the name of war, death penalties and abortion, do you not? Of course you do. Yet YOU ALL think you are right and anyone who dares point these facts out is wrong.

Your problem, not mine…

 

[Mannyfit75]

Then please show me the Scriptures Maria. No, I DO NOT believe those who have “come along”. Calvin was an evil man. He burned a man alive at the stake. Does anyone not know this? Choose to ignore it?

I’ve said it repeatedly, I am not of ANY faith, church, denomination or whatever label you prefer, that you are capable of recognizing at this point in time.

Whoever has accused me of boasting when I have said this in the past is a liar. I am not boasting. In fact I am humbled by how much I do not yet know in the Scriptures!

It is a Scriptural truth that God purposes some to understand more than others.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? (Matthew 13:10)

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (Matthew 13:11)

Who is the them? Have you ever thought about this? Scripture reveals that it is the multitudes…could that be the billions of professing Christians? The BILLIONS. Do you think that catholics, protestants and everyone else with a label JUST MIGHT fit in this group?

It is a Scriptural truth that there are many who THINK they are in Christ but really are not.

For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

Again. Do you REALLY believe that EVERY catholic on this planet since Christ makes up the chosen few? It is impossible. Does every catholic, protestant and everyone else with a label DO THE THINGS which Christ says?

You all have members who support murder in the name of war, death penalties and abortion, do you not? Of course you do. Yet YOU ALL think you are right and anyone who dares point these facts out is wrong.

Your problem, not mine…

I don’t think she was targeting you as a whole but the man-made doctrines of Protestantism that was made in 1517 A.D. You are making a judgement upon her.

Oliver, you are not subject to place judge on another. I think it would be best if you keep your hostility to yourself.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Oliver,

Lastly, there are no Catholic teachings that contradict Scripure at all.

Even the Church Fathers themselves believe that Mary remain sinless.

“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).

“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.” Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.” Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).

“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).

“As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.” Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446).

“A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns.” Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446).

“The angel took not the Virgin from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged in the womb, when she was made.” Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (A.D. 449).

“[T]he very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.” Jacob of Sarug (ante A.D. 521).

“She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay.” Theotokos of Livias, Panegyric for the feast of the Assumption, 5:6 (ante A.D. 650).

“Today humanity, in all the radiance of her immaculate nobility, receives its ancient beauty. The shame of sin had darkened the splendour and attraction of human nature; but when the Mother of the Fair One par excellence is born, this nature regains in her person its ancient privileges and is fashioned according to a perfect model truly worthy of God… The reform of our nature begins today and the aged world, subjected to a wholly divine transformation, receives the first fruits of the second creation.” Andrew of Crete, Sermon I, On the Birth of Mary (A.D. 733).

“[T]ruly elect, and superior to all, not by the altitude of lofty structures, but as excelling all in the greatness and purity of sublime and divine virtues, and having no affinity with sin whatever.” Germanus of Constantinople, Marracci in S. Germani Mariali (ante A.D. 733).

“O most blessed loins of Joachim from which came forth a spotless seed! O glorious womb of Anne in which a most holy offspring grew.” John of Damascus, Homily I (ante A.D. 749).

 

[rbarcia]

Oliver,

Lastly, there are no Catholic teachings that contradict Scripure at all.

Even the Church Fathers themselves believe that Mary remain sinless.

Mat 23

8"But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.** 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

**

These quotes do not prove that the early church believed this, many of these quotes are much later. As these quotes get later in history you see this thought emerge. The earilier the quote you show, the less it shows that the early church believed it. Do you have any quote before the year 235?

Secondly, you claim to know what a man believed 1800 years ago based on a sentence.

“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.” Hippolytus, Orations Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235).

“This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one.” Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244).

“Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary.” Ephraim, Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother.” Ephraem, Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370).

“O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides.” Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin, 71:216 (ante AD 373).

“Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace has made inviolate, free of every stain of sin.” Ambrose, Sermon 22:30 (A.D. 388).

“We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace,4 2[36] (A.D.415).

“As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain.” Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446).

“A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns.” Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446).

“The angel took not the Virgin from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged in the womb, when she was made.” Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (A.D. 449).

“[T]he very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary.” Jacob of Sarug (ante A.D. 521).

“She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay.” Theotokos of Livias, Panegyric for the feast of the Assumption, 5:6 (ante A.D. 650).

“Today humanity, in all the radiance of her immaculate nobility, receives its ancient beauty. The shame of sin had darkened the splendour and attraction of human nature; but when the Mother of the Fair One par excellence is born, this nature regains in her person its ancient privileges and is fashioned according to a perfect model truly worthy of God… The reform of our nature begins today and the aged world, subjected to a wholly divine transformation, receives the first fruits of the second creation.” Andrew of Crete, Sermon I, On the Birth of Mary (A.D. 733).

“[T]ruly elect, and superior to all, not by the altitude of lofty structures, but as excelling all in the greatness and purity of sublime and divine virtues, and having no affinity with sin whatever.” Germanus of Constantinople, Marracci in S. Germani Mariali (ante A.D. 733).

“O most blessed loins of Joachim from which came forth a spotless seed! O glorious womb of Anne in which a most holy offspring grew.” John of Damascus, Homily I (ante A.D. 749).

Since my membership was deleted with the site failure, here is a list comparing the catechism book quotes on Mary to the Bible on Mary.

home.nj.rr.com/rbarcia/List3.html*

 

[valient_Lucy]

Since my membership was deleted with the site failure,

That’s too bad. Evil computers. Welcome back, though.

 

[RCCDefender]

It is a Scriptural truth that God purposes some to understand more than others.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? (Matthew 13:10)

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. (Matthew 13:11)

Who is the them? Have you ever thought about this? Scripture reveals that it is the multitudes…could that be the billions of professing Christians? The BILLIONS. Do you think that catholics, protestants and everyone else with a label JUST MIGHT fit in this group? Yes, which is why Christ established the Church, to teach us to observe all that He commanded. (Matt. 28:20) Jesus did not give each one of us the insight, He gave His insight to the Church (which He founded on Peter). That is why the Church is called the pillar and foundation of truth(1 Tim. 3:15). That is why He tells us to turn to the Church when there is a matter being disputed(Matt. 18:17). Christ promise to lead the CHURCH into all truth(Jn. 16:13), not individuals who run around with Gideon Bibles and “just me and Jesus” attitudes.
M_Oliver;1490027:

Again. Do you REALLY believe that EVERY catholic on this planet since Christ makes up the chosen few? It is impossible. Does every catholic, protestant and everyone else with a label DO THE THINGS which Christ says?

You all have members who support murder in the name of war, death penalties and abortion, do you not? Of course you do. Yet YOU ALL think you are right and anyone who dares point these facts out is wrong.

1. No 2. No 3.Yes 4. Yes, the Church holds the Fullness of Truth. That does not mean that Her individual members are sinless or can never be wrong. Catholics who support abortion, murder, and euthanasia are in sin. Does that mean that the Church teaches that these things are okay? NO!