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Norseman82
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Even if the “ride” leads to hell?
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shannyk
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Norseman I don’t think that jr even remotely suggested that.
By definition a real man would be Christ centered and be aiming for the exact opposite.
By definition a real man would be Christ centered and be aiming for the exact opposite.
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jrsmith
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Exactly.
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aball1035
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No because no “bad boy” types can ever be “real men”. However, “good guys” can be “real men” or not, but at least they have the chance.
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EvelynEVF
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If I read jrsmith correctly, the point is that a man, or woman, for that matter, should be busy pursuing Christ and life in general, not putting life on hold while expecting someone to appear to complete him/her.
If we don’t view ourselves as complete in Christ already, then we are a walking bullseye for someone to take advantage of. And I don’t want to be yoked to a man who looks to me for completion, because he will ask for everything I have and then demand more, because I cannot complete him any more than his pet cat can. BTDT.
If we don’t view ourselves as complete in Christ already, then we are a walking bullseye for someone to take advantage of. And I don’t want to be yoked to a man who looks to me for completion, because he will ask for everything I have and then demand more, because I cannot complete him any more than his pet cat can. BTDT.
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aball1035
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It’s true that those guys are hard to find, however I feel that the girls who go after those guys are hard to find as well. Whenever I see a group, the girls never want the good guy with the backbone, but the bad guy. Just what I’ve noticed
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EvelynEVF
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Alex, at least from what I’ve seen in groups, this may be because the “bad boys” are actually interacting with the girls. The good ones are often too quiet to compete with that. The girls may only be trying to be friendly, responding to what was initiated.
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whatevergirl
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I* agree…and I think while it’s ‘natural’ as God made us, to wish to have companionship, and marriage with another person…it’s also important to be content in all things in all circumstances. I think that people who are bitter, or downtrodden because of their singlehood, stand a lesser chance of finding a suitable partner. I also wanted to say that you’re in my prayers, I’m sorry things did not work out with your husband, and that you were treated badly by him. God bless you, and praying that you eventually find someone, some day, who treats you with love and kindness. :hug1:*
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Norseman82
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Is it even possible to be “complete in Christ” here on this earth? Isn’t that what purgatory is supposed to be for?
I honestly think we are setting impossible standards here, because if we expect everyone to be “complete in Christ” few, if any, would qualify to be married.
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whatevergirl
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Norseman, meaning…not seeking something outside of Christ to complete us. We should be content just being close to Christ…that’s what I think she meant.
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shannyk
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I guess that depends on the definition of bad boy, really. I’m not quite sure what it means to people on this thread for discussion purposes.
Some saints were probably considered bad boys in their day because they went against the grain or had unpopular ideas, or associated with the ‘wrong’ people. Those are my kind of bad guys.
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EvelynEVF
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Norseman, I’ll reword for clarity. We need to view ourselves as only being able to become complete in Christ. The first time around I did word it as a protestant 
showing my roots.
I don’t think this is an impossible or inappropriate standard. Until I can live with Christ alone as my sufficiency, I am susceptible to looking to a human being to fix me or complete me or validate me. Lots of people get married for those reasons, and some do make it work, but I think it’s shaky ground.
There is an attractive confidence about people who know who they are and Whose they are and begin relationships from that place, rather than insecurity and neediness. And of course there are a zillion shades of grey in between; I’m not trying to create a dichotomy.
I think I’m observing the men I am able now to befriend without any weird expectations, and they see friendship as something they choose to share, instead of something they want to possess to make themselves look or feel better. Don’t we do that? We love being with certain people because they make us feel good about ourselves. That’s not a bad thing, but there needs to be a strong outward/upward focus, too.
showing my roots.I don’t think this is an impossible or inappropriate standard. Until I can live with Christ alone as my sufficiency, I am susceptible to looking to a human being to fix me or complete me or validate me. Lots of people get married for those reasons, and some do make it work, but I think it’s shaky ground.
There is an attractive confidence about people who know who they are and Whose they are and begin relationships from that place, rather than insecurity and neediness. And of course there are a zillion shades of grey in between; I’m not trying to create a dichotomy.
I think I’m observing the men I am able now to befriend without any weird expectations, and they see friendship as something they choose to share, instead of something they want to possess to make themselves look or feel better. Don’t we do that? We love being with certain people because they make us feel good about ourselves. That’s not a bad thing, but there needs to be a strong outward/upward focus, too.
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SeekingWisdom
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But you have said that the less-than-perfect are not fit for marriage.
We are all imperfect in God’s eyes. ALL of us, in one way or another.
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Norseman82
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Please show me where I said that. Please point to a specific post that I may refer to and review.But you have said that the less-than-perfect are not fit for marriage.
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Norseman82
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Being “complete in Christ” does not mean you can do without food, water, clothing, etc. And yes, that even means marital companionship (excepting those who have discerned they have a celibate vocation), and here is why:Norseman, I’ll reword for clarity. We need to view ourselves as only being able to become complete in Christ. The first time around I did word it as a protestant
I don’t think this is an impossible or inappropriate standard. Until I can live with Christ alone as my sufficiency, I am susceptible to looking to a human being to fix me or complete me or validate me. Lots of people get married for those reasons, and some do make it work, but I think it’s shaky ground.
There is an attractive confidence about people who know who they are and Whose they are and begin relationships from that place, rather than insecurity and neediness. And of course there are a zillion shades of grey in between; I’m not trying to create a dichotomy.
I think I’m observing the men I am able now to befriend without any weird expectations, and they see friendship as something they choose to share, instead of something they want to possess to make themselves look or feel better. Don’t we do that? We love being with certain people because they make us feel good about ourselves. That’s not a bad thing, but there needs to be a strong outward/upward focus, too.
Remember, it was God Himself Who said “it is not good for the man to be alone” (Genesis 2), and when Christ referred to the eunuchs for the kingdom He said that not everyone could accept that teaching, let those accept it who could. Paul in 1 Cor. 7 mentioned that it is better to marry than burn and that to avoid immorality everyone should have their own spouse. Also, CCC 1603 mentions that the vocation to marriage is placed into our very nature, coming from the hand of the Creator.
I understand some of you are women who are wounded and still bitter over your divorces, but the OP is not, so please do not rain on his (our) parade.
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whatevergirl
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*Norseman, first, I’m married, happily…and not divorced. Second, you need to reread through the thread…you’re answering something that I didn’t say. The posters who are saying to be complete in Christ, are NOT suggesting to become complacent. I am not sure why you debate this point a lot…maybe we are just not understanding where you’re coming from. 
And for what it’s worth, no one is attacking you. Everyone is giving their opinions, and frankly, they are really uplifting. You telling women that they are ‘bitter’ from divorce, is uncalled for. *
And for what it’s worth, no one is attacking you. Everyone is giving their opinions, and frankly, they are really uplifting. You telling women that they are ‘bitter’ from divorce, is uncalled for. *
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Norseman82
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I know that you are not divorced, which is why I stated “some of you”.*Norseman, first, I’m married, happily…and not divorced. Second, you need to reread through the thread…you’re answering something that I didn’t say. The posters who are saying to be complete in Christ, are NOT suggesting to become complacent. I am not sure why you debate this point a lot…maybe we are just not understanding where you’re coming from.
And for what it’s worth, no one is attacking you. Everyone is giving their opinions, and frankly, they are really uplifting. You telling women that they are ‘bitter’ from divorce, is uncalled for. *
But I do not retract my statement about women bitter from divorce, and here is why: I’ve been to Catholic singles and young adult events, and I have seen the “bitter crabby divorced women” set the agenda.
As to where I’m coming from, if I could handle lifelong celibacy, there’s a chance I’d be wearing a collar by now.
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whatevergirl
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I see. But, in* this *thread, I don’t really see anyone (women) behaving bitterly?
So…you should retract it, BECAUSE it doesn’t ft with the women in this thread. 
I mean, I thought Evelyn made a beautiful point about being complete in Christ, nothing bitter about what she said…
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chevalier
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Does it have to be felonies?
The bad boy persona or style. To people, it can mean anything from being mouthy and somewhat of an outsider to being an abuser or otherwise running afoul of the law. By some definitions, a nerd would be a bad boy, one’d be a bad boy for flirting or for drinking a couple shots. For some people, bad boy connects with a really nasty fella, like a wifebeater or something. I don’t have a clear cut definition. My distinction runs along the lines of being nice to people or not being nice to people. A decision not to be nice to people steps on my toe and makes me see someone as a member of the bad boy family. Obviously, a suave seducer is also a boy, but what he doesn’t isn’t being nice to people (using a pretence of being nice in order to use people for selfish goals is not nice), so my distinction stands. I could expand on this, but I think this is enough anyway. You should have a picture by now.
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EvelynEVF
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Norseman, I’m not bitter, and I’m sorry if it sounds that way to you. I don’t hijack singles events
All I’m trying to generalize is that men who give off the vibe of desperation or neediness, who are not content with who they are, are going to be repulsive to a lot of single women.
If you (generalized) think that getting married is some kind of magic wand, your motivations are not what they ought to be. It’s got to be a mutual thing. I guess I’m a bit freaked out about the idea that someone would marry rather than burn, such that a wife is more a remedy for concupiscence than a partner in all of life. I think it’s stretching Paul’s meaning.
When I was a Protestant, I spent a year at seminary. Many of the young men there seemed to view marriage as a right, as part of a package deal along with their ordination as pastors. It was as if the women weren’t really individuals, but more a target or an acquisition or a goal. It was all about achieving marriage, rather than helping each other get to heaven.
Am I making sense? Women here sometimes post about boyfriends who get all possessive, and that isn’t love; it’s control. I think if motivations for marriage aren’t pure, if one is looking for a spouse to do too much, there is a good chance that the relationship will evolve into some sort of demanding more than is appropriate, rather than a loving partnership.
If a man is secure in his identity in Christ, he won’t be looking for a woman to create an identity for him, as so-and-so’s husband.
This may well have nothing to do with you, but I stand by my point.
All I’m trying to generalize is that men who give off the vibe of desperation or neediness, who are not content with who they are, are going to be repulsive to a lot of single women.
If you (generalized) think that getting married is some kind of magic wand, your motivations are not what they ought to be. It’s got to be a mutual thing. I guess I’m a bit freaked out about the idea that someone would marry rather than burn, such that a wife is more a remedy for concupiscence than a partner in all of life. I think it’s stretching Paul’s meaning.
When I was a Protestant, I spent a year at seminary. Many of the young men there seemed to view marriage as a right, as part of a package deal along with their ordination as pastors. It was as if the women weren’t really individuals, but more a target or an acquisition or a goal. It was all about achieving marriage, rather than helping each other get to heaven.
Am I making sense? Women here sometimes post about boyfriends who get all possessive, and that isn’t love; it’s control. I think if motivations for marriage aren’t pure, if one is looking for a spouse to do too much, there is a good chance that the relationship will evolve into some sort of demanding more than is appropriate, rather than a loving partnership.
If a man is secure in his identity in Christ, he won’t be looking for a woman to create an identity for him, as so-and-so’s husband.
This may well have nothing to do with you, but I stand by my point.
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