No. Black Lives Matter Is Not Trying to Destroy Your Nuclear Family

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No, I will not knee-jerk “defend the cop” But I will when it’s warranted - and it is warranted here.

There’s a reason most officers who shoot people either don’t get brought up on charges or get exonerated - namely, legally they’re not guilty. If an officer is not guilty, neither you not I have basis to parade around accusing them of basically trying to kill suspects.

As between police officers who encounter suspects and the suspects themselves, I give the Officers the benefit of the doubt - and the law does too.
 
blackforest said:
But the police officers, as employees of the System, shouldn’t make bad choices of shooting and strangling people for non-capital offenses.

I’m curious why you went off on a tirade about rap music. Do you think all black people are fans of it?
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No they shouldn’t. And the numbers don’t reflect that rogue cops area a rising pandemic against the black community. Cries of “defund the police“ aren’t meant to deal with bad cops, but are signs of an ideology that has NOTHING to do with bettering the black community or any community.

My comment in reference to hip hop wasn’t about African Americans only. I said it was about a cultural influence that reaches far beyond the black community. It’s hard to listen to the propaganda of the BLM movement when many of its supporters are those who rap about killing others.

And it’s not just an issue of music. Many celebrities and prominent sports figures love to grandstand about the injustice at the hands of law enforcement, but they haven’t done squat to address the crime and killing by members within their own black community.

There are sound bites galore about Trevon Martin, Michael Brown and George Floyd. Where’s the outrage for the dozens of nameless kids killed in drive by shootings???
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
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VonDerTann:
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LeafByNiggle:
The group that says that does not represent all of Black Lives Matter,
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–The “group” you refer to is BLM itself.
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Yes, the “group” you refer to is organization named Black Lives Matter, which has no authoritative control over the movement, which is also called Black Lives Matter, but which is not beholding to that organization.
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Here is the problem with that logic…

When people donate money to Black Lives Matter, it goes to that “group”

When you want to read the mission statement of Black Lives Matter, the website belongs to that “group.”

When people say “I support Black Lives Matter” what are they talking about? The simple and obvious idea that black people matter (because of course they do)? Are they supporting the militant groups who are causing damage and threatening people?

Here’s a video of Black Lives Matter terrorizing McDonald’s staff in Pittsburgh where the manager and most of the employees are black.

WARNING: the video has bad language is very disturbing to watch.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1303084877688926210

You will notice that there is even a witch (with a book of spells in her backpack) in that group. Besides all the demonic things going on here, this group of “Black Lives Matter” are arguing and screaming at fellow Black people (the manager and a Black customer)
 
VonDerTann said:
The fact remains BLM says it wants to “disrupt” the “nuclear family.” They could have said a million positive things in lieu thereof. For starters, how about, “we condemn black fathers who make babies then leave,” “we condemn the culture of fatherless homes,” etc. Nope - BLM wants to “disrupt” the nuclear family, AKA have a network of “aunties” raise kids because the dads have vanished.
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The debate on this has been going on for a while, yet it would take only five minutes to edit that sentence off their page. Until they do that, arguents that say “oh they don’t mean that” are just platitudes.
 
VonDerTann said:
Nope - BLM wants to “disrupt” the nuclear family, AKA have a network of “aunties” raise kids because the dads have vanished.
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They would likely claim the dads have vanished because the white patriarchal society either incarcerated them, killed them (including the police killing them), or somehow made them unable to serve as fathers.
 
What’s missing is ANY sense of personal responsibility.

What I mean isn’t just the lack of a statement about fathers - it’s also, for example, the lack of something on the site teaching, say, “your rights and responsibilities if stopped by the police,” telling folks that they should obey commands; not mouth off or reach into their pockets suddenly, etc. Want to marry that with “you have a right to remain silent,” “you should immediately ask for an attorney,” etc.? Fine. But a LOT of incidents (including George Floyd) are caused or escalated by the targets of stops not responding appropriately or safely to police questioning.
 
Well, in fairness many of them have been brutalized for no reason, or even when they cooperate nicely.

I’m aware of black men and women who are themselves law enforcement officers who worry about driving around in areas where the police don’t know or recognize that they are a LEO. Obviously these folks know exactly how to act and they’re still nervous. I remember a fellow lawyer at a biglaw firm where the salaries were ridiculously high and she would get followed around by the security in stores because she was black. I can see where it would get annoying after a while, although fighting the police is always a dumb thing to do.
 
phil19034 said:
Here is the problem with that logic…

When people donate money to Black Lives Matter, it goes to that “group”
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But they don’t have to donate to “that group”. In Minnesota they can donate to Showing Up for Racial Justice, Blackout Collective, Color of Change, Organization for Black Struggle, and many others. Plus they don’t really have to donate anything. Showing up at the protests is more effective than donating money. That’s what most supporters do - just show up.
 
blackforest said:
I mostly just wanted to address your point about meaningful action vs. showing up with a cardboard sign. A lot of people showing up with cardboard signs may also be attending city council meetings and contacting their elected officials; we’re not in any position to make assumptions about people.
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Oh, I entirely agree with you that unless we are personally acquainted or at least familiar with people, we can’t possibly know what they are accomplishing.

However…our city is small enough that the mayor and the alderpeople (and a third of our alderpeople are African American and Hispanic) KNOW which citizens attend the City Council meetings and make presentations on a regular basis, and they also personally KNOW the people who are active in their wards. They did NOT know any of the protestors, and that’s why they urged these protestors to go through the proper channels and start attending the City Council meetings and making presentations and suggestions for change that may be developed into actual policy that the Council can vote on.

I don’t know our mayor personally, but I play piano for his mother’s song group, and consider her a friend. One of our alderwomen, a lawyer with advanced degrees and years of experience in court, lives in the same house that her African American family has owned for over 100 years. She is an amazing person who has worked her entire life to help her fellow African Americans, and is, IMO, the most intelligent and well-spoken person on the City Council. Another alderwoman is someone that I consider a personal friend, as we worked together at one of the Park District facilities in our city. Yet another alderman was the youth sponsor of my high school church youth group (Evangelical Protestant back then). ALL of the alderpeople bring talent, brains, energy, and a love for our city and its people to the Council–they are not a group of rich white men who are content to leave everything the way it is. They work hard to help the people in their districts and to make sure that the entire city is a good place for EVERYONE to live.

I suspect that a large group of the protestors were/are not from our city at all, but have come into the city from Chicago.
 
VonDerTann said:
Read about…what? Some Wikipedia site? Sorry leaf you’re the one with time for 22,000 posts. Tell us what you’d like us to take from the site.

OK, BLM is decentralized. There’s a stark difference between that and “BLM doesn’t really exist; there’s nothing in particular they believe, and if I don’t like what they advocate, hey, that’s Ok, they don’t really advocate it.”

—except that they do exist; their website says what they believe; and their leadership admits they’re Marxists.
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I may be relying too early in this thread but I wonder if you’d understand things better by what happened in the late 60’s early 70’s.

When Vietnam started becoming a heated topic, lots of people formed various groups to protest the war in Vietnam. There was no large organized headquarters for protests to end the war.

Abby Hoffman and a group of his followers created an organization and claimed themselves as the leaders of the movement. Abby and friends were Marxist and not the most congenial people but the declared themselves the mouth pieces of all the anti war protests. Suddenly, everyone was claiming that ALL Vietnam protestors were under the leadership of Abby and gang.

We weren’t. We were local bunches of kids opposed to the war. Abby didn’t represent any of us…even though we were labeled thus.

This is BLM in a nutshell. The organization named BLM has hijacked all those local groups and acts like they represent all of them. They don’t. The problem is the term Black Lives Matter is popular and recognizable. Honestly, it would be better if the individual local groups could come up with a new name so they could dissociate from the Marxist BLM group, but, it’s too late. They hijacked the movement, act like they speak for everyone and the media has bought into it as well…especially the right wing media.

I, too, condemn this BLM organization as they don’t represent the vast majority of BLM protesters. How can they do so now? No one will even let them or even try to see what’s happened. Ask a BLM sign carrier if they are Marxist and want to destroy the nuclear family. They’ll look at you like your nuts!
 
LeafByNiggle said:
But they don’t have to donate to “that group”.
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I know that. But that group is blacklivesmatter.com

When people want to learn about Black Lives Matter, they are going to checkout the website.

These people on the website claim to be the founders.

And when corporations decided to donate, they were donating to blacklivesmatter.com

To me, this is like when some Protestants try to claim that they are the Catholic Church and that the Pope is not the real head of the Catholic Church.

Black Lives Matter has a visible head, regardless if it was hijacked or not.
 
I came back to 14 replies and can only address a couple of points.

@Pattylt Perfect analogy, thank you!
Tis_Bearself said:
They would likely claim the dads have vanished because the white patriarchal society either incarcerated them, killed them (including the police killing them), or somehow made them unable to serve as fathers.
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Historically speaking, it’s ironic. For over 200 years, white people owned black people, sold off wives, husbands, and babies, and now moan, “But, but why can’t you keep your family together?” It’s an issue far too complex for this thread, but (and I know you didn’t say or imply this) it cannot be simplified into racist assumptions or suggestions that black people are more prone to making bad choices.
esieffe said:
Until they do that, arguents that say “oh they don’t mean that” are just platitudes.
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To repeat, this is a reading comprehension problem among BLM’s critics. Their message is resoundingly clear and needs no clarification. I think that pre-biased people would just rather read Breitbart than the original source.
Ridgerunner said:
If so, then it probably does want to destroy the nuclear family or the family in any form for that matter, in favor of communal raising of children.
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Exactly how does your family feel threatened right now? Are they pounding on your door demanding your destruction?
Crusader13 said:
Where’s the outrage for the dozens of nameless kids killed in drive by shootings???
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I’m confident that there would be more if they were caught on video.

Meanwhile, where’s the outrage over this white cop killer? Why isn’t Breitbart screaming about it? Why isn’t Trump noisily tweeting his disapproval? Why aren’t all of the conservatives here and in World News shouting from the mountaintops? Authorities release body camera video of suspect shooting Tulsa police officers
 
Pattylt said:
Abby Hoffman and a group of his followers created an organization and claimed themselves as the leaders of the movement. Abby and friends were Marxist and not the most congenial people but the declared themselves the mouth pieces of all the anti war protests. Suddenly, everyone was claiming that ALL Vietnam protestors were under the leadership of Abby and gang.
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While similar, I don’t think this is comparing apples to apples.

The problem with the BLM protests is that they all are sharing the same name, motto, logo, etc.
 
blackforest said:
it cannot be simplified into racist assumptions or suggestions that black people are more prone to making bad choices.
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It’s more like “poor people are prone to making bad choices”, because poor white people and poor indigenous people do the same type things.

I took a pretty eye-opening course given by SVdP for their volunteers (I’m not a volunteer but the course was open to anybody) all about why poor people act the way they do, which makes zero sense to those of us in the middle class. Between that and reading some articles about factors that tend to affect people’s ability to hold jobs (like lack of child care, lack of transportation, lack of any sort of flexible schedule or work-from-home like professional people take for granted when they have an emergency, etc) I now have a better understanding of “bad choices”. I’d like to think if I were in that position, I’d be the one who managed to escape, but you just never know.
 
I was just conversing with my sister about this today. I’ve seen some extreme poverty in the undeveloped world, and it made sense to me why there was so much crime and corruption. If people cannot make ends meet on an honest living, they’re going to resort to a dishonest one. It begins as a matter of survival - Maslow and whatnot - but becomes a slippery slope into serious sin. I can’t excuse or justify what they’re doing, but on some level I can understand it.
 
I’m not really sure you can decouple the two at this point. BLM as a movement is almost entirely defined by the organization around it. I’ve read their wishlist of demands on a BLM website and it really seems like they’re more interested in shifting the responsibility of parenthood onto the state as opposed to the nuclear family structure. Unfortunately single parent households are more common with black families. I think a lack of married families is a big reason why a lot of black youth end up in bad situations, when you live with only one parent it’s an inevitability that financially things are going to be harder and they won’t have a solid female and male role model to look up at. Specifically I think all kids need a mother and father figure to grow and become well rounded adults in the future
blackforest said:
Knowing full well that there’s a difference between BLM the movement and BLM the organization, here’s some clarification debunking the common notion that BLM will “destroy the nuclear family.”
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