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MarysLurker
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What actual wedding?
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mcq72
Guest
No, words have meaning, especially God’s words, such as the meaning of her seed and emnity…reminds me of a president defending himself with linguisticall twist of everything depending upon the meaning of “is”.Your interpretation is that it says nothing.
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hope
Guest
She was Josephs wife.
When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.
Marriage occurred in two parts. The first part was the formal contract. At this point, the marriage occurred even though they did not live together. It lasted as you noted about a year while the husband prepared a place for his wife to live. When that was done he would come and take his wife into his home. In the above scripture, the angel is telling Joseph to complete the marriage. So what I wrote stands. Mary’s question could not be that she wasn’t having sex since as you said that would be expected of a wife. In her position if a normal marriage was going to be than she should have assumed that as Josephs wife she would conceive. She doesn’t mention Joseph. As a wife, that is a strange question.
When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.
Marriage occurred in two parts. The first part was the formal contract. At this point, the marriage occurred even though they did not live together. It lasted as you noted about a year while the husband prepared a place for his wife to live. When that was done he would come and take his wife into his home. In the above scripture, the angel is telling Joseph to complete the marriage. So what I wrote stands. Mary’s question could not be that she wasn’t having sex since as you said that would be expected of a wife. In her position if a normal marriage was going to be than she should have assumed that as Josephs wife she would conceive. She doesn’t mention Joseph. As a wife, that is a strange question.
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MarysLurker
Guest
The statute of limitations on Clinton jokes has run.No, words have meaning, especially God’s words, such as the meaning of her seed and emnity…reminds me of a president defending himself with linguistically twist of everything depending upon the meaning of “is”.
And those meanings are?
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hope
Guest
I would disagree with you. As I have pointed out in another post, the angel tells Joseph to take his wife into his home which is the second part of the marriage.
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mcq72
Guest
Where is the wedding…a contract, even an arranged marriage could happen a year or more…before she may even have been of age…are suggesting sex happens to a non teenager ?.. you don’t have sex at a honeymoon hotel or at your parents unless you are very poor…you become one when “leave you parents”
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MarysLurker
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Yeah, I know Mary and Joseph did have their wedding ceremony. There’s a picture of it on my wedding certificate. But I’m asking these “everything’s in the Bible” folks to play by their own rules. Double standards irritate me.I would disagree with you. As I have pointed out in another post, the angel tells Joseph to take his wife into his home which is the second part of the marriage.
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MarysLurker
Guest
I’m asking you to show us where it is in the Bible (and to stop using the word “sex” in your posts, it’s very offensive with reference to the Virgin. Also, we have kids and we want the forum to be family friendly)Where is the wedding…
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hope
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I am not certain what you are saying here. They did not contract marriage before they were of age. Obviously she was of the age to be pregnant. As such, her question makes no sense.
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mcq72
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Where is what in bible? What double standard? Ok…how would you explain what a virgin is and at what age? Is anything God created"dirty" offensive, even when abstaining from such “doings”?.. but yes, to be more precise and accurate, I was referring to consumating a marriage .I’m asking you to show us where it is in the Bible (and to stop using the word “sex” in your posts, it’s very offensive with reference to the Virgin. Also, we have kids and we want the forum to be family friendly)
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mcq72
Guest
Probably not but some marriages can be arranged when they are but children.I am not certain what you are saying here. They did not contract marriage before they were of age. Obviously she was of the age to be pregnant. As such, her question makes no sense.
I took you to mean that betrothal is same as wedding . You seem to be saying the wedding already took place before angelic visit. I was kind of saying the wedding would not take place until they had their own place. They would not generally consumate marriage at parents house or a hotel .
We are not told of wedding ceremony, only that Joseph took her in after the visitation. This is when they normally would have consumated the marriage.
All this to say, not knowing a man was proper for Mary up to and after the the angelic visitation, and normally up to being taken in after ceremony.
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hope
Guest
The Jewish wedding took place in two parts. The first part was the contract. At this point they were married. This is the point that is called betrothal. They were married but not living together. Remember Jesus’ parable of the seven foolish bridesmaids? They were waiting for the bridegroom. This refers to the Jewish marriage when after the first part they awaited the groom to come. It usually took a year. After the contract was a waiting period while the husband prepared their home. I assume while the woman learned to become a wife. In answer to your post Yes the wedding had taken place before the wedding that is what was meant by betrothal. See Mathew where the angel told him to take his wife into his home. Which was the second part of the marriage. The angel was telling him to complete the marriage. You are mistaken that the wedding would not take place before they had a place to live. It wasn’t done that way. It is especially why that her answer would puzzling for she was indeed already married and in that part where she was waiting for Joseph to complete the marriage by taking her into his home. We are told about the marriage. We are told that she was married to Joseph when the angel visited her and we are told that the Angel told Joseph to take Mary into his home thereby completing the Marriage riteI took you to mean that betrothal is same as wedding . You seem to be saying the wedding already took place before angelic visit. I was kind of saying the wedding would not take place until they had their own place. They would not generally consumate marriage at parents house or a hotel .
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MarysLurker
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The marriage ceremony after which you say they had children. Or you could just admit it’s not there so we can get back on topic, because this is getting very old.Where is what in bible?
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You criticize Catholics for supposedly adding to the Bible. We show you where the Immaculate Conception is (Gen. 3;15, Lk. 1:28). You still say we’re adding to the Bible. Then you criticize us for teaching Her perpetual virginity and again supposedly adding to the Bible. We show you where it is again (Ezekiel 44, Matt 27:56—Jesus’s “brothers” are cousins; Jesus’s aunt is also named Mary). Once again you still say we’re adding to the Bible.What double standard?
Yet when you interpret the word “until” one way in Mt. 1:25 and a different way everywhere else in the Bible… 1 Cor. 15:25, Phil. 1:10, 1 Tim. 6:14, etc., that’s not adding to the Bible, according to you. Double standard.
So you’re only adding to the Bible if you’re a Catholic. I guess that means the Orthodox don’t add to the Bible, yet they too accept that Mary is Panagia (all-holy) and a perpetual Virgin.
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mcq72
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from book “Makers and Customs of Bible Times”…r. gower…Yes the wedding had taken place before the wedding that is what was meant by betrotha
Mary was only betrothed and not wedded by ceremony to consumate marriage yet, living with parents at time of visitation.
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mcq72
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Not sure i said that ever about Mary…i mean she was already pregnant…perhaps i confused you by speaking about betrothal and consumating ceremony in general for Jewish people. It is only after Jesus is born that Christians disagree on any conjugal relations and further children.The marriage ceremony after which you say they had children.
As to adding to bible, yes my apologies, for indeed we all do same, as far as interpreting bible, and any wrong interpretation may obfuscate meaning, even giving another
We both accuse each other of that. Now, as far as adding to the bible, you do that by saying your interpretation is equal, even as God breathed as the bible is, as equally as authoritive, as if biblical writers would have said it themselves under divine inspiration. Thusly you put it as a tenet to be believed as God’s word. Now I consider that a form of “adding”, beyond interpretation, which we all do
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hope
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They are wrong.
From Mathew:
From Mathew:
Scripture is very clear that they were married. Divorce would only be necessary if there was a marriage.Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
The Pope in Catholicism has ultimate authority correct? I know plenty of Catholics who don’t really like the current Pope but it matters not. He’s the Pope and speaks for the Church.Show me please a Catholic document that says Mary is a deity?
Pope Pius IX “God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary”
Pope Leo XIII “We may affirm that by the will of God, nothing is given to us without Mary’s mediation, in such a way that just as no one can approach the Almighty Father but through His Son, so no one, so to speak, can approach Christ but through His Mother”
Pope Leo XIII “O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee. None, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee. None receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee”
Pope Pius X “By the communion of sorrows and of will between Christ and Mary, she has deserved to become the dispenser of all the blessings which Jesus acquired for us by His blood.”
Pope Pius XI “God alone gives grace according to the measure which in His infinite wisdom He foresees. But although that grace comes from God, it is given through Mary, our Advocate and Mediatrix, since motherly affection on the one hand find response in childlike devotion on the other.”
Pope Pius XI "We beseech God through the mediation of the Blessed Virgin, so acceptable to Him, to use Saint Bernard’s words: "Such is the will of God who has wished that we should have all things through Mary."
Pope Pius XII "Since as St. Bernard declares, “It is the will of God that we obtain all favors through Mary,” let everyone hasten to have recourse to Mary…So powerful indeed is the Blessed Virgin with God and His only-Begotten Son that, as Dante writes, "anyone who desires His help and fails to have recourse to Mary is like one trying to fly without wings."
These are examples of blasphemy in the highest forms. You and other Catholics might not “worship” Mary but Catholicism itself has indeed placed Mary in the role of a deity. If you disagree you’ll need to argue the matter with the Popes, not me.
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MarysLurker
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You have proven that Mary is an extremely powerful prayer warrior.These are examples of blasphemy in the highest forms. You and other Catholics might not “worship” Mary but Catholicism itself has indeed placed Mary in the role of a deity. If you disagree you’ll need to argue the matter with the Popes, not me.
You have not proven that she is a goddess.
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ReadTheBible
Guest
So in essence, because I believe scripture instead of the mystical theology of Catholicism, you make up slanderous comments concerning me. I have an extremely loving mother, wife, and daughter. All those relationships are strong and have absolutely nothing to do with the theology of Mary.I’ve been tempted to pull the plug already… and maybe I’m just naive for not having done so already. But I think there’s something to @ReadTheBible that drives him/her to be so persistent about Mary. A mother wound… a missing mother figure… a lost wife… a broken marriage. Could be any of those.
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MarysLurker
Guest
If you believed Scripture, you wouldn’t have denied original sin or the reign of the elect with Christ.I believe scripture
You’re making it up as you go along with canned quotes from anti-Catholic websites. That’s what you believe, not Scripture.
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