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tafan2
Guest
So, the word “until” does not signify an end of anything in 1st Corinthians, is that correct?
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ReadTheBible
Guest
There will be no need for Christ to rule over his enemies after judgement.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
I’m guessing you’re somehow trying to correlate the word till in both passages about Mary and Jesus.
Jesus must reign over the world until all enemies are under his feet. His place in Heaven won’t change when this world is no more. There will be no more worldly system, sin, or Lucifer, or the world itself that are all currently under the authority of Christ by his actions on earth.
Christ will always be at the right hand of God in Heaven. He will reign with God but it won’t be the same with all those in Heaven, post judgement because there will be no sin. All in Heaven will be of the same mind. Do you think Christ’s authority in Heaven is limited?
Scripture points out clearly that Joseph didn’t “know” Mary until after Jesus was born. Does this mean Joseph didn’t know who Mary was? No. He simply didn’t consummate the marriage physically until Christ was born.
Jesus must reign over the world until all enemies are under his feet. His place in Heaven won’t change when this world is no more. There will be no more worldly system, sin, or Lucifer, or the world itself that are all currently under the authority of Christ by his actions on earth.
Christ will always be at the right hand of God in Heaven. He will reign with God but it won’t be the same with all those in Heaven, post judgement because there will be no sin. All in Heaven will be of the same mind. Do you think Christ’s authority in Heaven is limited?
Scripture points out clearly that Joseph didn’t “know” Mary until after Jesus was born. Does this mean Joseph didn’t know who Mary was? No. He simply didn’t consummate the marriage physically until Christ was born.
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tafan2
Guest
Yes, you are basing your whole argument on one word, until. It’s a weak argument.
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MarysLurker
Guest
So that’s the other way out… deny original sin. Except I can just… you know… read the Bible.Sorry to say you’re wrong but you’re wrong
It is true that Mary did not contract the guilt of Adam’s original sin, because nobody has. It has nothing to do with Mary’s conception. Guilt simply is not inherited. The child does not bear the iniquity of the parent (Ezekiel 18:20). Human beings go astray; they are not born that way (Isaiah 53:6). One is spiritually dead because of his personal sin (Ephesians 2:1 ), not due to the sin of others.
Moreover… if everyone is conceived without sin and then contracts it after birth, then… why should babies be born at all? After all, unless God Himself is the author of evil, it’s our sins that cause all the evil in the world. So to get rid of sin, get rid of the babies…
HELL NO.
There you have it.The evil of abortion is the direct result of the denial of original sin.
And the denial of original sin is the denial of the Immaculate Conception.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
It’s not a weak argument at all. It’s very plainly stated and it’s not a one word sentence. Joseph didn’t have sex with Mary until after the birth of Christ. Having sex with your spouse isn’t a sin.
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MarysLurker
Guest
First you denied the sanctity of life. And now… You just denied that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of Ezekiel.
Stop. Please stop. You don’t know what you are saying.
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tafan2
Guest
Didn’t say it was a sin. Remove the word from the sentence and you argument fails.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
You are confused.
Man brought sin into the world in the garden of Eden.We all live in a corrupt Earth. We are all mortal and because of our nature we all will sin. It’s a choice but one we all make. Babies killed in their mothers womb through abortion have not sinned nor have any comprehension of sin. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Innocent children have no stain upon them and if they die will go to Heaven.
You are twisting logic concerning God as well. God created Lucifer perfect. Adam and Eve were also made perfect. Lucifer rebelled willingly. Adam and Eve broke God’s commandments willingly. You don’t get to blame God for evil when it was chosen by the participants of their own free will.
Man brought sin into the world in the garden of Eden.We all live in a corrupt Earth. We are all mortal and because of our nature we all will sin. It’s a choice but one we all make. Babies killed in their mothers womb through abortion have not sinned nor have any comprehension of sin. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Innocent children have no stain upon them and if they die will go to Heaven.
You are twisting logic concerning God as well. God created Lucifer perfect. Adam and Eve were also made perfect. Lucifer rebelled willingly. Adam and Eve broke God’s commandments willingly. You don’t get to blame God for evil when it was chosen by the participants of their own free will.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
You error again. Ezekiel 44 is not talking about Mary as Catholicism claims. It’s not the “golden gate” in Jerusalem either. The gate is a reserved gate in Heaven by which Christ entered.
Christ entered into Heaven through his own righteousness and holiness. None other can do so and that includes Mary. The only way for all sinners, including Mary, to enter Heaven is through faith and by the blood of Christ.
Christ entered into Heaven through his own righteousness and holiness. None other can do so and that includes Mary. The only way for all sinners, including Mary, to enter Heaven is through faith and by the blood of Christ.
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MarysLurker
Guest
But then why did God create lucifer?
Show me where that is in the Bible. Book. Chapter. Verse.
Especially since you just denied original sin when the Bible plainly affirms it.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
You’re wrong again.
I’m a Christian because I believe Jesus died for my sins. I do not agree with Catholicism on a great many things and neither does scripture. I can show you scripture but you do not see. You are also bound by Catholicism to believe what the authority of the church tells you to believe.
Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2 Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the Lord; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
This is the scripture you quoted and you believe, or are instructed to believe this proves the perpetual virginity of Mary.
So you believe Christ the Lord sat in Mary’s womb eating bread before God the Father. Ok. I can’t open your eyes but this is not what scripture is talking about. Ezekiel is being shown the true sanctuary which is Heaven.
I’m a Christian because I believe Jesus died for my sins. I do not agree with Catholicism on a great many things and neither does scripture. I can show you scripture but you do not see. You are also bound by Catholicism to believe what the authority of the church tells you to believe.
Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2 Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the Lord; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
This is the scripture you quoted and you believe, or are instructed to believe this proves the perpetual virginity of Mary.
So you believe Christ the Lord sat in Mary’s womb eating bread before God the Father. Ok. I can’t open your eyes but this is not what scripture is talking about. Ezekiel is being shown the true sanctuary which is Heaven.
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mcq72
Guest
Nobody said that. I am saying in a moment of full grace God shows his power infinitely and needs not a lifetime, even in the womb, of full grace to accomplish same will. This is what you obfuscate. The IC was not necesary.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
Are you honestly asking me to explain all the mysteries of God?
I can give you my opinion but that’s all it will be. I believe God created Lucifer and all the angels because it was pleasing to do so. Beyond that much it’s hard to even speculate.
God is all knowing. He knew the end from the beginning and has proclaimed it. Did God know Lucifer and Man would fall? How could he not? Again, they fell because of free will.
Free will has to be one of the greatest gifts God bestowed on us. God could have created robots who were forced to serve him. There would be no love in doing so.
God is so great and powerful that he knew from the very beginning when he spoke the universe into existence that mankind would fall, and he knew the exact hour his Son, the savior of mankind would enter the world. But he still gave us the free will to accept him or reject him.
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MarysLurker
Guest
Last I checked, the Prince was Jesus, Son of the Lord. (Daniel 9:25). Anyway, the Bible says that this Temple is nothing other than the Body of Christ, composed of living stones such as you, me, and Mary, the Temple Gate. (1 Peter 2:4-5).
But the IC IS a moment of full grace. When Gabriel tells Mary She is full of grace, it is before Christ actually becomes man. She’s already full of grace.
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MarysLurker
Guest
Either God is good, or He’s evil and the atheists are right. It is evil to create satan and permit sin so that God can have fun overcoming it. (That’s the best answer Protestantism will ever give; I’ve been informed that linking to such explanations as proof is a bad idea but they can easily be found if you don’t believe me).
The truth is, God created us to become something better than even the angels, something that requires free will. Free will in turn requires the existence of evil as a real possibility. That’s why God puts up with the devil and all his evil. Not because God wants that evil to exist, but because its existence is necessary so that we can be free to choose love… and become saints.
But that’s all hypothetical unless there is at least one Person Who is already saved and sanctified. That’s Mary. Because of Her, the Lamb’s Book of Life was never empty and the promise of salvation is real.
You need to stop telling your people that God created satan for fun. Seriously. Because you’re unwittingly doing the devil’s work by doing so. You need to stop posting here, sit down and pray about your motivation for your anti-Catholicism. I won’t judge you, but I am asking you to judge yourself.
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ReadTheBible
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You’re somehow still twisting logic.
God is perfect. If God was evil that wouldn’t prove atheists correct because they don’t believe in a God.
In the end, it must be worth it in God’s eyes to create a world in which He knew the devil and others would rebel against Him. I believe God is ultimately accomplishing a greater good through all the evil that the devil brings about.
Look at the story of Joseph in Genesis 50
17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
18 And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.
19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
God turned the evil brought upon Joseph by his brothers into something far greater than Joseph would have had originally as well as his brothers.
It’s human nature to question the whys of the universe. Yet we do not have the right to question God’s nature or decision making. He is the Father of all, all powerful, all knowing, all loving, one and only true God. We are to trust him in all things, including why he created Lucifer.
God is perfect. If God was evil that wouldn’t prove atheists correct because they don’t believe in a God.
In the end, it must be worth it in God’s eyes to create a world in which He knew the devil and others would rebel against Him. I believe God is ultimately accomplishing a greater good through all the evil that the devil brings about.
Look at the story of Joseph in Genesis 50
17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
18 And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.
19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
God turned the evil brought upon Joseph by his brothers into something far greater than Joseph would have had originally as well as his brothers.
It’s human nature to question the whys of the universe. Yet we do not have the right to question God’s nature or decision making. He is the Father of all, all powerful, all knowing, all loving, one and only true God. We are to trust him in all things, including why he created Lucifer.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
I only put my faith in Christ. Mary by all accounts will be in Heaven but she is a follower of Christ, no more and no less.
As a human I am compelled to love you and pray for your salvation. I do not and will never espouse to Catholicism.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
As a human I am compelled to love you and pray for your salvation. I do not and will never espouse to Catholicism.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
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MarysLurker
Guest
Then stop mediating Christ to me.
All your arguments are just special pleading. It’s OK for your mom to pray for you but it’s not OK for Jesus’s Mom to pray for you, and so on. Anything that’s Catholic is wrong. What a horrible way to live!
Hopefully after all this… taking a sober look back at where your arguments actually led in practice and looking at the world today… maybe you’ll give Mary a chance. Ask the Holy Spirit if She’s supposed to be part of your life. You’re just asking God a question, what’s the harm?
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