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Teelynn
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Some of the Bishops seem to be afraid of the politicians who publically promote death.
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maryj
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Religious credentials? Would you be willing to clarify that?
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Cat
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Boldface mine. THIS is the question–ARE Catholics paying attention to their bishops?
I know a lot of Catholics in my circle of acquaintances who do not pay attention to our great bishops (we have two emeritus bishops and a new bishop who is awesome!). In fact, I know Catholics who have nothing but disdain for what our bishop and other bishops say. I know many Catholics who don’t even know the name of our bishop, and have never heard of Cardinal Dolan, Cardinal Burke, etc.
God, have mercy on the U.S.
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Ender
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Well, they aren’t and there is a reason for that.*“By issuing policy statements on matters that lie beyond their specific competence, and that pertain rather to experts in secular disciplines, the bishops diminish their own credibility in speaking about matters with which they are specially charged as spiritual leaders of the church.” *(Cardinal Dulles)
This is one of those times when the topic is within their scope and responsibility but they have spoken out so often in so many areas that are clearly outside their competence that their comments are no longer taken seriously. This is the result of their constant involvement in political issues.
Ender
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Cider
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Biden won’t force his views on others, when it comes to killing the innocent but he will on everything else. Got it. 
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Tampa_Dave
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More important things at hand for the Obama-Biden campaign:Biden won’t force his views on others, when it comes to killing the innocent but he will on everything else. Got it.
(Reuters) - Plans to save Big Bird, the fuzzy yellow character on U.S. public television’s “Sesame Street,” from possible extinction are taking shape in the form of a puppet-based protest next month dubbed the “Million Muppet March.” The demonstration is planned for November 3 at the National Mall in Washington, D.C., three days before the general election.
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LisaA
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I saw this on the news this morning. I predict this will fall on its face. Even supporters of PBS can understand that it doesn’t need public funding. Big Bird’s economic footprint is the size of some small countries! Time to leave the nest…
BTW imagine the huge amount of publicity this is getting for PBS and the Muppets? They are crying all the way to the bank…
Sorry back to the thread…
Lisa
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Tampa_Dave
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Getting back to the thread. Are Catholics who refuse to listen to their Bishops truly Catholic? How can people like Sebelius or Biden call themselves true members of the Church of St. Peter? Reasonable dissent is one thing. To ignore sound Catholic principles espoused by our Bishops is absolutely 100% wrong. Biden’s actions are a disgrace to his supposed Catholic faith.
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gnjsdad
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Biden’s justification of his “pro-choice” stance, to me, is truly monstrous. It is also indicative of the weakness of the Catholic Church in the U.S. that the Bishops are calling him out on his HHS mandate statements rather than the deep moral flaws in his “pro-choice” position.
What did Biden say? He told us that he accepts the Church’s teaching on abortion in his personal life. What is the Church’s teaching on abortion? That it is the direct killing of an innocent human life and that it is an intrinsically evil act; an act evil in and of itself, under no circumstances justifiable. Biden also told us that he does feel justified “imposing” that view on others in American society. In effect, he’s saying *I believe abortion is akin to murder, as my Church teaches, but if you want an abortion, I, in my position as a public servant, won’t stop you. If you want to kill your own child in the womb, go ahead. *To me, this is the essence of craven moral cowardice.
Liberals like Biden are fond of quoting the Scripture passage of Our Lord’s stern reminder of the rich man’s obligation toward the poor and the least of us when the topic is economics, but they don’t want to consider that the unborn child falls into that category. I fear that many of those at the particular judgement who will cry “Lord, Lord!” and not be recognized will be just such as those.
For the life of me, I just don’t understand why Catholic politicians like Biden are allowed to get away with such a morally leprous position, but it has been going on for decades, every since Cardinal Cushing acquiesced in the Kennedys’ and Shrivers’ support for contraception and, later, abortion, and Mario Cuomo delivered his infamous “personally opposed, but…” justification.
I’m afraid our Bishops are more interested in being “good Americans” than in evangelizing American culture.
What did Biden say? He told us that he accepts the Church’s teaching on abortion in his personal life. What is the Church’s teaching on abortion? That it is the direct killing of an innocent human life and that it is an intrinsically evil act; an act evil in and of itself, under no circumstances justifiable. Biden also told us that he does feel justified “imposing” that view on others in American society. In effect, he’s saying *I believe abortion is akin to murder, as my Church teaches, but if you want an abortion, I, in my position as a public servant, won’t stop you. If you want to kill your own child in the womb, go ahead. *To me, this is the essence of craven moral cowardice.
Liberals like Biden are fond of quoting the Scripture passage of Our Lord’s stern reminder of the rich man’s obligation toward the poor and the least of us when the topic is economics, but they don’t want to consider that the unborn child falls into that category. I fear that many of those at the particular judgement who will cry “Lord, Lord!” and not be recognized will be just such as those.
For the life of me, I just don’t understand why Catholic politicians like Biden are allowed to get away with such a morally leprous position, but it has been going on for decades, every since Cardinal Cushing acquiesced in the Kennedys’ and Shrivers’ support for contraception and, later, abortion, and Mario Cuomo delivered his infamous “personally opposed, but…” justification.
I’m afraid our Bishops are more interested in being “good Americans” than in evangelizing American culture.
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Holly3278
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Please tell me you are joking. Do you really think the brutal murder of unborn children should be legal???
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LisaA
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Wonderful post thank you for saying what many of us think. I am a relatively new Catholic (compared to those raised in the Church). Do you think that the Bishops today are showing more courage than in the past? I have seen Archbishop Chaput and Cardinal Dolan speak out forcefully for the Church. Did this happen in the past or did they keep quiet until recently? I wonder if the huge power of the Kennedys had a sad legacy of keeping the Church from taking a strong stand if in conflict with secular powers? Now that the Kennedys have declined in political power, the death of Edward Kennedy who apparently got some preferential treatment, does the Church demonstrate more courage?
I hope and pray this is the case. I know so many non-Catholics who try to claim that since the Church has not definitively spoken out when prominent Catholics
like Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Kathleen Sebelius spouted off absolute heresy, they have no standing to ask the rest of us to consider their authority in matters of life.Also think Ender had a great point that the Bishops have lost some of their standing through their speaking out or not speaking out on other matters such as Social Justice and thus leading to confusion about the Church’s position on the non-negotiables.
Again thank you for a great summation of this issue. I share your dismay.
Lisa
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JimG
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This abortion dissent goes back a long time. I don’t know which came first, the Democratic Party’s decision to support abortion, or the dissenting Catholic’s decision to provide support for abortion. There was a meeting in 1964 at the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport, with many dissenting theologians in attendance. The purpose was to provide cover for political support for abortion by Catholic politicians. And naturally, there were big campaign contributions to be had from the pro-abortion lobby.
Patrick Madrid comments on that meeting here.
This from a WSJ article dated Jan 2, 2009:
“At a meeting at the Kennedy compound in Hyannisport, Mass., on a hot summer day in 1964, the Kennedy family and its advisers and allies were coached by leading theologians and Catholic college professors on how to accept and promote abortion with a “clear conscience.””
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LisaA
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Selling out for “thirty pieces of silver.” Here is a very revealing section of the Madrid article…
…***and that was that a Catholic politician could in good conscience vote in favor of abortion."
But can they now? There are signs today that some of the bishops are beginning to confront the Catholic politicians who consistently vote in favor of legislation to support abortion. Charles J. Chaput, the archbishop of Denver, has been on the front lines in encouraging Catholics to live their faith without compromise in the public square. Most recently in his book “Render Unto Caesar,” Archbishop Chaput has reminded Catholic politicians of their obligation to protect life.
The archbishop is not alone. The agenda at November’s assembly of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops included a public discussion of abortion and politics. The bishops’ final statement focused on concern about the possible passage of the “Freedom of Choice Act,” and referred to it as “an evil law that would further divide our country.” The bishops referenced their 2007 document, “Faithful Citizenship,” which maintains that the right to life is the foundation of every other human right. In it, they promised to “persist in the duty to counsel, in the hope that the scandal of their [Catholic congregants’] cooperating in evil can be resolved by the proper formation of their consciences.”***
Whether the bishops truly will persist remains to be seen. New York’s Cardinal Edward Egan, for instance, has not publicly challenged Ms. Kennedy’s pro-choice promises. This is unfortunate. Until the clerics begin to counter the pro-choice claims made by high-profile Catholics such as Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden and, now, Caroline Kennedy, faithful Catholics will continue to be bewildered by their pastoral silence.
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Tampa_Dave
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I get frustrated by supposed Catholics who find ways, through semantics or other justifications, to act, vote, or speak in opposition to Catholic teachings. I am Catholic first, American second. My allegiance my Catholic faith requires me to support the position of the Catholic Church in addressing American issues at the ballot box.
Patrick Madrid is
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MJE
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Bernard Nathanson MD, a leader of the pro abortion movement in USA, wrote in his 1979 book,* Aborting America*, that Catholic intellectuals were the target of the pro abortionists. At the very least they set out to neutralize “leaders” of the Catholic base. They were successful. He wrote that their pro abortion data was false but effective. Lies.
In the political realm this is very interesting. In the spiritual realm this evil movement reveals their 1st enemy was Christ & His Church. Even the historical case of Roe v Wade is based on lies as “Jane Roe” (the plaintiff) has testified. The Father of Lies is real.
In the political realm this is very interesting. In the spiritual realm this evil movement reveals their 1st enemy was Christ & His Church. Even the historical case of Roe v Wade is based on lies as “Jane Roe” (the plaintiff) has testified. The Father of Lies is real.
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rlg94086
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Yes. I actually think it was the perfect response. You have to think about the general population that is listening. The quickest and most effective way to call him on his lie was to point out the lawsuits. If he had given a more lengthly, detailed response, he would have lost a lot of the audience in wonkiness.
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rlg94086
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Amazingly so.
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jediliz
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I hope you are being Sarcastic. NO CATHOLIC should want ABORTION to BE LEGAL. Would you want infanticide to be legal? Do you want doctors to be able to euthanize newborns with Downs or Cerebral Palsy?
Abortion goes against everything JESUS taught.
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kimmielittle
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You are very welcomeAwesome article!
God bless!
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