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Ric
Guest
Sorry TWF,
But this thread is so out of hand, that I can not possiably reply to all of the posts. Plus I just looked on page 5 and I did not find your post.
As for the text version, where is the download?
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But this thread is so out of hand, that I can not possiably reply to all of the posts. Plus I just looked on page 5 and I did not find your post.
As for the text version, where is the download?
R
Ric
Guest
Detroit Sue:
I received Jesus into my heart and He has never left!
Really??? Second helpings???So will I. I receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of my dearly beloved Lord at every Mass. Can’t get much closer than that.
I received Jesus into my heart and He has never left!
J
JackPaul
Guest
Divine Providence. That wonderful Catholic woman was my wife just a few years ago. I never in my life believed that I would one day be a RC. But for those who are not satisfied in what they have found elsewhere and are looking for the fullness of the Christian faith, they need not look any further. At least this was true for me. I was raised Baptist, then in my early 20’s claimed to be agnostic. Now, I hope to be as Catholic as the Pope.
We are all going to face death someday. We have been told about the life after death for 5000 years. Jesus Christ is the key to our salvation and eternal life in heaven. You can fool around with heretical or pagan religions and be as obstinate as you want to be. But you wouldn’t be looking here if you weren’t interested in a True faith. What if all this Christian nonsense is true and you have guessed wrong? When you die, you will be kicking yourself for more years than there are grains of sand in the sea. The seed has already been planted, all you need do is let it grow. Give up childish notions about goddesses and other false gods and come to the table with the one who is going to save your bacon in the end. The RCC has many programs that will answer your questions. RCIA is a great place to start, even if you are not sure…
Hey, you can always go back to being whatever you were before (if your willing to take the risk of eternal damnation). You and your soul are worth it.
We are all going to face death someday. We have been told about the life after death for 5000 years. Jesus Christ is the key to our salvation and eternal life in heaven. You can fool around with heretical or pagan religions and be as obstinate as you want to be. But you wouldn’t be looking here if you weren’t interested in a True faith. What if all this Christian nonsense is true and you have guessed wrong? When you die, you will be kicking yourself for more years than there are grains of sand in the sea. The seed has already been planted, all you need do is let it grow. Give up childish notions about goddesses and other false gods and come to the table with the one who is going to save your bacon in the end. The RCC has many programs that will answer your questions. RCIA is a great place to start, even if you are not sure…
Hey, you can always go back to being whatever you were before (if your willing to take the risk of eternal damnation). You and your soul are worth it.
S
Susanna
Guest
Hi! I enjoy reading your interesting (and charitable) responses— Just a few comments of my own here— First of all— as a Catholic I understand the first 11 chapters of Genesis to be what we call inspired myth. A myth is different from a fable. A myth is defined as:
The point of the creation myths in Genesis is not to impart verbatim fact of how we were created but rather to reveal the truths about our relationship to God, God’s relationship to us, our human nature, our relationship to one another and our relationship to the rest of creation. The method used by God to create us whether it was evolution (intelligent design) or directly made by God’s hand from the clay of the earth is irrelevant— the importance of these myths is found in what I stated above.
Well in reality that is because pagans basically accept anything and everything— you all create your own reality so in the pagan world view there are no objective truths— what is there to disagree about? The only rule of life for pagans is the Rede—“if it harms none— do what you will”. While this sounds benevolent and it is good in theory the problem then presents itself— we are leaving individual SUBJECTIVE human reason and emotion to decide what constitutes harm for all other people. When combined with the tenet that reality is what the individual perceives it to be—well that’s a pretty darn slippery slope to place society on. Very simply pagan views elevate the individual perception of rights and truth above the common good.
Have to disagree here— male and female joined together are the source of life. Without the male’s “generative principle” there would be no new life for the woman to nurture and cultivate within her— It takes two to tango!
The truth is even scientists believe things they can’t see. Take black holes for example— their existence cannot be proven with empirical evidence—furthermore by their very nature this would be impossible— they are proven soley upon mathematical and circumstantial evidence—yet I doubt very many people doubt their existence.
Blessings on you— from a fellow sojourner who was once Jewish, atheist, pagan and finally Catholic “revert” (now and forever!)
S
Susanna
Guest
I agree. While shopping once in a Christian bookstore a woman came up to me looked at my crucifix necklace and said “Why do Catholics keep Jesus on the cross—don’t you know he is risen?” I think the crucifix is the most beautiful symbol on earth— it exquisitely portrays God’s love for us. I told the lady in the bookstore that of course Catholics believe Christ is risen— that is our joy and our hope—but while on earth we need to remember that each of us must be crucified WITH Christ— here on earth the crucifix is our door to heaven.
H
Heathen_Dawn
Guest
We all create our own reality? No objective truths? I think you’re confusing pagans with New Agers. There’s some overlap, but not an entire overlap. Not all pagans are New Agers. A lot of pagans believe in objective reality and objective truth.
It’s called the Wiccan Rede and it applies to Wiccans only. Not to all pagans. A Hellenic Reconstructionist pagan would laugh himself silly at the thought of applying the Rede to his own religion.
Theoretically. But in practice, it is not the atheists and pagans, with their relativistic morality, who have engaged on crusades, inquisitions, jihads and 9/11.
Okayyy … Wicca is based on a balance of male and female anyway.Have to disagree here— male and female joined together are the source of life. Without the male’s “generative principle” there would be no new life for the woman to nurture and cultivate within her— It takes two to tango!
I’ll become a Catholic Christian if the Gods turn Their backs on me. So far, I haven’t tried enough.
T
Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
Heathen Dawn:
What are the names of the Gods you worship and how specifically do you worship them. You have said that Heather Dawn is your magical name…are you a male-witch or perhaps a warlock then?
Thanks for taking the time to illuminate us on the differences between pagans, witches, and new agers.
Just curious,
What are the names of the Gods you worship and how specifically do you worship them. You have said that Heather Dawn is your magical name…are you a male-witch or perhaps a warlock then?
Thanks for taking the time to illuminate us on the differences between pagans, witches, and new agers.
S
Shari
Guest
Tom of Assisi:
His name is Heathen Dawn, Just thought I would point this out so he didn’t have to. Then HeatheN Dawn can focus on answering your question instead of fixing his name.
L
Little_Mary
Guest
**I am offended by this reply. OK so you don’t believe in what Catholics believe. We are all here to discuss that charitably. But this reply was disrespectful. You really took a knock at something we Catholics hold as very sacred and precious. I, for one, think an apology is in order. **Really??? Second helpings???
I received Jesus into my heart and He has never left!
T
Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
thanks a lot…I guess my doctor was right…I do need glasses…that name makes much more sense.
P
Pax
Guest
Shari,
Sadly I have not gotten to this book yet. I have a very long reading list and this title has been on it for quite awhile. The author is not Chesterton, but is H.W. Crocker III. By most accounts this is an excellent book. Non catholics may not care for it because it is written from a catholic perspective.
If you want to get an idea as to what Luther has said in his own words you can check out a debate between Dave Armstrong and a protestant defender of Lurther. Dave Armstrong, a catholic convert, has some very unflattering things to say about Luther. Aside from any labels used by Armstrong, which might offend some people, he uses extended quotes of Luther’s own words to show what he was all about. Every protestant should read the man’s own words and then decide. I was personally blown away by some of the incredible things he wrote. There is simply no fig leaf big enough to cover any of it up.
I’ll get a web link/site and post it shortly.
P
Pax
Guest
Okay, I’ve got a weblink but it’s not the one I’m looking for. It will nevertheless, get you started with Dave Armstrong. I’ll look a little further to see what else I can dig up.
See: web.archive.org/web/20021220104058/http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ493.HTM
See: web.archive.org/web/20021220104058/http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ493.HTM
E
Ellen
Guest
Boy, this thread’s gotten out of hand. Think I’ll add to it 
.
The old “The Catholic Church teaches we are saved by our works” argument is about as lame as the “Catholics worship idols argument.” One can easily read the catechism and know that this is not true. However, for those who don’t own a catechism, or don’t want to access it online, this is your lucky day On the home page (catholic.com) is a tract of the great heresies throughout the ages. One of them, of course I can’t remember the name of it now, is that very one: that we can acheive salvation on our own, w/o God’s grace. It was soundly condemned by the Catholic Church (which was the only Church at the time) in the 4th century (I think, sometime around there, anyhow, many centuries b/f Luther came along).
After you read this (and the Catechism, just so you know the Church still condemns this as a heresy), you can no longer in good conscience say “The Catholic Church teaches…”. Youcan still say “Catholics I know believe…”. That’s fine, I’ll believe that, many Catholics do not know their faith. Send them here, we’ll set them straight
Ellen
.The old “The Catholic Church teaches we are saved by our works” argument is about as lame as the “Catholics worship idols argument.” One can easily read the catechism and know that this is not true. However, for those who don’t own a catechism, or don’t want to access it online, this is your lucky day
On the home page (catholic.com) is a tract of the great heresies throughout the ages. One of them, of course I can’t remember the name of it now, is that very one: that we can acheive salvation on our own, w/o God’s grace. It was soundly condemned by the Catholic Church (which was the only Church at the time) in the 4th century (I think, sometime around there, anyhow, many centuries b/f Luther came along).After you read this (and the Catechism, just so you know the Church still condemns this as a heresy), you can no longer in good conscience say “The Catholic Church teaches…”. Youcan still say “Catholics I know believe…”. That’s fine, I’ll believe that, many Catholics do not know their faith. Send them here, we’ll set them straight
Ellen
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Pax
Guest
Shari,
This is the link I was looking for:
web.archive.org/web/20030212231356/http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ341.HTM
When you get there scroll to the heading:
Against the Spiritual Estate of the Pope and the Bishops Falsely So-Called, July 1522
This is a good place to start reading since it is past the debate over original source material. If found Luther’s words shocking.
This is the link I was looking for:
web.archive.org/web/20030212231356/http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ341.HTM
When you get there scroll to the heading:
Against the Spiritual Estate of the Pope and the Bishops Falsely So-Called, July 1522
This is a good place to start reading since it is past the debate over original source material. If found Luther’s words shocking.
P
Pax
Guest
Ellen,
You are correct and the name of the heresy is “Pellagianism.”
You are correct and the name of the heresy is “Pellagianism.”
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Gods peace be with you Theophilus,
SPOKENWORD:
Eph 1:22-23 “22 And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.”
He formed the Church when He breathed into Cephas (ROCK or St. Peter), when He gave Cephas the ‘Keys’ to His kingdom, when He gave Cephas the power to bind or loose on earth. The Church began its ministry on Pentecost.
Just a question about Cephas. Why does the name ‘Cephas’ (meaning Kephas or Rock in Aramaic) not appear in the NKJV repeatedly? The name ‘Cephas’ was used regularly in the AKJV (The real King James Bible). Was it changed to ‘Peter’ so preachers could compare ‘Peter’ to “little pebble”(in Greek due to male a female tense of language) to support their theology when Cephas means ‘Bed Rock’ and would not fit their theology?
The message of the unity of the Church and to be obedient to it is all over in Corinthians. By golly its all over the Bible for that fact. Why else would a central authority (i.e. Paul) be writing letters all over the empire if it was not one Church?
Where did Jesus teach to divide His Church?
Where did Jesus teach not to obey the authority of His Church?
Where did St. Paul teach not to follow His instructions?
Where did St. Paul teach not to follow instructions from those he sent?
Where did St. Paul teach we should not be a member of a church(a local congregation)?
Good, I expect you to become Catholic soon to stick to the Words of God as you said.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
1 Cor 1:10 “10 I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.”
1 Cor 3:3-4 “3 for you are still of the flesh. While there is jealousy and rivalry among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving in an ordinary human way? 4 Whenever someone says, “I belong to Paul,” and another, “I belong to Apollos,” are you not merely human?”
Could we substitute ‘Luther’, ‘Smyth’, ‘Smith’, ‘Eddy’, etc. above? Unity, unity, unity is all over Scripture. We are parts of one body until we break off and follow another authority then the one God gave us, His Holy Catholic and apostolic Church.
There is one baptism in His body but many protestants take the plunge regularly. Its only symbolic you know in many sects?
A prisoner of Christ
Sorry that they’re not my words, they are the Words of God:
Eph 1:22-23 “22 And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.”
He formed the Church when He breathed into Cephas (ROCK or St. Peter), when He gave Cephas the ‘Keys’ to His kingdom, when He gave Cephas the power to bind or loose on earth. The Church began its ministry on Pentecost.
Just a question about Cephas. Why does the name ‘Cephas’ (meaning Kephas or Rock in Aramaic) not appear in the NKJV repeatedly? The name ‘Cephas’ was used regularly in the AKJV (The real King James Bible). Was it changed to ‘Peter’ so preachers could compare ‘Peter’ to “little pebble”(in Greek due to male a female tense of language) to support their theology when Cephas means ‘Bed Rock’ and would not fit their theology?
The message of the unity of the Church and to be obedient to it is all over in Corinthians. By golly its all over the Bible for that fact. Why else would a central authority (i.e. Paul) be writing letters all over the empire if it was not one Church?
Where did Jesus teach to divide His Church?
Where did Jesus teach not to obey the authority of His Church?
Where did St. Paul teach not to follow His instructions?
Where did St. Paul teach not to follow instructions from those he sent?
Where did St. Paul teach we should not be a member of a church(a local congregation)?
Good, I expect you to become Catholic soon to stick to the Words of God as you said.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
Your right when you say you are a Christian and of that I have no doubt. I can see you love God very much.
1 Cor 1:10 “10 I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.”
1 Cor 3:3-4 “3 for you are still of the flesh. While there is jealousy and rivalry among you, are you not of the flesh, and behaving in an ordinary human way? 4 Whenever someone says, “I belong to Paul,” and another, “I belong to Apollos,” are you not merely human?”
Could we substitute ‘Luther’, ‘Smyth’, ‘Smith’, ‘Eddy’, etc. above? Unity, unity, unity is all over Scripture. We are parts of one body until we break off and follow another authority then the one God gave us, His Holy Catholic and apostolic Church.
There is only one Faith in His body, but many in protestanism.
There is one baptism in His body but many protestants take the plunge regularly. Its only symbolic you know in many sects?
A prisoner of Christ
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Mango,
Go to this site and click on the introduction to each Book of Scripture, you will find good information on who the letters were written to. usccb.org/nab/bible/index.htm Unfortunately, we must often discern the problems the letters were to correct from the Scripture itself since records are sometimes no longer extant.
You can be a member of Christ’s Church, his body if you just go to your local RCIA class. I would love to see you in my Church and in my parish. I’d even be your sponser if you live in the Tulsa, OK. area. I’ve never met you but I’ll give time from my life over several months to help you on your journey to salvation and paradise. Praise God!
Allways glad to reply.
~mango~
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Ric,
From what I just read you said you agree with me. Thats a good start. Since no original Scripture is extant then all we have is Scripture translations which prove my point. We do still have the ORIGINAL Church Jesus founded. It is extant yesterday, today and tomorrow! Christ promised to be with His Church, not His translations.
Thank you for proving Sola Scripture wrong.
Also what are the verses that prove Sola Scriptura? I’ve never found any in any Bible translation. I can find numerous verses on authority, Tradition and unity.
I am so glad you use a ‘tool’ of the Catholic Church like the Bible, now isn’t it time you asked the mechanic how to use the tool?
Here is a web site of Jason who is on this Forum but another thread. He claims there are no errors in Scripture. We’ll at least not in his KJV since God gave us that one? Anyway, he seems to be a good Christian and has a large site. Check out his stuff on the Bible here: jcsm.org/ I do not say I agree with his views or information, just that his site is related to our topic here and he is a protestant of some sect or another for balance?
A prisoner of Christ
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Mango,
I hate it when this happens too. L
I’m glad you believe in the Catholic Tradition of the Trinity. With Solo Scripture you can’t believe it it since it prohibits it. Again proof Sola Scripture is a man made tradition since it is so easily proven wrong. I gues thats why the Southern Baptists are being taken over by Calvinists and subordinationism/polytheisim/multiple gods?
Look at these verses in “context”:
Mk 7:7-9 “7 In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts.’ 8 You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition." 9 He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition!”
Col 2:8 ”8 See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world and not according to Christ.”
Mt 15:3-6 “3 He said to them in reply, "And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and ‘Whoever curses father or mother shall die.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to father or mother, “Any support you might have had from me is dedicated to God,” 6 need not honor his father.’ You have nullified the word of God for the sake of your tradition.”
These above are great verses and apply to false man made theology like Luther’s and Smyth’s and Calvin’s. Things like Sola Fida and Sola Scripture which defile our soul and did not come from God and were not taught before 1517! Is that proof enough? Where would protestants be today if Catholics hadn’t written a Bible for them? Tradition in the Catholic Church is from God not man thus making it mandatory to follow. We had Tradition before we had a Bible. Which came first the Bible or Tradition? If you say the Bible then God wrote it and gave to someone?. If you say Tradition then God inspired someone to write the Bible (Scripture proves this right). Again Solo Scripture is proven wrong.
Lets look at these verses in"CONTEXT":
1 Cor 11:1-2 “Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. 2 I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.” (No Bible! No Sola Scripture!)
Thes 2:15 “Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.” (No Bible! No Sola Scripture!)
1 Tim 6:20-21 “O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge. 21 By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith…” {Not Bible alone but Tradition and not self-interpretation}
2 Tim 4:1-5 “I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who willjudge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingly power: 2 proclaim the word; be persistent whether it is convenient or inconvenient; convince, reprimand, encourage through all patience and teaching. 3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers 4 and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths. 5 But you, be self-possessed in all circumstances; put up with hardship; perform the work of an evangelist; fulfill your ministry.”
Jude 3 “…I now feel a need to write to encourage you to contend for the faith that was once for all handed down to the holy ones.” (How was it handed down? Via Gospel (ie spoken word) through Tradition in the Catholic Church)
Acts 5:20-21 “20 “Go and take your place in the temple area, and tell the people everything about this life.” 21 When they heard this, they went to the temple early in the morning and taught…” (Tradition)
Thes above verses prove Tradition is given by God!
A prisoner of Christ
PS. Whyile inking this out I think I saw your point about Tradition?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon3.gif Maybe what your saying is that the original Tradition is from God but Tradition like black clothing for priests or the Bible were made up later? Maybe I am seeing you point after all but I still say if it comes from Christs Church then it is still good. After all the Bible was added on by Tradition and you apear to love the Bible.
H
Heathen_Dawn
Guest
Tom of Assisi:
In Wicca They are worshipped by using magical ritual, which reenacts Their Mysteries. For example, the athame (magical knife) symbolises the God, and the wine-filled chalice the Goddess, and when the athame is dipped in the chalice, the union of the Goddess and the God takes place.
One Goddess and Her consort, the God: the Triple Goddess, so called because She appears as the waxing, full and waning moon, representing the Maiden, Mother and Crone stages of a woman’s life; and the Horned God, who appears as a man with horns or antlers on His head, and rules the sun. Wiccans commonly call the Goddess the Queen of Heaven.
In Wicca They are worshipped by using magical ritual, which reenacts Their Mysteries. For example, the athame (magical knife) symbolises the God, and the wine-filled chalice the Goddess, and when the athame is dipped in the chalice, the union of the Goddess and the God takes place.
Male witch. Warlock isn’t used, because it etymologically means “oath-breaker.” And I call myself Wiccan rather than witch, because people think of Harry Potter when you say witch. Wiccan magic has nothing to do with the magic in Harry Potter. As I say, if you’ve come to Wicca because of the HP books, then boy have you got problems…
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