No, Joe! U.S Catholic Bishops Say Biden Spoke Falsely

[LisaA]

Why isn’t the same amount of criticism hurled at the pro-status-quo party which treats feti conceived of rape and incest as non-human and mothers given the okay to abort them?

I’ve said this before, but if Biden with his foreign and social policies were today to switch parties, many posters on this forum would probably be the happiest people on earth.

You are joking right? Biden could join the Tea Party or the John Birch Society but he’s still an old fashioned pol with a lackluster career, questionable sanity and a brain completely disconnected from his mouth. You think the CAF members find this appealing?

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

The Church teaches the truth, but it does not dictate to us how to put it into practice. If some believers choose to accept Romney’s various representations of his abortion stance, why can’t others choose to believe that Obama/Biden will be better for the unborn babe’s survival?

Laughable premise but hey it’s a free country and you can choose to live in an alternative universe where up is down and where Obama’s support of infanticide is equivalent to Father Pavone’s support of unborn babies. I allow that you’re free to do so:shrug:

It’s always laughable that people think we’re all so stupid to believe there is some sort of moral equivalence between supporting life at all stages and supporting the use of OPM for various programs. Or that there is some kind of equivalence between supporting abortion at all stages for any reason, supporting infanticide and being willing to support a law that would allow abortion for the most uncommon and obscure of situations.

People are always bringing up the rape and incest factor. Given that PP alone provides 300000+ surgical abortions per year, how many were the result of rape or the LIFE of the mother (which incidentally virtually is NON EXISTENT)?

Balance the scales…300000 or a handful? Do the math.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Why isn’t the same amount of criticism hurled at the pro-status-quo party which treats feti conceived of rape and incest as non-human and mothers given the okay to abort them?

Because it’s NOT equivalent. Do the math ProVobis and tell me how many abortions each year are done because of rape or LIFE of the mother?

Do you see a slight difference in numbers? If we could even slow down the slaughter it would be a good thing. If we could stop it, even better.

I accept I live in the real world and know there are roadblocks. But we can make abortion as much a disgrace as slavery. Every step in that direction is progress.

Lisa

 

[TexCatholic4JMJ]

Because it’s NOT equivalent. Do the math ProVobis and tell me how many abortions each year are done because of rape or LIFE of the mother?

Do you see a slight difference in numbers? If we could even slow down the slaughter it would be a good thing. If we could stop it, even better.

I accept I live in the real world and know there are roadblocks. But we can make abortion as much a disgrace as slavery. Every step in that direction is progress.

Lisa

I don’t think there are many people who would not call Gov. Perry “pro-life” if they were to
review his record here in Texas. Yet, he, too, was against abortion except in the cases
of rape, incest and the life of the mother. THEN, praise God, he watched a video put out
by Gov. Huckabee and CHANGED his mind. He is fully pro-life now. It would be a short
step for Gov. Romney, to change his mind. I’m thinking we should ask Gov. Huckabee to
show him that video.

 

[LisaA]

I don’t think there are many people who would not call Gov. Perry “pro-life” if they were to
review his record here in Texas. Yet, he, too, was against abortion except in the cases
of rape, incest and the life of the mother. THEN, praise God, he watched a video put out
by Gov. Huckabee and CHANGED his mind. He is fully pro-life now. It would be a short
step for Gov. Romney, to change his mind. I’m thinking we should ask Gov. Huckabee to
show him that video.

Absolutely! I didn’t really know much about Gov Huckabee when he ran for President but I enjoy his TV and radio shows. I think he can do as much or more for pro-life causes in the media as he could when Governor.

I truly believe education is the key as with Gov Huckabee showing Gov Perry that video. People simply have not been shown the humanity in an unborn baby. I though Paul Ryan’s story about his little daughter was just so compelling and really the most moving part of the debate. I had previously heard her nickname was “Bean” and with this story I understand why. Seeing a video of an unborn baby, even if she’s the size and shape of a bean could make the difference for Gov Romney and others who are reluctant to go “all pro life.” I was thinking how much of a difference that Uncle Tom’s Cabin made to the support for slavery…that’s what we need an “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” for pro life causes.

Lisa

 

[_Abyssinia]

Every Catholics needs to read this, pass it on

Chaput: Don’t Let Biden Get Away With Misleading on HHS Mandate

Nearly 500 people packed the gymnasium at St. Elizabeth Catholic Church in Chester Springs, Pennsylvania late Saturday afternoon to hear Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap address the issue of Catholics in politics.

Archbishop Chaput spoke for about 45 minutes, followed by eight questions from the audience. The last question was from a Catholic woman who described herself as a “conservative” who asked the Archbishop why so many Catholics were “liberal.” His answer typified the Archbishop’s manner and message:

“I call you as a Catholic, to forget about the labels, be a liberal sometimes, a conservative sometimes, but a Catholic first.”

The Archbishop follows his own advice: Chaput’s presentation included a strong affirmation of the abortion and marriage issues as belonging to political debate, some very direct criticism of Vice President Biden’s comments during the debate this past week, and the admonition, “If you are not for social justice you are not being a Catholic.”

---

Chaput remains unapologetic for his book, which now has been republished with an additional chapter on his habit of addressing controversial issues such as abortion, same sex marriage, and religious liberty. He rejects the accusation that for a priest or bishop to instruct the faithful on these issues is ‘partisan’. It is for the clergy to preach and teach and for “the laity to act on what they’re taught.”

He asked for a show of hands of those who were “more serious about being a Democrat than being a Catholic.” None appeared. Then, for the hands of those who were “more serious about being a Republican than a Catholic.” Again, no hands were raised. The Archbishop then said, “All of us should be more serious about being Catholic than a Democrat or a Republican.”

“What if you had to choose between our country and Jesus, what would you choose? We have not had to make that choice, yet.” With that last comment, a ripple of recognition could be felt in the audience, as if the Archbishop was tapping into the deep concern that brought them into the gymnasium on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in autumn.

**“I don’t want to go to jail,” the Archbishop said with a laugh, as he explained that during the coming year the bishops would have to decide how to respond to the HHS mandate. “Biden was wrong” in what he said about the mandate during the debate, and “he should not get away with saying that in the public square.”

The archbishop added that the HHS mandate “could lead to the closing of schools and other Catholic institutions. This is a serious matter.”

Earlier in his lecture he described Biden’s debate comments as the “latest outrageous example” of the false division between personal Catholic belief and political action.

He singled out President Obama and Secretary Sebelius only in the context of the absurdity of how the mandate defines a religious institution: “Our institutions,” Chaput said, “would be considered religious if we served only Catholics — now that wouldn’t be very Catholic, would it?”**

“We believe in the separation of Church and State, but that is not the same thing as a separation between faith and politics. Faith is what we believe, politics is how we act. We are hypocrites if we fail to act in accord with our beliefs.”

 

[Catherine_S]

Without* Religious Freedom** it will become extremely difficult to work*
against abortion etc.,! The Obama Health Care Plan has brought this out
in the* open**!** What** Catholic or person** of any **faith would vote for an
administration that obviously has plans of making this move. By their
vote they would be stating that Religious Freedom is of no
importance or concern to them !! I just do not believe the majority *
of voters will be doing that at all!!
.
More on the laughing and lieing of VP Binden.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/whats-so-funny-joe/1897646429001
.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate
.
***The Obama campaign doesn’t quite seem to know **what to do, beyond more of the *
*same. Everything seems to be resting on the next debate. ****Perhaps they have some ***
*new attack lined **up. Maybe Politico is preparing some bombshell to hit Sunday ***
*night, to drive **a different narrative ****for the week. The problem for them, though, *
***is that whatever attack **they muster, Romney will have a national platform to *
*answer the charge directly on Tuesday. *
The Obama game plan was to knock Romney out early. It didn’t happen. If they
*don’t have another play, and I don’t think they do, the Obama Administration is *
soon for the history books.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/13/is-obama-running-out-of-ammunition-against-Romney
.

 

[Catherine_S]

Without* Religious Freedom** it will become extremely difficult to work*
against abortion etc.,! The Obama Health Care Plan has brought this out
in the* open**!** What** Catholic or person** of any **faith would vote for an
administration that obviously has plans of making this move. By their
vote they would be stating that Religious Freedom is of no
importance or concern to them !! I just do not believe the majority *
of voters will be doing that at all!!
.
More on the laughing and lieing of VP Binden.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/whats-so-funny-joe/1897646429001
.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/whats-so-funny-joe/1897646429001#1897653229001
.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate
.
***The Obama campaign doesn’t quite seem to know **what to do, beyond more of the *
*same. Everything seems to be resting on the next debate. ****Perhaps they have some ***
*new attack lined **up. Maybe Politico is preparing some bombshell to hit Sunday ***
*night, to drive **a different narrative ****for the week. The problem for them, though, *
***is that whatever attack **they muster, Romney will have a national platform to *
*answer the charge directly on Tuesday. *
The Obama game plan was to knock Romney out early. It didn’t happen. If they
*don’t have another play, and I don’t think they do, the Obama Administration is *
soon for the history books.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/13/is-obama-running-out-of-ammunition-against-Romney

 

[LisaA]

Without* Religious Freedom*** it will become extremely difficult to work
against abortion etc.,! The Obama Health Care Plan has brought this out
in the* open***!* What** Catholic or person* of any faith would vote for an
administration that obviously has plans of making this move. By their
vote they would be stating that Religious Freedom is of no
importance or concern to them *!! I just do not believe the majority *
of voters will be doing that at all!!
.
More on the laughing** and** lieing** of VP Binden.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/whats-so-funny-joe/1897646429001
.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/whats-so-funny-joe/1897646429001#1897653229001
.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/12/Fact-Check-Top-Ten-Worst-Lies-by-Joe-Biden-in-VP-Debate
.
***The Obama campaign doesn’t quite seem to know ***what to do, beyond more of the
same. Everything seems to be resting on the next debate. ***Perhaps they have some ***
new attack lined **up. Maybe Politico is preparing some bombshell to hit Sunday **
night, to drive **a different narrative **for the week. The problem for them, though,
***is that whatever attack ***they muster, Romney will have a national platform to
answer the charge directly on Tuesday.
The Obama game plan was to knock Romney out early. It didn’t happen. If they
don’t have another play, and I don’t think they do, the Obama Administration is
soon for the history books.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/10/13/is-obama-running-out-of-ammunition-against-Romney

Cardinal Dolan is in Rome and said the Holy Father thanked the American bishops for standing firm against the assault on religious freedom. He said it would be a horrible thing if “the country that gave the world religious freedom loses it themselves.”

It is a serious matter and although it seems far fetched that we would lose our religious liberty, I think the secular powers are trying to take it a piece at a time. Start with forcing birth control as part of all insurance plans, abortion inducing drugs and the next thing they will demand Catholic hospitals perform abortions and sterilizations. It’s all about control

Lisa

 

[Catherine_S]

Cardinal Dolan is in Rome and said the Holy Father thanked the American bishops for standing firm against the assault on religious freedom. He said it would be a horrible thing if “the country that gave the world religious freedom loses it themselves.”

It is a serious matter and although it seems far fetched that we would lose our religious liberty, I think the secular powers are trying to take it a piece at a time. Start with forcing birth control as part of all insurance plans, abortion inducing drugs and the next thing they will demand Catholic hospitals perform abortions and sterilizations. It’s all about control

Lisa

!!
Thank you, Lisa!!
Happy to learn the Pope thanked the Bishops!! God Bless the Lords Men where ever they are!
The secular powers or false religious beliefs ( count on the help of lukewarn or sleeping Christians, which we all are to a degree) and will always be testing the water to see how far they can go. It is a process that moves causiously, setting the stage, weakening a culture and when it appears the time may be right it makes its move and once ground is lost it becomes tremendously difficult to gain it back! *
All through out History this process for control between darkness and Light has been going on but the Light ( our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ won that battle and shines through and protects His Church and would never allow this to happen but the darkness remains a contineous threat because it knowes that as believers grow cold in their faith and if the time is right "Freedom"can always be given away by our actions or non actions! I do not think this will happen at** this point** in time in the **USA. ***

 

[_Abyssinia]

Holy Trinity Catholic Church - Vice President Biden Misleads Nation on HHS Mandate

With the Vice Presidential debate this week, American Catholics had the chance to see two of their own speak about their faith publicly. When Vice President Biden spoke of his Roman Catholic faith, he professed to be a practicing Roman Catholic. Because Vice President made public statements asserting that he is a “practicing Catholic”, it is important to examine exactly what he said and why his words are not consistent with the Bishops of the Church and their teaching, which is always under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. While Vice President Biden certainly may have a great love and devotion for the Catholic faith, his statements are themselves inconsistent with that faith he holds. The exact text of his statement and Church teaching is offered below for your consideration.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN:

With regard to — with regard to abortion, I accept my church’s position on abortion as a — what we call a de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church’s judgment. I accept it in my personal life.

The Vice President is correct. That life begins at conception and should be treated with full dignity and respect is, in fact, a de fide doctrine. All Catholics are obligated to believe it. However, when it comes to the doctrine of the faith in our moral behavior, we are required not just to assent to the teaching, but to live the teaching in our actions, and to work to promote that moral behavior for the good of society.

The statement of faith by the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith, Donum Vitae, the Magisterium teaches:

“The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death.”

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN:

But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the — the congressman. I — I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that — women they can’t control their body.

CHURCH TEACHING:

Catholics must always believe that the Lord’s teachings on society and moral living are the best for all people and the greater good of society, not simply our own. The Bishops of the Church are clear: ”To make such intrinsically evil actions legal is itself wrong. This is the point most recently highlighted in official Catholic teaching. The legal system as such can be said to cooperate in evil when it fails to protect the lives of those who have no protection except the law. Those who formulate law therefore have an obligation in conscience to work toward correcting morally defective laws, lest they be guilty of cooperating in evil and in sinning against the common good.” – The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Letter to Catholics in Political Life.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: With regard to the assault on the Catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear, no religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy Hospital, any hospital, none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact.

CHURCH TEACHING:

It is not a fact. It is an intentional lie to American Catholics. In his support of the Obama Administration’s HHS Mandate, which would require Catholic institutions to pay for services, procedures, and drugs that are contrary to our Catholic faith. The explanation of his statement and the truth, as explained and corrected by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, can be read and downloaded here. - USCCB statement. It is important to note that never in recorded history has the Bishops Conference had to correct a candidate for office during a debate performance in such a documented, formal way. Clearly if the Bishops have called on priests to preach on this for an entire “Fortnight for Freedom” this summer, have devoted media and advertising resources to educating the American people, and have supported literally dozens of lawsuits around the country, Vice President Biden’s statement is untrue.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Holy Trinity Catholic Church - Vice President Biden Misleads Nation on HHS Mandate

With the Vice Presidential debate this week, American Catholics had the chance to see two of their own speak about their faith publicly. When Vice President Biden spoke of his Roman Catholic faith, he professed to be a practicing Roman Catholic. Because Vice President made public statements asserting that he is a “practicing Catholic”, it is important to examine exactly what he said and why his words are not consistent with the Bishops of the Church and their teaching, which is always under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. While Vice President Biden certainly may have a great love and devotion for the Catholic faith, his statements are themselves inconsistent with that faith he holds. The exact text of his statement and Church teaching is offered below for your consideration.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN:

With regard to — with regard to abortion, I accept my church’s position on abortion as a — what we call a de fide doctrine. Life begins at conception in the church’s judgment. I accept it in my personal life.

The Vice President is correct. That life begins at conception and should be treated with full dignity and respect is, in fact, a de fide doctrine. All Catholics are obligated to believe it. However, when it comes to the doctrine of the faith in our moral behavior, we are required not just to assent to the teaching, but to live the teaching in our actions, and to work to promote that moral behavior for the good of society.

The statement of faith by the Congregation for Doctrine of the Faith, Donum Vitae, the Magisterium teaches:

“The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death.”

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN:

But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews, and I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the — the congressman. I — I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that — women they can’t control their body.

CHURCH TEACHING:

Catholics must always believe that the Lord’s teachings on society and moral living are the best for all people and the greater good of society, not simply our own. The Bishops of the Church are clear: ”To make such intrinsically evil actions legal is itself wrong. This is the point most recently highlighted in official Catholic teaching. The legal system as such can be said to cooperate in evil when it fails to protect the lives of those who have no protection except the law. Those who formulate law therefore have an obligation in conscience to work toward correcting morally defective laws, lest they be guilty of cooperating in evil and in sinning against the common good.” – The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Letter to Catholics in Political Life.

VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN: With regard to the assault on the Catholic church, let me make it absolutely clear, no religious institution, Catholic or otherwise, including Catholic Social Services, Georgetown Hospital, Mercy Hospital, any hospital, none has to either refer contraception, none has to pay for contraception, none has to be a vehicle to get contraception in any insurance policy they provide. That is a fact.

CHURCH TEACHING:

It is not a fact. It is an intentional lie to American Catholics. In his support of the Obama Administration’s HHS Mandate, which would require Catholic institutions to pay for services, procedures, and drugs that are contrary to our Catholic faith. The explanation of his statement and the truth, as explained and corrected by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, can be read and downloaded here. - USCCB statement. It is important to note that never in recorded history has the Bishops Conference had to correct a candidate for office during a debate performance in such a documented, formal way. Clearly if the Bishops have called on priests to preach on this for an entire “Fortnight for Freedom” this summer, have devoted media and advertising resources to educating the American people, and have supported literally dozens of lawsuits around the country, Vice President Biden’s statement is untrue.

 

[Catherine_S]

Cardinal Dolan is in Rome and said the Holy Father thanked the American bishops for standing firm against the assault on religious freedom. He said it would be a horrible thing if “the country that gave the world religious freedom loses it themselves.”

It is a serious matter and although it seems far fetched that we would lose our religious liberty, I think the secular powers are trying to take it a piece at a time. Start with forcing birth control as part of all insurance plans, abortion inducing drugs and the next thing they will demand Catholic hospitals perform abortions and sterilizations. It’s all about control

Lisa

!!
Thank you, Lisa!!
*Happy to learn the Pope thanked the Bishops!! **The secular powers **or *false religions count on the help of lukewarn or sleeping Christians (which we all are to a degree) and they will always be testing the water to see how far they can go. It is a process that moves causiously, setting the stage, weakening a culture, and when it appears the time may be right it makes its move and once ground is lost it becomes tremendously difficult to gain it back! *
All through out History this process for control between darkness and Light has been going on but the Light ( our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ won that battle and shines through and protects His Church and would never allow this to happen but the darkness remains a contineous threat because it knowes that as believers grow cold in their faith and if the time is right "Freedom"can always be given away by the actions or non actions of christians! I do not think this will happen at this point in time in the **USA. ***

 

[_Abyssinia]

Following the interview, the bishops weighed in with vigor:

1. 
   *]Cardinal Justin F. Rigali, chairman of the USCCB’s Committee on Pro-Life Activities, and Bishop William E. Lori, chairman of the USCCB’s Committee on Doctrine, issued a joint statement “to correct the misrepresentations” of Church teachings advanced by Biden. Indeed, they argued that “the senator’s claim that the beginning of human life is a ‘personal and private’ matter of religious faith, one that cannot be ‘imposed’ on others, does not reflect the truth of the matter.”
   *]Speaking explicitly of Biden, as well as those Catholic politicians who share his position, Bishop Samuel Aquila of Fargo, North Dakota, said, “they really should not be presenting themselves for Holy Communion because it is a scandal.”
   *]Bishop Gregory Aymond of Austin released a statement by the bishops’ Administrative Committee, the highest authority of the USCCB outside the conference’s plenary sessions, affirming support for the position as outlined by Cardinal Rigali and Bishop Lori. “As teachers of the faith, we also point out the connectedness between the evil of abortion and political support for abortion.”
   *]Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput said of Biden: “I certainly presume his good will and integrity and I presume that his integrity will lead him to refrain from presenting himself for Communion.”
   *]Bishop Paul S. Coakley of Salina said, “Senator Biden confused the matter [of abortion] further by saying that he ‘knows when (life) begins for me,’ but that this is a ‘personal and private issue.’ That life begins at conception is a scientific fact, not a personal or subjective or philosophical or religious opinion.”
   *]Denver Auxiliary Bishop James D. Conley joined with Archbishop Chaput in accusing Biden of “poor logic” and “bad facts.”
   *]Milwaukee Archbishop Timothy Dolan accused Biden of taking it upon himself to “explain Catholic teaching on abortion to the nation — and blundered badly.”
   *]Bishop W. Francis Malooly of Wilmington labeled Biden’s position “simply incorrect.” He said, “The Didache, probably the earliest Christian writing apart from the New Testament, explicitly condemns abortion without exception.”
   *]When Bishop Joseph F. Martino of Scranton was asked what he would say to Biden, he restated his position that “No Catholic politician who supports the culture of death should approach Holy Communion.” He added, “I will be truly vigilant on this point.”
   *]Bishop R. Walker Nickless of Sioux City slammed Biden for using a “false argument to justify [his] cooperation with evil.”
   *]Boston Archbishop Sean Cardinal O’Malley complained that he finds it “disturbing when politicians and others try to dismiss us [the bishops] as people with merely an ecclesiastical or religious sectarian point of view or opinion.”
   *]Bishop John Ricard of Pensacola-Tallahassee said Biden’s position indicated “a profound disconnection from [his] human and personal obligation to protect the weakest and most innocent among us: the child in the womb.”
   *]Bishop Edward Slattery of Tulsa blasted Biden for his “erroneous beliefs” about the beginning of life and for creating a “division” between “privacy and social responsibility” that was “tenuous.”
   *]Archbishop Donald Wuerl of Washington chastised Biden for not recognizing that “When life begins is not a matter of faith, but a matter of science.”

1. 
   

   These 15 bishops are not alone.

 

[Pork_Roll]

Without Religious Freedom it will become extremely difficult to work
against abortion etc.,!

It’s really not about religious freedom. It’s about the state or government not recognizing the inherent rights of the church and family

The family, a natural society, exists prior to the State or any other community, and possesses inherent rights which are inalienable

The Obama administration is not restricting religious freedom. I can still go to church and watch EWTN. What is very apparent is that this whole “religious freedom” angle tries to distance what really is going on. That our bishops have been largely derelict in preaching against the contraceptive mentality which is embraced by both the GOP and democrats. Even Santorum who is far superior to Romney was proud of the fact that he supported Planned Parenthood and contraceptive use.

Religious freedom, give me a break. How about the fruits of our 60+ years of lukewarm catholicism.

 

[LisaA]

It’s really not about religious freedom. It’s about the state or government not recognizing the inherent rights of the church and family The Obama administration is not restricting religious freedom. I can still go to church and watch EWTN. What is very apparent is that this whole “religious freedom” angle tries to distance what really is going on. That our bishops have been largely derelict in preaching against the contraceptive mentality which is embraced by both the GOP and democrats. Even Santorum who is far superior to Romney was proud of the fact that he supported Planned Parenthood and contraceptive use.

Religious freedom, give me a break. How about the fruits of our 60+ years of lukewarm catholicism.

As a relatively recent convert I can’t speak to your final sentence but I suspect you are right. OTOH your statement that you can still go to Mass and watch EWTN you fall into the fallacious definition of freedom of WORSHIP not RELIGION. You’re smarter than that Pork Roll, you know the difference. The Constitution refers to “free exercise thereof” and they don’t just mean choosing the hymns on Sunday. Particularly with respect to Christianity and Catholicism especially we are to be living our faith. This includes Catholic charities, schools, hospitals, doctors’ offices, businesses, soup kitchens, adoption agencies and other ways of serving God. For the government to say we can’t exercise our faith freely is clearly a violation of the Constitution.

Lukewarm was addressed in Revelation My evangelical sisters are quite well versed in this book and I hope we as Catholics are as well. While I agree that as I see historically a rather muddled approach, I also don’t see the kind of attacks on the faith that we see now.

Tell me Archbishop Sheen would not have spoken out about the HHS Mandate, gay marriage or other anathemas? There have always been principled Priests. They just were not as essential to the survival of the America I love as they are now.

Lisa

 

[Pork_Roll]

OTOH your statement that you can still go to Mass and watch EWTN you fall into the fallacious definition of freedom of WORSHIP not RELIGION.

Actually, I’m getting this from the Fr. Paul Sweeney, President of the Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology (DSPT) at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley. He spoke at our church about this exact topic of how best deal with this attack on the church. He thought it best to use a pluralistic approach whereby we argue against this HHS mandate by saying we are a society of communities that exist prior to and apart from the state. We are suffering because our rights are taken down to the individual level opposing the rights at the level of communities, i.e. family, church… etc. It shouldn’t be one or the other, but “both and” I suppose.

Basically, we don’t want a panel of Judges to tell us what marriage is or how the church should operate. This sets a dangerous precedent. The constitution is only acknowledging what is true when speaking of a freedom of religion. Our freedom to practice our Catholic faith is in reality based on the natural law and not the constitution.

 

[Catherine_S]

It’s really not about religious freedom. It’s about the state or government not recognizing the inherent rights of the church and family The Obama administration is not restricting religious freedom. I can still go to church and watch EWTN. What is very apparent is that this whole “religious freedom” angle tries to distance what really is going on. That our bishops have been largely derelict in preaching against the contraceptive mentality which is embraced by both the GOP and democrats. Even Santorum who is far superior to Romney was proud of the fact that he supported Planned Parenthood and contraceptive use.

Religious freedom,* give me a break*. How about the fruits of our 60+ years of lukewarm catholicism.

No !!

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM

Pope Benedict XVI, Shepherd of Truth

Notable* quotations** from Pope Benedict XVI and official*
teachings of the Roman Catholic Church
.
"GRAVE THREATS"

… It is imperative that the entire Catholic community in the United States come to realize the** grave threats** to the** Church’s public moral witness** presented by a** radical secularism** which finds increasing expression in the political and cultural spheres … Of** particular** concern are certain attempts being made to** limit** that** most cherished** of** American freedoms**, the freedom of** religion**.
http://www.presentationministries.com/bst/bst2012-05.asp

 

[Tampa_Dave]

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM

Pope Benedict XVI, Shepherd of Truth

Notable* quotations*** from Pope Benedict XVI and official
teachings of the Roman Catholic Church
.
"GRAVE THREATS"

… It is imperative that the entire Catholic community in the United States come to realize the** grave threats** to the** Church’s public moral witness** presented by a** radical secularism** which finds increasing expression in the political and cultural spheres … Of** particular** concern are certain attempts being made to** limit** that** most cherished** of** American freedoms**, the freedom of** religion**.
http://www.presentationministries.com/bst/bst2012-05.asp

Pay heed, American Catholics.

 

[Pork_Roll]

Of particular concern are certain attempts being made to limit that most cherished of American freedoms, the freedom of religion.

Maybe, or he could be talking about other things like gay marriage and adoptive services. IMO, I don’t think the HHS mandate is limiting our religious freedom inasmuch as it is an attempt to give individual rights over and above those given to communities.