That is, the Church in North America… In the more rural “white” dioceses of the interior, the churches are relatively bareboned and little heed is given to icons and statues. Here in Vancouver we have a large Filipino population and they are constantly lighting candles, kneeling before statues of Our Lady, kissing statues, etc. The Anglo element of our Church has lost much of that Catholic sacramental (external) passion.
I’m also uncomfortable with the use of the term “hyper-Marian devotion”, as if it’s something negative. St. Louis de Montfort (if I recall correctly) once pointed out that it was impossible to “love Mary too much”. Some of the attitudes expressed on this thread are a reminder of how much Protestant ideas have infiltrated the Church.
No Mary, no Church.
I have to agree with you Jesus telling someone “today my mother is the ark” sounds bizarre. There are many people today receiving visions they believe are from Heaven. I doubt most of them are true. I love to say the Rosary and I believe Mary is Our Heavenly Mother. She sends us graces from Heaven from her Son to heal us and bring us closer to Him. We go to her for help to be closer to her Son and we are to pray for the conversion of sinners, this is what Mary asks of us. This is what I was taught to believe. Jesus Christ saved us by His death on the cross. His death brings us salvation. Mary intercedes for us and helps us to obtain repentance and purification, by repentance we become closer to her Son Jesus Christ. This idea of Mary being the ark sounds strange, it is not in agreement with my understanding, it is something I will need to think about and pray about for more understanding.
It may be that “my mother the ark” sounds unfamiliar, though it would not IMHO be inconsistent with much that was written by St Louis de Montfort, or St. Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church. The bishop is not saying he agrees with it, he is in effect saying it is not inconsistent with revealed truth. The problem is that Mary is so rarely mentioned, let alone her role explained, in the US or Western countries, that a lot which would have been quite understandable to my parents or childhood pastor strikes me as unfamiliar.
I believe that there is an certain element of hyperbole in your statement. Certainly, Mary holds a singular position in the mystery of salvation but traditional teaching has always been that Christ founded the Church upon Peter the apostle who was given the keys to the kingdom. It was to the apostles that Christ gave the mandate to forgive sins and spread the Gospel to the corners of the world. To say that it is because of Mary that we have the Church is nuanced at best and just plain wrong at worst.
The apostles were the first bishops of the Church. We know from scripture that Christ spoke those words, “he who rejects you rejects me” to them. Nowhere in scripture did Christ say the same about Mary.
I never said that we should or even can reject Our Lady and still be a good Catholic. But I also think that the pendulum shouldn’t swing too far the other way in trying to elevate her position in the Church. Mary has a unique role in the communion of saints. I do not think it necessary to try and extrapolate her position into something else that requires highly nuanced descriptions to avoid overstating things.
You do know God could have picked someone else to bear His Son?
Yah, “hyper-Marian devotion” is a perjorative. It is to shame people into not talking about Her so much. It was St. Maximilian Kolbe who said that you can’t love Our Lady too much. The same Saint had said that you won’t have Jesus for a brother, if you won’t have Mary for a mother. So saying that rejecting Mary is rejecting Jesus, is not at all inconsistent. Anything else is semantics, disguised as intellectual discourse. This is why I will never celebrate Protestant influences on the Church. It should be despised. To some Catholics, She was just some nice replaceable lady who gave birth to Jesus; however they don’t consider that God the Father was pleased with Her to the point where He chose Her, to bear His only Son. She was full of grace, and the Lord is with Her, as the archangel Gabriel had said to Her. God was always with Her and He always will be. She wouldn’t have been the Chosen Mother, that He, God personally, the alpha and the omega, would choose to lean on in His infancy, otherwise. Consider that God, Himself, the greatest, most powerful being in the universe, chose Mary, and delightfully so, then, why won’t you?
I’m also uncomfortable with the use of the term “hyper-Marian devotion”, as if it’s something negative. St. Louis de Montfort (if I recall correctly) once pointed out that it was impossible to “love Mary too much”. Some of the attitudes expressed on this thread are a reminder of how much Protestant ideas have infiltrated the Church.
Did Jesus say, “My mother is the way, the truth and the life?” No! He said, “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life!”
Yes. And Jesus still chose Her for a mother. You didn’t debunk anything.
No, it isn’t. I have seen people who suggest that Mary is the Holy Spirit. You cannot deny that there are some who carry Marian devotion to extremes.
Choose her for what, exactly? Mary belongs at the top of the list of the communion of saints. What more do you wish to give to her?
You’re gonna have to tell me how people are suggesting that Our Lady is the Holy Spirit. She glorifies God, unlike most people, She won’t take any glory for Herself. You say Mary, She says God. I also find it interesting that you responded to me in that kind of way, as if it isn’t clear what I mean, when it perfectly is. I choose Her for my Mother. I also find it interesting that you won’t answer my charge of semantics. Why so defensive towards someone who will actually defend the Mother of Christ?
However He didn’t say His mother was the path to salvation.
grow in Christ or be annihilated. I advise my children to stay away from the somber night, for the dawn is going to appear soon. While you wait, let yourselves be prepared by this mother. Introduce your hearts into the Ark which Jesus has sent. Read Galatians 4:3-11.”
And you still didn’t debunk anything I had said.
My point: We have Jesus saying one thing and this apparition another.
Except they don’t contradict. And if anything the apparitions are consistent with what the Saints have been saying. You still haven’t debunked anything.