National Sunday Law

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I appreciate your sincerity.

But I refuse to be taught by anyone who is telling me anything that is contrary to what’s in the Bible.
Yet that one comment you just made is contrary to the Bible…

Hebrews 13:17 - Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

You are commanded in scripture to obey the leaders of the Church and SUBMIT to them. Are you willing to follow this Biblical command if what they say contradicts your private interpretation which we are warned about?

I am!

AS far as your references to prophecy… There are other interpretations of of the Beast of Dan that are just as valid, in fact more valid than you own… in fact this is especially true in regards to the SDA beliefs of Daniel 8, and Rev 13-19. Your math does not even add up… and that is in addition to the historical inaccuracies.
 
Are you sure you’re Catholic?

Do you believe Mary was a virgin her entire life, even though the Bible records Jesus as having both brothers and sisters?

Please show me in the Bible where it says she was a virgin her entire life.
I am absolutely Catholic.

I already answered your question about Mary being a virgin… why are you asking me if I believe it again?

Please show me in the Bible where it says that Mary had sex…
 
Ok…

Question 1: Why do I bow down to Idols.
Answer: I dont…

Question 2: Why do you believe Mary remained a virgin her entire life?
Answer: Because the Word of God tells me so!

I answered your questions very simply… Now answer my question to you -

Please show me from scripture… how Sabbath keeping Astronauts can keep the Sabbath in Space from Sundown to Sundown, when there is no Sundown.

There you go!
Midnight to midnight on whatever clock you’re on would be my way of doing it…I believe they’re synchronized with one primary location on terra firma. If that’s what you want to do to escape keeping that day holy, go for it.
 
BibleTruth,
I answered your questions honestly… You still have not answered mine.

Please show me from scripture… how Sabbath keeping Astronauts can keep the Sabbath in Space from Sundown to Sundown, when there is no Sundown.
Ok…

Question 1: Why do I bow down to Idols.
Answer: I dont…

Question 2: Why do you believe Mary remained a virgin her entire life?
Answer: Because the Word of God tells me so!

I answered your questions very simply… Now answer my question to you -

Please show me from scripture… how Sabbath keeping Astronauts can keep the Sabbath in Space from Sundown to Sundown, when there is no Sundown.

There you go!
 
I am absolutely Catholic.

I already answered your question about Mary being a virgin… why are you asking me if I believe it again?

Please show me in the Bible where it says that Mary had sex…
Matthew 1:25: “But he (Joseph) did not have sexual relations with her (Mary) **until **her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.”

Matthew 12:46: “As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.”

Matthew 13:55: “Then they scoffed, “He’s just the carpenter’s son, and we know Mary, his mother, and his brothers—James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas.”

Mark 16:1 (NLT): “Saturday evening, when the Sabbath ended, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome went out and purchased burial spices so they could anoint Jesus’ body.”

Acts 1:12-14: “Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, a distance of half a mile. When they arrived, they went to the upstairs room of the house where they were staying. Here are the names of those who were present: Peter, John, James, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James (son of Alphaeus), Simon (the Zealot), and Judas (son of James). They all met together and were constantly united in prayer, along with Mary the mother of Jesus, several other women, and the brothers of Jesus (separate from the named apostles).”
 
Midnight to midnight on whatever clock you’re on would be my way of doing it…I believe they’re synchronized with one primary location on terra firma. If that’s what you want to do to escape keeping that day holy, go for it.
BibleTruth,
I am sorry…** I asked for you to show me from the Bible how to do it. To my knowledge Midnight to Midnight is not in the Bible… if it is please show me and let me know the verse. **

Surely if God meant of mankind to follow his commandments, especially the Sabbath commandment after His resurrection, he would have instructed us on how to do it right? AFterall, God will not give a command that it is impossible to obey… right?

So… again… I ask you… Where does one tell us how does one keep the Sabbath in space, when there is no sunset.

Doesnt your own answer about going from Midnight to Midnight violate your entire premise that we must follow the Biblical Sabbath of Sundown to Sundown?
 
Bible… I asked you to show me a verse saying that Mary had sex!

The first verse you quoted me say that she DIDN’T have sex until at least Jesus was born… it doesnt mention her having sex after either.

The second text said that Jesus had brothers… so… it still doesnt say that Mary had sex. Jesus certainly had brothers… early writings tell us that they were from Josephs previous marriage, not Mary.

The Third verse… well… same thing.

So I still ask you… please show me the verse that says that Mary had sex!

B
Matthew 1:25: “But he (Joseph) did not have sexual relations with her (Mary) **until **her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.”

Matthew 12:46: “As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.”

Acts 1:12-14: Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, a distance of half a mile. When they arrived, they went to the upstairs room of the house where they were staying. Here are the names of those who were present: Peter, John, James, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James (son of Alphaeus), Simon (the Zealot), and Judas (son of James). They all met together and were constantly united in prayer, along with Mary the mother of Jesus, several other women, and the brothers of Jesus (separate from the named apostles).
 
BibleTruth,
I am sorry…** I asked for you to show me from the Bible how to do it. To my knowledge Midnight to Midnight is not in the Bible… if it is please show me and let me know the verse. **

Surely if God meant of mankind to follow his commandments, especially the Sabbath commandment after His resurrection, he would have instructed us on how to do it right? AFterall, God will not give a command that it is impossible to obey… right?

So… again… I ask you… Where does one tell us how does one keep the Sabbath in space, when there is no sunset.

Doesnt your own answer about going from Midnight to Midnight violate your entire premise that we must follow the Biblical Sabbath of Sundown to Sundown?
No, it allows me to use the sense that God gave me. Please be reasonable, here. Furthermore, you know they didn’t have clocks back then which is why God said, “the evening and the morning was the next day”. How else could they keep time? Yes, we’ve adapted some things to modern day with how we generally keep time, but anyone who keeps the Sabbath keeps it the way God intended…and it’s the most joyous and relaxing day of the week!

The apostles went to church and taught on the Sabbath as recorded in Acts…I’ve posted these passages before but more importantly, they’re in your own Bible for you to read yourself. Just because they gathered for different things on the first day doesn’t make that day is holy; you can’t keep a day holy that never was.

If you don’t think the Sabbath is referenced in the New Testament, read Hebrews 4 and tell me what your understanding (or interpretation…whatever) is. Better yet, ask your priests for theirs and see what they come up with? Part of the problem is if you ask three Catholics why the Sabbath shouldn’t be kept anymore, you’ll get five different answers. There’s way too much confusion over this, but if we kept to God’s word, we’d have clarity…and peace.

The ONLY reason you try to keep Sunday as a holy day is because you’re following the teachings of men…not God.
 
Matthew 1:25: “But he (Joseph) did not have sexual relations with her (Mary) **until **her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.”
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children until the day of her death” (2 Sam. 6:23).
So are you saying Michal had children after her death?
 
Bible… I asked you to show me a verse saying that Mary had sex!

The first verse you quoted me say that she DIDN’T have sex until at least Jesus was born… it doesnt mention her having sex after either.

The second text said that Jesus had brothers… so… it still doesnt say that Mary had sex. Jesus certainly had brothers… early writings tell us that they were from Josephs previous marriage, not Mary.

The Third verse… well… same thing.

So I still ask you… please show me the verse that says that Mary had sex!

B
You’ve got to be kidding me. I suppose we’ve got nothing else to discuss, you and me.
 
EXACTLY!! And the Sabbath and the rest of the Ten Commandments ARE INCLUDED IN THE 613! The Jews had no concept of two seperate laws like Adventism tries to create. They had one law… and that one law included all 613 of God’s commands INCLUDING the 10 Commandments.

ARe you? The Law of Moses is included the Ten Commandments. It included ALL of the commands of God. There was not two laws to the Jews, only one!

Scripture shows that the “law of God” and the “law of Moses” are the EXACT SAME LAW. The law of God included several thiongs that both Catholics and Adventists claim have been done away with:

Nehemiah 8 refers to the “book of the law,” and calls it the book of the law of Moses (v1)1And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

and the book of the law of God (v8,18). 8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

18Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.
God commanded it by Moses (v14), so both terms refer to the same law.14And they found written in the law which the LORD had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month:
Luke 2:21-24,39 - The law of Moses (v22) is called the law of the Lord (v23,24,39).
22And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;
23(As it is written in the law of the LORD, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
24And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
39And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.
This law included a purification rite and animal sacrifices. These were clearly done away (cf. Lev. 12:2-8). Hence, the law of the Lord is the same as the Law of Moses, and it contains things that were done away, this is because the Law of God/Moses was ONE law and contained all 613 of the Commands that God gave to the Jews!

There is absolutely no Biblical support of the idea that there were two seperate laws.

In 2 Chron. 31:2-4 the law of God included animal sacrifices, new moons, and feast days, which we know were done away.

2And Hezekiah appointed the courses of the priests and the Levites after their courses, every man according to his service, the priests and Levites for burnt offerings and for peace offerings, to minister, and to give thanks, and to praise in the gates of the tents of the LORD.
3He appointed also the king’s portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, to wit, for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as it is written in the law of the LORD.
4Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the LORD.
There is no distinction between the law of God and the law of Moses. It was both God’s law because He originated it, and Moses’ law because he revealed it (Neh. 10:29). This whole distinction is a man-made rule having no Divine source!

You quoted! Hebrews 8:10-11: “But this is the new covenant (Christ) I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Exactly… there is a NEW Covenant… because the OLD Covenant was abolished. What was the Old Covenant?

(Exo 34:28 NASB) So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Notice this verse states that the words of the covenant were the Ten Commandments; it does not mention the Jews acceptance or agreement to accept the law as being the covenant.
(Deu 9:11 NASB) "And it came about at the end of forty days and nights that the LORD gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant. This verse re-affirms that the two tablets of stone were the tablets of the covenant.
(1 Ki 8:21 NASB) “And there I have set a place for the ark, in which is the covenant of the LORD, which He made with our fathers when He brought them from the land of Egypt.”
Notice this says the covenant is INSIDE the ark, we know the Ten Commandments were in the ark. Do we really believe that the “agreement” between all the people and God, which would be immaterial, was somehow physically placed in the ark?
(2 Chr 6:11 NASB) “And there I have set the ark, in which is the covenant of the LORD, which He made with the sons of Israel.”
(Heb 9:4 NASB) having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden jar holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod which budded, and the tables of the covenant.

The Bible plainly states that the covenant IS the Ten Commandments! And as you rightly noted in Hebrews… it has been done away with!
Nice try…the point is, they’re not immaterial.

Exodus 25:21 (NLT): “Place inside the Ark the stone tablets inscribed with the terms of the covenant, which I will give to you. Then put the atonement cover on top of the Ark.”

Deuteronomy 31:26 (NLT): “Take this Book of Instruction and place it beside the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord your God, so it may remain there as a witness against the people of Israel."

In the KJV: “Take this book of the law, and put it **in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”

1 Kings 8:9: “There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.”

There is a big difference, friend. God’s Law was inside the ark and Moses Law (that you’re referring to) were outside…they weren’t meant to last forever.
 
So are you saying Michal had children after her death?
Perhaps this explains your lack of biblical understanding. Maybe another translation will help you…

2 Samuel 6:23 (NLT): “So Michal, the daughter of Saul, remained childless throughout her entire life.”
 
Perhaps this explains your lack of biblical understanding. Maybe another translation will help you…

2 Samuel 6:23 (NLT): “So Michal, the daughter of Saul, remained childless throughout her entire life.”
Yep, and Mary remained a virgin throughout her entire life.
 
No, it allows me to use the sense that God gave me. Please be reasonable, here.
I am being reasonable. YOU tell us we have to follow the Old Covenant Sabbath. I ask you for instructions on how to follow it in a real life example… You could say the same thing about artic Regions, Finland, Alaska, Northern Canada etc. where there is not a regular sunrise/sunset in the summer and winter season.

YOU tell us we have to obey the letter of the Sabbath commandment, but then say we can just go by our watches when its convenient. LOL

You said God gave you sense… Does that sense over ride scripture? Doesnt scripture say to keep it from Sunset to Sunset? If God intended all people, rather than just Israel to keep the Sabbath, then please tell me where the verse is that tells us how to do that.

These are REAL problems with your doctrine that you need to deal with. Why did God command us to keep the SAbbath from Sundown to Sundown when he knew that it could not be kept that way everywhere? If you think I am being unreasonable, then I suppose I shoudl same the same of you… for telling me to keep the Bible Sabbath, but then telling me to ignore it and just keep it from Midnight to Midnight. This logical and doctrinal inconsistency is why I am not Adventist any longer.

You said: Furthermore, you know they didn’t have clocks back then which is why God said, “the evening and the morning was the next day”.

Then it sounds like your argument is with God… not me! He is the one that Said Sunset to Sunset and your the one telling me that it still has to be kept by the whole world even when it is impossible.

You said: How else could they keep time?

Sundail… Surely this problem isnt too big for God is it?

You said: Yes, we’ve adapted some things to modern day with how we generally keep time, but anyone who keeps the Sabbath keeps it the way God intended…and it’s the most joyous and relaxing day of the week!

**So why is it you can adapt God’s law but you point your finger and tell us we are following man made beliefs when we say we adapted God’s law too. Little hypocritical dont you think? Or are you man made adaptations holier than ours? **

You said: The apostles went to church and taught on the Sabbath as recorded in Acts…

EVERY MENTION OF THE SABBATH IN THE BOOK OF ACTS without a single exception is in connection with Jewish worship on that day and not Christian celebration, nor does it mention anything related to observing the day as a Sabbath. Paul’s evangelistic strategy was to go to the Jews first in a community and share the Gospel with them. Sabbath is the day when he knew he would find the most Jews gathering for worship. It is not because he is meeting with a group of believing Christians. He was meeting with non-Christian Jews. Often we hear Adventist’s quote these verses and claim that if Paul was preaching to the Jews on the Sabbath, then he was keeping the Sabbath. However, this is a huge and erroneous leap in logic. If a SDA pastor went to a park on Sundays to preach to the people who were gathered, this would not make him a “Sunday Keeper”, likewise Paul’s choice to seize upon an opportunity where all Jews would gather and not be distracted by work, to preach to them, does not make him a Sabbath Keeper.

Hebrews 4 is not about the weekly Sabbath/Temporal rest… it is about “another day” which is “today”. Everyday, we can now rest from our works, because Christ fulfilled our need. We no longer need a weekly temporal Sabbath, we now have an eternal Spiritual Sabbath.
 
I will answer for SDA2RC on this one…

If you check out the library section of CA, each of your questions are answered…

You may not agree with the answers, but the they are the answers and you will see how it is NOT paganism…

And incase you do not know where it is… Here you go ther is a list of categories to the left of the page

In Christ
Why do you all insist on believing these lies. It’s as though you’re brainwashed.

To quote that library: “The faithful knew, through the witness of **Scripture **and Tradition, that Jesus was Mary’s only child and that she remained a lifelong virgin.”

Well guess what…Scripture doesn’t validate that line of thinking! I see they cited the translation “brethren”, but can’t account for Jesus’ sisters or that in Acts 1, the apostles were listed separately from his “brothers”.

Regarding your “traditions”…

Mark 7:6-9: “Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’ For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.”

THAT is Scripture. Can’t you see this?
 
Nice try…the point is, they’re not immaterial.

Exodus 25:21 (NLT): “Place inside the Ark the stone tablets inscribed with the terms of the covenant, which I will give to you. Then put the atonement cover on top of the Ark.”

Deuteronomy 31:26 (NLT): “Take this Book of Instruction and place it beside the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord your God, so it may remain there as a witness against the people of Israel."

In the KJV: “Take this book of the law, and put it **in *the ***side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”

1 Kings 8:9: “There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt.”

There is a big difference, friend. God’s Law was inside the ark and Moses Law (that you’re referring to) were outside…they weren’t meant to last forever.
Bible,
The book of the Law also contained the 10 Commandments. THE ENTIRE law came from God, whether in book form or on the tablets. The source was the same… GOD!

As I pointed out in my previous post, with plenty of scripture, the TABLETS were the Covenant… and the Covenant was done away with. Its simple really. You failed to address any of that in your reply.

See I dont care how many books were included on or around the Covenant. The ARC of the Covenant, contained the Covenant, written on the Tablets of the Covenant… and the Covenant was done away with. Obsolete! That is all straight out of scripture! You can argue it all you want… but your arguement is then with scripture not me.

You are continuing to deny Christ by following the Jewish Law, the very law he came to fulfill!
 
You’ve got to be kidding me. I suppose we’ve got nothing else to discuss, you and me.
I suppose not…

If you are making the claim that Mary had sex… and I ask you to support your claim with a verse that says that she had Sex… and you cant… your right… discussion is over! You cannot support your assertion from scripture! You were able to provide no text that said Mary had sex!
 
I am being reasonable. YOU tell us we have to follow the Old Covenant Sabbath. I ask you for instructions on how to follow it in a real life example… You could say the same thing about artic Regions, Finland, Alaska, Northern Canada etc. where there is not a regular sunrise/sunset in the summer and winter season.

YOU tell us we have to obey the letter of the Sabbath commandment, but then say we can just go by our watches when its convenient. LOL

You said God gave you sense… Does that sense over ride scripture? Doesnt scripture say to keep it from Sunset to Sunset? If God intended all people, rather than just Israel to keep the Sabbath, then please tell me where the verse is that tells us how to do that.

These are REAL problems with your doctrine that you need to deal with. Why did God command us to keep the SAbbath from Sundown to Sundown when he knew that it could not be kept that way everywhere? If you think I am being unreasonable, then I suppose I shoudl same the same of you… for telling me to keep the Bible Sabbath, but then telling me to ignore it and just keep it from Midnight to Midnight. This logical and doctrinal inconsistency is why I am not Adventist any longer.

You said: Furthermore, you know they didn’t have clocks back then which is why God said, “the evening and the morning was the next day”.

Then it sounds like your argument is with God… not me! He is the one that Said Sunset to Sunset and your the one telling me that it still has to be kept by the whole world even when it is impossible.

You said: How else could they keep time?

Sundail… Surely this problem isnt too big for God is it?

You said: Yes, we’ve adapted some things to modern day with how we generally keep time, but anyone who keeps the Sabbath keeps it the way God intended…and it’s the most joyous and relaxing day of the week!

**So why is it you can adapt God’s law but you point your finger and tell us we are following man made beliefs when we say we adapted God’s law too. Little hypocritical dont you think? Or are you man made adaptations holier than ours? **

You said: The apostles went to church and taught on the Sabbath as recorded in Acts…

EVERY MENTION OF THE SABBATH IN THE BOOK OF ACTS without a single exception is in connection with Jewish worship on that day and not Christian celebration, nor does it mention anything related to observing the day as a Sabbath. Paul’s evangelistic strategy was to go to the Jews first in a community and share the Gospel with them. Sabbath is the day when he knew he would find the most Jews gathering for worship. It is not because he is meeting with a group of believing Christians. He was meeting with non-Christian Jews. Often we hear Adventist’s quote these verses and claim that if Paul was preaching to the Jews on the Sabbath, then he was keeping the Sabbath. However, this is a huge and erroneous leap in logic. If a SDA pastor went to a park on Sundays to preach to the people who were gathered, this would not make him a “Sunday Keeper”, likewise Paul’s choice to seize upon an opportunity where all Jews would gather and not be distracted by work, to preach to them, does not make him a Sabbath Keeper.

Hebrews 4 is not about the weekly Sabbath/Temporal rest… it is about “another day” which is “today”. Everyday, we can now rest from our works, because Christ fulfilled our need. We no longer need a weekly temporal Sabbath, we now have an eternal Spiritual Sabbath.
I can only shake my head at your lack of vision as you skillfully try to sidestep God’s law.

If you actually read Acts (or previous posts), you’d see that the Gentiles also worshiped on the Sabbath.

Acts 13:42: “And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.”

Is this just my interpretation or is it what the Bible says?

Regarding Hebrew 4…I’ll just re-post what I posted yesterday since you missed it.
 
**You said: ** I can only shake my head at your lack of vision as you skillfully try to sidestep God’s law.

Let me go through this again…so everyone can see:
  • You said he must follow the Jewish Sabbath as laid out in the Commandments
  • You say it has to be kept from Sundown to Sundown
    I ask you a simple question:
  • Show me, from scripture, how to do this in the space or the artic regions.
  • You cannot provide 1 single verse to show me how to do this and therefore apply this command you claim we must obey universally.
  • You say that you would adapt the law to fit with those problems by doing it from midnight to midnight in a random time zone.
  • I say then that why can you adapt the law, but we cant.
    **THEN You accuse ME of sidestepping the Law because you cant answer from the Bible regarding your own assertions!
Funny!
**

**You said: ** IF you actually read Acts (or previous posts), you’d see that the Gentiles also worshiped on the Sabbath.
Acts 13:42: “And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.”

Um… sure… Gentiles werent allowed to work on Saturday in Jerusalem either… of course they could gather then. AGAIN… what we dont see is:
  • A Command to keep the Sabbath Holy
  • A record of Paul Keeping the SAbbath holy
  • A Record of The gentiles keep the SAbbath holy.
    They simply gathered for a meeting… big deal… they had the day off.
**You said: ** Is this just my interpretation or is it what the Bible says?

It must be your interepretation… because the text didnt say what you said it did. It said nothing about observing the Jewish Sabbath.
 
Please show me in Scripture where it says we’re to worship Mary or that she stayed a virgin her entire life, then we can talk about perverting the gospel.
**Well I dont know of any Gospel that says to worship Mary, and I know for a fact that Catholics dont worship Mary. So does this new teaching about worshipping Mary comes again from your new 19th century biblical interpretation and prophecy? Or are you breaking the commandment “thou shalt not Lie”.

The scripture is very clear to the written teachings and oral Traditions of the early Church that Mary remained a virgin her entire life. Scripture does not deny this fact. 1900 years later, You change this teaching and believe Jesus had brothers? and where in scripture does it say that Mary was not a perpetual virgin or she engaged in marital affairs. You see your new age teaching that Mary was not a virgin, is not supported by the bible or Tradition.

This is what sacred Tradition teaches, Mary was a Nazarene, tradition holds it was common for these tribes to make take up vows to God. But being your bible faith does was not in existance for some 1900 years later and you dont have any members to reach into the first century as Catholics do. Then the matter is settled by Sacred Tradtion supported by sacred scripture.

Numbers 30:Numbers
Chapter 30
1
Moses then gave the Israelites these instructions, just as the LORD had ordered him.
2
Moses said to the heads of the Israelite tribes, "This is what the LORD has commanded:
3
1 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or binds himself under oath to a pledge of abstinence, he shall not violate his word, but must fulfill exactly the promise he has uttered.
4
**"When a woman, while still a maiden in her father’s house, makes a vow to the LORD, or binds herself to a pledge,
5
if her father learns of her vow or the pledge to which she bound herself and says nothing to her about it, then any vow or any pledge she has made remains valid. **

"If she marries while under a vow or under a rash pledge to which she bound herself,
8
and her husband learns of it, yet says nothing to her that day about it, then the vow or pledge she had made remains valid.

14
**"Any vow or any pledge that she makes under oath to mortify herself, her husband can either allow to remain valid or render null and void.
15
But if her husband, day after day, says nothing at all to her about them, he thereby allows as valid any vow or any pledge she has made; he has allowed them to remain valid, because on the day he learned of them he said nothing to her about them. **16
17
These are the statutes which the LORD prescribed through Moses concerning the relationship between a husband and his wife, as well as between a father and his daughter while she is still a maiden in her father’s house.

Luke 1:But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” 12
35
And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

Mathew 1:18
6 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.
19
Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, 8 yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly.
20
Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord 9 appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her.
21
She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, 10 because he will save his people from their sins.”
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All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
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11 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.”

Now as you know Catholics have the fullness of the deposit of faith; you cant have sacred scripture without sacred Tradition and think you have the fullness of faith.

But if I know your 19 century biblical skills, you will invent a way through your new scripture interpretation to refute God’s word and the Sacred Tradtions of the apostles and the early Church. I mean do you know the names of the parents of the virgin Mary? Catholics do, this information is not recorded in scripture, but their names are handed down to the Catholic church by oral sacred Tradition. You do know that not everything Jesus said and did is recorded in scripture?

John 21;24
It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, 14 and we know that his testimony is true.
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**There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written. **

There are many other scriptures to prove her perpetual virginity, but you have to interpret scripture as the ancient Catholic fathers did in order to be receptive to the spiritual realities or these truths. to which you have confessed you dont hold to. So how are you going to see these revelations if you remain in the flesh, for if you cant understand the simple perpetual virgin of the Mother of Emmanuel (God is with us) which is of the flesh, then how will comprehend those things which scripture describes about heavenly things?

So now are we ready to understand that you preach a different gospel other than St. Pauls from the first century? And why the Catholic faith is unchanged these 2000 years. So why do you have to invent a new christian theology that does not correspond to the biblical church in the bible Jesus built on Peter?

Peace be with you**
 
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