Obama ‘Abruptly’ Walks Out of Debt Talks

[estesbob]

One of the reasons attributed to his winning the nomination was that, Barack Obama, a Democrat, opposed that war from its start.

Nonsense. He was and obscure state legislator when the vote was taken and he had didn’t have to vote on it. Given his record in the Illinois state Senate he probably would’ve abstained from voting anyway. .

 

[estesbob]

Geez? Oh well anyway their Commander in Chief at the time stood with the sign. Yet knowing it was not true, he could have “walked out” like Obama did with Cantor. To get back to the topic. March on. :compcoff:

Would you have preferred a sign that said “baby killing complete? Or perhaps a sign that said,” we bombed people for oil"? Or would you preferred the crew hung their heads in shame for disappointing liberal Americans? The left’s contempt for the military never ceases to amaze me

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Defaulting is not fiscally responsible; its fiscally disastrous. The simple fact is that the government hast to borrow money to operate and not just because it spends more than revenues allow. The Treasury doesn’t always have the cash on hand to pay bills as they come in even when the annual revenue allows it to pay them. The issue isn’t that the government borrows money. The issue is whether or not we can pay it back plus interest. Raising the debt ceiling isn’t optional at the present time and, even if spending is cut, the country is too far in debt to avoid an increase in taxes if we’re ever going to start paying it off.

Absolutely no reason to default. And absolutely no reason to raise taxes [which, in a recession, would be an economic disaster].

The Feds take in $5 Billion EACH DAY in taxes. Normal.

Interest on the debt is $1 Billion per day. No problem.

Social Security and Medicare cost $2 Billion per day.

That leaves $2 Billion per day for Federal government operating expenses.

Not a problem.

 

[estesbob]

Absolutely no reason to default. And absolutely no reason to raise taxes [which, in a recession, would be an economic disaster].

The Feds take in $5 Billion EACH DAY in taxes. Normal.

Interest on the debt is $1 Billion per day. No problem.

Social Security and Medicare cost $2 Billion per day.

That leaves $2 Billion per day for Federal government operating expenses.

Not a problem.

Perhaps they should just shut down the Department of Education, Department of Energy, Department of Commerce, Department of Labor and OSHA- all of would spend massive amounts of public money while interfering in the lives of ordinary American.

In my opinion the only real cabinet positions we need is a Treasury Department a State Department and a Defense Department.

 

[Darryl1958]

Well, WMDs and all. Wasting My Dollars.

Obama has continued the Bush campaign against terror more agressively than Bush.
He has proven himself to be more practical than his words or his base of support in that regard.

He has unfortunately been haphazard and undirected in his approach.
Given that the position of the left has been so foolish and unattached to reality, this is to be expected. Problematic also is his leading from behind in Libya without regard to the n America law or world realconsequences, and his insipid responses to the same movements in Syria and Iran, where any change would have been better than the status quo.
Nevertheless, he has continued and expanded the Bush campaign.
Dollars well spent.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Obama has continued the Bush campaign against terror more agressively than Bush.
He has proven himself to be more practical than his words or his base of support in that regard.

He has unfortunately been haphazard and undirected in his approach.
Given that the position of the left has been so foolish and unattached to reality, this is to be expected. Problematic also is his leading from behind in Libya without regard to the n America law or world realconsequences, and his insipid responses to the same movements in Syria and Iran, where any change would have been better than the status quo.
Nevertheless, he has continued and expanded the Bush campaign.
Dollars well spent.

Which is why the Christmas Panty Bomber was ordered to be allowed to get on the plane.

Yep.

 

[Carlan]

That’s not what I said is it.

Democrats supported the war till it became politically beneficial to oppose it. You can hold on to the Bush lied people died mantra the rest of your life for all I care. It shows a lack of understanding and knowledge of what’s happened since.

How about saying ,until the Dems and the rest of us caught on to the hoodwink of the Neoconservatives, Chenny,and the rest of them(I have forgotten the names ,was that other biggie, Mr Wolfurwitch,excuse my spelling sirs! ) they disappeared into the woodwork,for the time being that is, although the peace loving amongst us surely hope it will be forever.
Peace, Carlan

 

[Carlan]

Perhaps they should just shut down the Department of Education, Department of Energy, Department of Commerce, Department of Labor and OSHA- all of would spend massive amounts of public money while interfering in the lives of ordinary American.

In my opinion the only real cabinet positions we need is a Treasury Department a State Department and a Defense Department.

The opinion of a true… What’s your guess?
Pray for Peace, Carlan

 

[estesbob]

The opinion of a true… What’s your guess?
Pray for Peace, Carlan

“pinko commie”?

 

[estesbob]

How about saying ,until the Dems and the rest of us caught on to the hoodwink of the Neoconservatives, Chenny,and the rest of them(I have forgotten the names ,was that other biggie, Mr Wolfurwitch,excuse my spelling sirs! ) they disappeared into the woodwork,for the time being that is, although the peace loving amongst us surely hope it will be forever.
Peace, Carlan

How about saying ,until the Republicans and the rest of us caught on to the hoodwink of the pinko commies , Harry Reid,and the rest of them(I have forgotten the names ,was that other biggie, , Nancy Pelosi) ,disappeared into the woodwork,for the time being that is, although the peace loving amongst us surely hope it will be forever.

 

[kimmielittle]

Hey Kimmie,

They still haven’t answered my question on whether they have mailed in their extra funds to the IRS.

Didn’t Mr Obama say ALL unnecessary funds belong to the government, recently?

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

There is a but. Borrowing money, fine but you can’t expect to continue to borrow more than you can repay with interest and not run into bankruptcy.

Raising the debt ceiling isn’t optional. How to spend the money and generate the revenue necessary to pay off existing debt is a separate issue.

And what happens if the spending/borrowing and printing continue? The interest keeps piling on.

I don’t think anyone here is saying that we shouldn’t have a plan to address existing debt.

Spending has to be cut, borrowing has to be cut and printing has to be managed to keep inflation from making those of us here down at the bottom of the totem pole from being part of the poor.

And taxes must be raised to generate additional revenue.

Obama has no control over his spending, we went from Bush being fiscally irresponsible to Obama an immature teenager with an unlimited credit card.

No President has control over spending.

Borrowing more money than we can pay off in our lifetime and passing it on to a generation of citizens that DO NOT HAVE A VOTE is taxation without representation, and it is a mortal sin. We are stealing money from our kids and grandkids.

This country has always operated in debt and that isn’t the issue. The issue is whether or not the debt can be paid.

So you admit, we don’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

We have a revenue and spending problem.

Raising the debt ceiling will only make the spending problem worse and will do nothing for the revenue problem, so therefore raising the debt ceiling makes no sense.

Raising the debt ceiling is necessary for the government to operate because the Treasury must pay the nation’s bills as they come due and doesn’t always have the cash on hand to do it. it doesn’t have the luxury of prioritizing payments and deferring bills.

And absolutely no reason to raise taxes [which, in a recession, would be an economic disaster].

Additional revenue must be generated so taxes must be raised. Both Reagan and Clinton raised taxes during recessions and there was no economic disaster.

Not a problem.

The Treasury outlays vary daily and monthly so its not as tidy as you’re presenting here. It also must pay bills as they come due; it can’t prioritize payments.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Perhaps they should just shut down the Department of Education, Department of Energy, Department of Commerce, Department of Labor and OSHA- all of would spend massive amounts of public money while interfering in the lives of ordinary American.

In my opinion the only real cabinet positions we need is a Treasury Department a State Department and a Defense Department.

I knew you’d come around to my way of thinking one of these days.

 

[stevegravy]

Raising the debt ceiling isn’t optional. How to spend the money and generate the revenue necessary to pay off existing debt is a separate issue.

I don’t think anyone here is saying that we shouldn’t have a plan to address existing debt.

And taxes must be raised to generate additional revenue.

No President has control over spending.

This country has always operated in debt and that isn’t the issue. The issue is whether or not the debt can be paid.

We have a revenue and spending problem.

Raising the debt ceiling is necessary for the government to operate because the Treasury must pay the nation’s bills as they come due and doesn’t always have the cash on hand to do it. it doesn’t have the luxury of prioritizing payments and deferring bills.

Additional revenue must be generated so taxes must be raised. Both Reagan and Clinton raised taxes during recessions and there was no economic disaster.

The Treasury outlays vary daily and monthly so its not as tidy as you’re presenting here. It also must pay bills as they come due; it can’t prioritize payments.

At 5 billion dollars a day intake the Fed. Govt. does not have a revenue issue. It has a way over blown ego issue of thinking it has to control every aspect of our lives issue.

First off I have yet to see anybody detail just what catastrophe is going to happen if the debt isn’t raised and I am asking for details. There is daily enough money coming in to pay social security, medicare, medicaid, military salaries and a hole lot more. Maybe not enough to keep shooting missals into Libya but BO says were not in a war there anyway. I for one am tired of endless war and if this starts people thinking about it then good. Don’t raise the debt.

I think of not raising the debt as a balanced budget amendment without a balanced budget amendment. The Fed only spends what it receive. What a draconian future.

Also if there is some unseemly bill comes due and BO aint got the money he ought to pay it off with those special treasury obligations that the Fed used to take the social security tax when social security was running a surplus.

 

[kimmielittle]

At 5 billion dollars a day intake the Fed. Govt. does not have a revenue issue. It has a way over blown ego issue of thinking it has to control every aspect of our lives issue.

First off I have yet to see anybody detail just what catastrophe is going to happen if the debt isn’t raised and I am asking for details. There is daily enough money coming in to pay social security, medicare, medicaid, military salaries and a hole lot more. Maybe not enough to keep shooting missals into Libya but BO says were not in a war there anyway. I for one am tired of endless war and if this starts people thinking about it then good. Don’t raise the debt.

I think of not raising the debt as a balanced budget amendment without a balanced budget amendment. The Fed only spends what it receive. What a draconian future.

Also if there is some unseemly bill comes due and BO aint got the money he ought to pay it off with those special treasury obligations that the Fed used to take the social security tax when social security was running a surplus.

 

[kimmielittle]

My original question was removed…and I’m wise enough not to question why.

But I do have an earnest question that no one has addressed for me.

How is it good economic stewardship to raise the debt ceiling and taxes - without an audit of the Fed and a balanced budget?

If this is an offensive question, please moderators, forgive me.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

My original question was removed…and I’m wise enough not to question why.

But I do have an earnest question that no one has addressed for me.

How is it good economic stewardship to raise the debt ceiling and taxes - without an audit of the Fed and a balanced budget?

If this is an offensive question, please moderators, forgive me.

It is perfectly valid and legitimate question. Before asking to borrow more money, let’s take a look at how you’ve been spending it.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

At 5 billion dollars a day intake the Fed. Govt. does not have a revenue issue. It has a way over blown ego issue of thinking it has to control every aspect of our lives issue.

Perhaps you missed the point. The tax cuts are an expense because the Treasury must borrow money to replace the lost revenue. The less tax money the Treasury brings in the more it hast to borrow. We can’t afford the Bush tax cuts anymore. Plain and simple.

There is daily enough money coming in to pay social security, medicare, medicaid, military salaries and a hole lot more.

The Treasury doesn’t have the option of selectively paying bills. It must pay bills as they come due and the bills for social security, medicare, etc… don’t always come in first. The Treasury doesn’t have the cash on hand to pay for social security, medicare, etc. but it can’t defer those payments either so it must borrow to pay for it.

First off I have yet to see anybody detail just what catastrophe is going to happen if the debt isn’t raised and I am asking for details.

If the debt ceiling isn’t raised then the Treasury can’t borrow money. If the Treasury can’t borrow money then the nation’s bills don’t get paid. That means that people don’t get social security checks, medicare bills aren’t paid, government and military workers don’t get paid, etc. The government would also default on debt and interest payments which translates directly into higher interest rates and divestment on the part of our creditors. This would cause American debt to spiral out of control as the interest alone would eventually exceed the original debt. We run the risk of making it impossible to ever pay off the debt and entering into an infinite cycle of default and interest rate increases. The government would have no choice but to print copious amounts of new money in order to operate which leads to high inflation. Playing these kind of games with the debt ceiling, once its already been reached, is a recipe for economic collapse. The clock is ticking and we don’t have the luxury of academic debate over this issue.

 

[kimmielittle]

It is perfectly valid and legitimate question. Before asking to borrow more money, let’s take a look at how you’ve been spending it.

Thank you

Sometimes, my allowance I earn it ] just isn’t enough to get something I dearly want.

Sometimes, I can borrow from my Brother against my future allowance. BUT my future allowance has to pay it back. If I stack these debts, to my Brother, against future allowances… I would go months without any future purchases.

I can not raise my debt ceiling…I can negotiate for future chores, to add to my allowance - BUT I have to provide a valued labor to increase it. I can not tax my Brother The source of my allowance ] for my poor economic stewardship.

I can audit how I spend my allowance and cut wastes.

BUT I can not keep purchasing beyond my means. I don’t care HOW bad I want to.

I truly don’t get what some are in favor of.


PS I demand cash from my Brother - not a promise

 

[Trader]

Progressive Catholics protestations to the contrary, I am still trying to find were Jesus said take all of your neighbors goods and come, follow him,

What about 1 Kings 17:7-16 where the poor widow told Elijah to take a hike because she was too poor to provide the prophet with a little bread and water?

What about Luke 21: 1-4 and Mark 12:41-44 where Jesus praised the widow who pickpocketed the rich guys at the temple so she could contribute two small coins?

What about Luke 10: 25-37 where the Samaritan organized pickets to demand that Ceasar provide general assistance for the man beaten by robbers? Unfortunately commincations were so slow in those days that the man bled to death before news of the protest even reached Rome.

Oops The above may have come from a bad translation. Maybe I should not have quit Greek class the first day.

Did you forget that the Church canonized both Robin Hood and Karl Marx because they had such good feelings about the poor?

Oops That may have come from eating my own cooking. I have to clean out that refrigerator one of these days.