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BibleTruth
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Jesus IS God (John 1:1) so of course that wouldn’t include him. Him dying for our sins would have been useless if he was a sinner. That text disqualifies him as a sinner, but it does not disqualify Mary. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary did not sin or that she was a virgin! That’s a manufactured belief…her “sinlessness” and “lifelong virginity” was borne of someone’s imagination.It doesn’t bother you when people misrepresent their sources by not quoting them accurately ?
It doesn’t bother you when people repeat false information, knowing its false?
It doesn’t bother you that you copy and paste information from books and websites that would fail even simple freshman history research paper guidelines for authenticating sources? Can you even distinguish credible sources from hearsay?
The point of my post, was that I find little reason to be interested in her “personal testimony” if she cannot be truthful about verifyable facts. I’m supposed to believe her second hand stories, when she splices two paragraphs from two different chapters together into one statement, which ends up giving a very slanted view of a topic. Very Honest.Why would I trust anything she says?
By the way, you have never apologized for representing the question of an editor asking JPII what he thought about the extravagant titles often given the papacy as a statement made by Pope John Paul II. The question was meant to be dramatic and over the top. The answer was very explanatory and quite humble. It doesn’t bother you to misrepresent people that way?
As far as the professor, he was an Adventist professor teaching ministerial students at an Adventist university. Quite specifically, he would stand in front of his classes and deny that EGW ever copied work from any other source (he admitted to me that he knew that she had done so, he had seen some of the original books). This was before the GC was forced to admit to such copying.
As far as your verse, again, context. If you took it literally, well, then Jesus must have sinned. After all, its says “For **all **have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” There is no exception in there for anyone…
You mentally added the “of course we know Jesus was without sin” Obviously, it was not intended as an absolutely global statement. Jesus was a person who lived a human life. He did not sin. Mary’s sinlessness was not of her own merit or action, it was a unique gift and grace from God due to her unique role in Jesus becoming man. Jesus is truly human, and Mary is his mother in every way. That is saying more about Jesus than it is about Mary. You say Jesus kept the commandments… so that must have included honoring his mother. The Church teaches us to honor her, not worship her. Those who say otherwise haven’t examined the available information.
People misrepresent the Seventh-day Adventist religion all the time, but they don’t have to answer to me in the end, so no, it does not bother me. I have the Word of God to back me, so there’s nothing to be ashamed of or have to explain away. What tickles me is that none of you can dispute the Scriptures I copy and paste…you only seem to focus on anything else I present. That’s the majesty of the Scriptures…they stand the test of time and rebuttal.
If you think I believe that all Seventh-day Adventists will be saved, you’re fooling yourself. I don’t think all members of any religion will be saved. In the end times (that are not too far away) there will be a worldwide unification of all of God’s people but I do NOT believe it will be under the teachings of the blending of Christianity mixed with paganism. I don’t even think there’ll be a denominational name as in those days, there won’t be a need for one…we’ll perhaps be too busy trying to avoid suffering persecution.
I wouldn’t be surprised if JP2 was a lovely man. The blasphemous titles of the papacy were given a long time ago and they still exist today.
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MarysRoses
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So of course… except that is not what it says. Unless you don’t believe Jesus was truly man. You will never find in the Bible a record of Mary having other children, marital relations with her husband, or having sinned. You choose to believe those things based on your interpretations, which are not consistent with millenia of Christian belief.
MarysRoses
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PaulDupre
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Wow, this is exactly what the Mormons do. They come here and deny their doctrines and the source of their beliefs.You have revealed clearly your bias. So many SDA coming here try to minimize and deny that they adhere to all the SDA beliefs.
Why is it that all the adherents of the 19th-century restorationist religions that grew out of the Campbellite movement (Mormons, JWs and SDAs and CoC) are all so ashamed of their roots and their beliefs that they constantly deny them?
Or are they just so accustomed to deceptive tactics that they can’t tell when they are lying anymore?
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Gabriel_of_12
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BibleTruth
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BibleTruth
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BibleTruth
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I follow the Bible…period. I don’t know how many times I have to say it. Yes, I fellowship with Seventh-day Adventists and I’m an active member of my church. Anyone that knows me knows I follow Christ and use the Bible as my written guide.
Please stop trying to paint me into a box because it won’t work. That’s where you are and apparently you can’t get out of it.
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BibleTruth
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Ok, please show me where in the Bible it says she DIDN’T sin or that she DIDN’T have other children.
Matthew 1:25: “But he (Joseph) did not have sexual relations with her (Mary) **until **her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.” Are you really telling me that if someone said a statement like this to you today that you wouldn’t be able to discern that it meant they had relations after Jesus was born? I mean…really??? Do you really need someone else to interpret that text for you?
Matthew 12:46: “As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him.”
Matthew 13:55: “Then they scoffed, “He’s just the carpenter’s son, and we know Mary, his mother, and his brothers—James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas.”
Mark 16:1 (NLT): “Saturday evening, when the Sabbath ended, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome went out and purchased burial spices so they could anoint Jesus’ body.”
Acts 1:12-14: “Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives, a distance of half a mile. When they arrived, they went to the upstairs room of the house where they were staying. Here are the names of those who were present: Peter, John, James, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James (son of Alphaeus), Simon (the Zealot), and Judas (son of James). They all met together and were constantly united in prayer, along with Mary the mother of Jesus, several other women, and the brothers of Jesus (separate from the named apostles).”
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BibleTruth
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You should spend more time on that website…and find the truth again.Can’t even give us a straight quote from your own website. You glossed over quite a lot here…
you say:
The official website of the SDA church says as one of their fundamental beliefs:
adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
- The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. **This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth **which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
You obviously want to bury this bit of information. “This gift is an identifying mark… and is manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White…” “continuing and authoritative source of truth”
Sounds like she did a bit more than encouraging your founders and that her writings continue to be “AUTHORITATIVE” (that is their word, not mine.)
The rest of your list above comes straight from the fundamental beliefs on this website and the writings of EGW.
But thanks!
You have revealed clearly your bias. So many SDA coming here try to minimize and deny that they adhere to all the SDA beliefs.
I didn’t bury anything…I eluded to the website so I knew it was there. There’s that box painting again.
The Spirit of Prophecy is an identifying mark of God’s true church (Revelations 19:10). Ellen G. White had it but that does not mean I’m going to deify her as you perhaps would if she were a Catholic. She was a human being, subject to fallacy the same way as any other human walking the planet today is.
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PaulDupre
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What is the spirit of plagiarism a mark of? That’s the mark Ellen G. White had.
If your religion is founded on the works of a lying criminal plagiarist, what good fruit can it possibly produce? You are exactly like the Mormons who are founded on the works of an adulterous swindler or the JWs who are founded on the works of a con man who sold “magic seeds”.
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Gabriel_of_12
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COLOS
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Heh, I remember that sister White was quoted like evangelicals quote Holy Scripture. Do ya’ll recall that? Her word was certainly authoritative.Can’t even give us a straight quote from your own website. You glossed over quite a lot here…
you say:
The official website of the SDA church says as one of their fundamental beliefs:
adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html
- The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. **This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth **which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)
**You obviously want to bury this bit of information. “This gift is an identifying mark… and is manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White…” “continuing and authoritative source of truth”
Sounds like she did a bit more than encouraging your founders and that her writings continue to be “AUTHORITATIVE” (that is their word, not mine.) **The rest of your list above comes straight from the fundamental beliefs on this website and the writings of EGW.
But thanks!
You have revealed clearly your bias. So many SDA coming here try to minimize and deny that they adhere to all the SDA beliefs.
Saying anything against EGW was tantamount to heresy! Heh, what bondage we were under. I can’t honestly recall experiencing anything in the SDA sect like the Grace and Peace that I experience as a result of prayers like the Rosary and the Liturgy of the Hours. Without the teachings of the Church I would never have known about the ancient way of prayer that is the LotH.
In fact, I recall the teaching that during the great tribulation you had to stand before God without the intercession of Lord Jesus Christ. Any other former Adventists recall that particular teaching? It certainly caused me great distress because it was evident that no one could stand in such a state.
Or even the Shut Door vision? I remember hearing about that when I was young. Of course that happened long before I was born, but still. It confused me as to why the Lord would permanently shut the door of salvation. Convenient that she had another vision about the door being opened when they stopped getting converts to the faith, heh.
Honestly, during a time when women were truly still oppressed EGW gained noteriety and a modicum of power over people who followed her. She definitely assured her place in the history books.
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MarysRoses
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Having to stand without a mediator is from the Great Controversy:
“Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator” The Great Controversy, p. 425
egwtext.whiteestate.org/gc/gc24.html
Straight from the White Estate website… The “official” EGW site, which maintains a “close” relationship with the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.
whiteestate.org/about/estate.asp
As you can see, this isn’t a second hand reference or an unofficial site.
MarysRoses
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COLOS
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What a terrifying teaching!
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BibleTruth
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BibleTruth
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I will continue to follow the Bible as stated numerous times; it’s the only book that has stood up to the test of time and rebuttal.
I know you all who have responded believe what you believe and that is fine. I just pray and believe that there are others who’ve read and will read in silence and may, by the power of the Holy Spirit, feel the truth burning deep inside of them, calling them to serve God and follow Jesus in truth as it is written in God’s Word and not base their theology in the writings of any man (or woman).
In the end, we will all be accountable to God and no one else. Traditions will not save us.
God bless you all.
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VWcrazy
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Traditions like the Bible?
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Patrick_Murebil
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Luke 1: 26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God.”
38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.
Mary Visits Elizabeth
39At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45Blessed is she who has believed that what the Lord has said to her will be accomplished!”
Mary’s Song
46And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
**From now on all generations will call me blessed, **
49for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.
51He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
52He has brought down rulers from their thrones
but has lifted up the humble.
53He has filled the hungry with good things
but has sent the rich away empty.
54He has helped his servant Israel,
remembering to be merciful
55to Abraham and his descendants forever,
even as he said to our fathers.”
56Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home
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Patrick_Murebil
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Yes, I for one remember all that you mention above, and feel the same way you do now about the blessings of grace which I never experienced so powerfully as I do now. Praying the Rosary is praying the Gospel…it is a wonderful experience!! Of course a person need to understand it.
I remember so often saying and hearing so many others say:
“Mrs. White said…”
“Ellen White said…”
“Sister White Said…”
“The Spirit of Prophecy says…”
A very important authority for SDAs.
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