New report from ireland

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Like many in Ireland, I drifted away from the faith over the years. It tends to happen in secular countries, and Ireland today is the poster child for the culture (such as it is) of secular liberalism. Even away from the Church, the echoing emptyness of secularism was beginning to sicken me as I grew older. I’ve watched silently as the Church came under increasing attack over the child abuse scandal. In truth, there was no way to defend the charges - they were true, after all, and even though I knew that many of those liberals on the anti-Catholic bandwagon didn’t really give a damn about the children they claimed to be outraged over (to them, it was just a stick to beat religion with), still the Church had brought it on itself. If the bishops had come down like a ton of lead on the first child abuser they became aware of, they would have killed this scandal (and the pain of many innocents) dead in its tracks. But they didn’t, instead chosing to cover up and keep silent, disheartening many good Catholics as the story came out in dribs and drabs, and giving the rest an excuse to leave.

Up until now, the secularists (in fairness) have stayed within just boundaries. They haven’t made it an anti-Catholic thing per se, they have confined themselves to representing the interests of the victims and they have adhered to a moral ground (albeit a secular one) which the bishops have abandoned. But now they’ve crossed a line. This is a straight assault on a minority (for committed Catholics today are a minority in Ireland, despite the nominally massive majority). They’ve edged out of the territory of tolerance and have entered the ground of harrassment. After that comes oppression, and finally outright persecution. We are, of course, a very long way from that and it’s not by any means certain the government will continue down this road, but for me it’s a heads-up. I’m returning to my faith, poor as it is, and hope others will do likewise.

The Church in Ireland has fallen a very long way, much of it its own doing, but enough is enough. I hope when this is over, what comes out the other side will be a beacon that will shame every secularist in this country.
 
The blood of martyrs is the nourishment of the Church. Pray that if it comes to it the priests of Ireland may obtain the grace of the martyr’s crown.

Until then this act by the government, even the proposing of such an act, must be answered. Rosaries, rosaries and more rosaries.
 
Like many in Ireland, I drifted away from the faith over the years. It tends to happen in secular countries, and Ireland today is the poster child for the culture (such as it is) of secular liberalism. Even away from the Church, the echoing emptyness of secularism was beginning to sicken me as I grew older. I’ve watched silently as the Church came under increasing attack over the child abuse scandal. In truth, there was no way to defend the charges - they were true, after all, and even though I knew that many of those liberals on the anti-Catholic bandwagon didn’t really give a damn about the children they claimed to be outraged over (to them, it was just a stick to beat religion with), still the Church had brought it on itself. If the bishops had come down like a ton of lead on the first child abuser they became aware of, they would have killed this scandal (and the pain of many innocents) dead in its tracks. But they didn’t, instead chosing to cover up and keep silent, disheartening many good Catholics as the story came out in dribs and drabs, and giving the rest an excuse to leave.

Up until now, the secularists (in fairness) have stayed within just boundaries. They haven’t made it an anti-Catholic thing per se, they have confined themselves to representing the interests of the victims and they have adhered to a moral ground (albeit a secular one) which the bishops have abandoned. But now they’ve crossed a line. This is a straight assault on a minority (for committed Catholics today are a minority in Ireland, despite the nominally massive majority). They’ve edged out of the territory of tolerance and have entered the ground of harrassment. After that comes oppression, and finally outright persecution. We are, of course, a very long way from that and it’s not by any means certain the government will continue down this road, but for me it’s a heads-up. I’m returning to my faith, poor as it is, and hope others will do likewise.

The Church in Ireland has fallen a very long way, much of it its own doing, but enough is enough. I hope when this is over, what comes out the other side will be a beacon that will shame every secularist in this country.
👍👍

Welcome to CAF
 
The law could find out if the child abuser was caught and admitted that he told it to a priest in confession.
How? By personal testimony of the child abuser? Seeing as how no one else would have heard what was said, that’s all they’d have to go on, and being a child abuser, his word would be immediately in doubt. Plus by this point in time, the abuser would have had to already admit it, since he can’t say what he told the priest without actually confessing. So why bother asking for the priest’s testimony if you’ve already got and admission of guilt from the perpetrator?
 
What would this even accomplish?

Anything told to the priest in the confessional would be hearsay. Inadmissible in U.S. courts, and likely Irish ones as well. Also, the priest could easily say that such information was never admitted to them in the confessional. The courts would have nothing to go on but their word.
There are such things as “mandatory reporters.” Usually they are teachers, social workers, etc. If someone confides some kind of sexual abuse to them then they must by law report it. If it later comes out that someone the law deems a “mandatory reporter” had information but did not report it then that person is liable to criminal charges.
 
Surprised at Kenny - hes normally a straight-laced catholic, though he has a point and the rule of law needs to be applied.
I’d be worried about the influence of Labour, with their doctranaire atheist leader Eamonn Gilmore, an ex communist, who is the Vice Prime minister. Labour are loving this as it allows them to pursue their agenda
 
The church was a bulwark–against external hostility, mainly the English, who greatly enjanced the power of the church in Ireland by persecuting it. This has largely dissipated. Ireland is England’s greatest importer (Guinness?) and the English are the largest group of tourists visiting Ireland and greatly preferred to, say, the Germans.

Unfortunately, the greatest damage to a nation can be its own people. This has happened to the US, and is now happening in Ireland.
 
Sometimes I just wish that the Vatican would take a more firm stance on the abuse issues. If they responded as quickly and as harshly as they did with the current conflict in China, then the Church wouldn’t be facing this problem on such an enormous scale.

I understand that the extent of the abuse is minimal compared to the total number of priests. But even if there were five cases of cover-up, that’s five times too many! The Church, as an political institution and a religious instititution, needs to do something to get back to its former glory.

It breaks my heart to hear new reports on the abuse cases. :sad_yes:
 
A large majority of Priests unfortunately, over more than one generation failed to preach on moral issues and the reality of sin and Satan.
At 45 years old mostly as a daily Mass goer I have only heard one sermon on any moral issue (in this case porn) that I remember, that was 33 years ago from a visiting priest on mission. That is until I recently started attending a Mass offered in the extraordinary rite.

I wonder if there’s any link between ignoring the issue of sin and succumbing to it’s power in various ways.

We need prayers over here, lots of them. Things have gotten very bad, we have many “nice” Priests that are very, very badly educated.

There are many glimmers of light, we know the Faith will prevail with Gods help.
 
I have the most beautiful and amazing response from my fellow diocesan priests on this issue. ALL (10) have unanimously stated: “I would joyfully give my life as a sacrifice to defend the seal of Confession”. Alleluia. Deo Gratias. Oremus pro Invicem. “This is My Body, given up for you.” God bless you all.
May God continue to bless and protect you all. Praying for you and all of the Church in Ireland.
 
Like many in Ireland, I drifted away from the faith over the years. It tends to happen in secular countries, and Ireland today is the poster child for the culture (such as it is) of secular liberalism. Even away from the Church, the echoing emptyness of secularism was beginning to sicken me as I grew older. I’ve watched silently as the Church came under increasing attack over the child abuse scandal. In truth, there was no way to defend the charges - they were true, after all, and even though I knew that many of those liberals on the anti-Catholic bandwagon didn’t really give a damn about the children they claimed to be outraged over (to them, it was just a stick to beat religion with), still the Church had brought it on itself. If the bishops had come down like a ton of lead on the first child abuser they became aware of, they would have killed this scandal (and the pain of many innocents) dead in its tracks. But they didn’t, instead chosing to cover up and keep silent, disheartening many good Catholics as the story came out in dribs and drabs, and giving the rest an excuse to leave.

Up until now, the secularists (in fairness) have stayed within just boundaries. They haven’t made it an anti-Catholic thing per se, they have confined themselves to representing the interests of the victims and they have adhered to a moral ground (albeit a secular one) which the bishops have abandoned. But now they’ve crossed a line. This is a straight assault on a minority (for committed Catholics today are a minority in Ireland, despite the nominally massive majority). They’ve edged out of the territory of tolerance and have entered the ground of harrassment. After that comes oppression, and finally outright persecution. We are, of course, a very long way from that and it’s not by any means certain the government will continue down this road, but for me it’s a heads-up. I’m returning to my faith, poor as it is, and hope others will do likewise.

The Church in Ireland has fallen a very long way, much of it its own doing, but enough is enough. I hope when this is over, what comes out the other side will be a beacon that will shame every secularist in this country.
Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I will keep you in my prayers. Would you mind clearing up a few things for me. Is this drastic proposal in response to the lack of prosecution for priests who abuse children. Have they had to answer to authorities for breaking laws? What has been going on in your country in regards to the legalities. Do the people who are proposing this legislation have a precident for doing it. Wow what a situation.
 
The seal of confession is inviolable.

In my opinion, priests ought to insist upon anonymous confession only.
Face to face confession is trouble waiting to happen.
That would be practically very difficult or even impossible for many priests. Many priests have only a limited number of other priests whom they get a chance to confess to, and they generally know each others’ voices.
 
That would be practically very difficult or even impossible for many priests. Many priests have only a limited number of other priests whom they get a chance to confess to, and they generally know each others’ voices.
Only a very small percentage of people who confess child abuse woulds be priests. :eek: It’s not the priests that need to be reported - it’s the abusers. If the Church, at least in countries where the seal of Confession is being attacked, mandated anonymous Confession, virtually no priest would know with certainty who was on the other side of the screen. Even if a voice is familiar, unless the priest hearing the Confession is a voice recognition expert, there would always be some doubt. You can’t be required to report a guess, even if it’s a good one.

At the extreme, parishes could use technology to ensure that each Confession is truly anonymous.
 
Pax et Bonum. I am a Priest in Ireland.

“For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God,* who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification* comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing”. (Ga. 2:19-21)

I would joyfully suffer the cross for never ever breaking the seal of Confession.

God bless you all.
Welcome Father to this forum, I would like to say a short prayer for the Chuch in Ireland. O St.Michael,Defender of the Church, by the power of God please defend and protect the Church in Ireland and worldwide from all persecution in these trying times. I make this prayer through Christ our Lord.Amen.
 
Like many in Ireland, I drifted away from the faith over the years. It tends to happen in secular countries, and Ireland today is the poster child for the culture (such as it is) of secular liberalism. Even away from the Church, the echoing emptyness of secularism was beginning to sicken me as I grew older. I’ve watched silently as the Church came under increasing attack over the child abuse scandal. In truth, there was no way to defend the charges - they were true, after all, and even though I knew that many of those liberals on the anti-Catholic bandwagon didn’t really give a damn about the children they claimed to be outraged over (to them, it was just a stick to beat religion with), still the Church had brought it on itself. If the bishops had come down like a ton of lead on the first child abuser they became aware of, they would have killed this scandal (and the pain of many innocents) dead in its tracks. But they didn’t, instead chosing to cover up and keep silent, disheartening many good Catholics as the story came out in dribs and drabs, and giving the rest an excuse to leave.

Up until now, the secularists (in fairness) have stayed within just boundaries. They haven’t made it an anti-Catholic thing per se, they have confined themselves to representing the interests of the victims and they have adhered to a moral ground (albeit a secular one) which the bishops have abandoned. But now they’ve crossed a line. This is a straight assault on a minority (for committed Catholics today are a minority in Ireland, despite the nominally massive majority). They’ve edged out of the territory of tolerance and have entered the ground of harrassment. After that comes oppression, and finally outright persecution. We are, of course, a very long way from that and it’s not by any means certain the government will continue down this road, but for me it’s a heads-up. I’m returning to my faith, poor as it is, and hope others will do likewise.

The Church in Ireland has fallen a very long way, much of it its own doing, but enough is enough. I hope when this is over, what comes out the other side will be a beacon that will shame every secularist in this country.
The Lord Jesus said in the Bible that the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church.I beieve this wholeheartedly, The Church in Irelend would not only survive but thrive.I pray to the Blessed Virgin that through Her intercession that Jesus Christ would give the Church in Ireland special graces to persevere and thrive. Amen
 
O St.Michael,Defender of the Church, by the power of God please defend and protect the Church in Ireland and worldwide from all persecution in these trying times. I make this prayer through Christ our Lord.Amen.
Amen
 
The facilitators of the new hostility to the church in Ireland are the attitudes of the hierarchy themselves, especially duplicitous characters like bishop Magee.
It pains me to say it but they are causing many to lose faith. They, more than anyone need our prayers.
 
It seemed clear to me that he was referencing the bishops placing canon law ahead of the civil law on this matter.
I shall research the timing of the Vatican working document and what was made of it. The bishops asked for compliance with civil law in so that is a factor. The social services said when this new measure was proposed to be put into law that they would be swamped with cases and need funds that are not available. We know that most abuse is in the home not from clergy and other prfessionals are guilty asa well.
**** The VATICAN deals with governments worldwide and is not going to send out something that flies in the face of common sense and invite scorn. It did not hold or bind so the time-line may have added confusion.
The fall-off in attendance was mainly confined to Dublin a huge archdiocese. I saw over the years a lessening of atttendance due to the economic rise even before the inflated CELTIC TIGER years - and a lot of international travel and exchange with other nations due to emigration and tourism and the general culture of doing one’s own thing.
I repeat my image of the hatchet and the scalpel. Even in the USA every priest was/is? under suspicion just as every Arab and Puerto Rican and black males are in many people’s minds.
 
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