Obama ‘Abruptly’ Walks Out of Debt Talks

[stevegravy]

Perhaps you missed the point. The tax cuts are an expense because the Treasury must borrow money to replace the lost revenue. The less tax money the Treasury brings in the more it hast to borrow. We can’t afford the Bush tax cuts anymore. Plain and simple.

No I don’t think so. The tax cuts were tax payers keeping some of their own money. The idea that it is an expense presumes the money was owned by the government in the first place. This aint Sweden yet. I don’t think we can afford the nanny state. Kick some of those piggies off the sows teat and there may not even be an issue.

The Treasury doesn’t have the option of selectively paying bills. It must pay bills as they come due and the bills for social security, medicare, etc… don’t always come in first. The Treasury doesn’t have the cash on hand to pay for social security, medicare, etc. but it can’t defer those payments either so it must borrow to pay for it.

You make a cash budget you know when fixed expenses have to go out. You hold the money for the day that those bills get paid. For example Social Security has to go out at end of each month so money deposited in seniors accounts on the first of each month. You keep enough to cover the known expense. With the exception of payrolls, everything else you just push off to payment in 180 days just like any old big business. If you run out of money for payrolls you issue temporary lay offs.

If the debt ceiling isn’t raised then the Treasury can’t borrow money. If the Treasury can’t borrow money then the nation’s bills don’t get paid. That means that people don’t get social security checks, medicare bills aren’t paid, government and military workers don’t get paid, etc. The government would also default on debt and interest payments which translates directly into higher interest rates and divestment on the part of our creditors. This would cause American debt to spiral out of control as the interest alone would eventually exceed the original debt. We run the risk of making it impossible to ever pay off the debt and entering into an infinite cycle of default and interest rate increases. The government would have no choice but to print copious amounts of new money in order to operate which leads to high inflation. Playing these kind of games with the debt ceiling, once its already been reached, is a recipe for economic collapse.

And the debit ceiling doesn’t get raised what’s the problem there is still 5 billion a day coming in. Enough to cover interest social security medicaid, medicare and military salaries with some left over. If our government is so incompetent, it can not balance a cash budget with 5 billion a day than too bad for us. Incompetent fiscal policies did the Weimar Republic in, so it does us in. You think we are exempt from the effects of poor management control of bureaucrats who are rewarded for spending money they don’t have to spend rather than saving money. I say prove the sky will fall. All I have seen is the politicians wont be able to squeeze the milk out to their favorite piggies.

I shall add another observation, the government, through its uncontrolled and haphazard and unscientific promulgation of rules and regulation have shut down industries right and left. Funny how the lack of an industrial base is causing government revenues to shrink.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Kick some of those piggies off the sows teat and there may not even be an issue.

Easier said than done when the biggest federal trough is Social Security and Medicare. Those piggies don’t move away from the trough very easily.

 

[stevegravy]

Did you forget that the Church canonized both Robin Hood and Karl Marx because they had such good feelings about the poor?

Robin Hood didn’t do a thing for the poor he took the sharif’s tax collections and returned them back to the tax payer. Bush did a bad imitation of him with his tax cuts.

 

[Carlan]

How about saying ,until the Republicans and the rest of us caught on to the hoodwink of the pinko commies , Harry Reid,and the rest of them(I have forgotten the names ,was that other biggie, , Nancy Pelosi) ,disappeared into the woodwork,for the time being that is, although the peace loving amongst us surely hope it will be forever.

Very clever and Infantile…at the same time. Scraping the barrel is really beginning to show us up I am afraid.
The thread really does need more intelligent posters as in the Emperor Napoleon!
I give over.
Peace, to all, Carlan

 

[stevegravy]

Easier said than done when the biggest federal trough is Social Security and Medicare. Those piggies don’t move away from the trough very easily.

But go after the ADM’s, corn for ethanol, green energy boondoggles, light rails no one is going to use Amtrak subsidies, let the military close the bases it wants to, same with the post office eliminate Sat. mail deliveries et cetera. a billion here a billion there pretty soon you got real money

 

[estesbob]

Very clever and Infantile…at the same time. Scraping the barrel is really beginning to show us up I am afraid.
The thread really does need more intelligent posters as in the Emperor Napoleon!
I give over.
Peace, to all, Carlan

Very clever and Infantile…at the same time. Scraping the barrel is really beginning to show us up I am afraid.

The thread really does need more intelligent posters as in the Trader!
*I give over. *

Hopefully you’re beginning to see how shallow your posts. meaningless diatribes full of ad hominem , interchangeable villains and no substance whatsoever

 

[stinkcat_14]

But go after the ADM’s, corn for ethanol, green energy boondoggles, light rails no one is going to use Amtrak subsidies, let the military close the bases it wants to, same with the post office eliminate Sat. mail deliveries et cetera. a billion here a billion there pretty soon you got real money

Those are all great things to shut down, but they will never come close to solving the problem.

If you look at the following chart, 20% of the budget is Social Security, another 23% is government healthcare, and 20% is defense spending. When you take these off the table, it becomes almost impossible to balance the budget.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S.Federal_Spending-_FY_2007.png

But the biggest problem is the effect of these programs on our collective laziness. In the 1880s, 75% of men over 65 worked. Today it is around 17%, due mainly to that government dole called Social Security. Raise the retirement age for Social Security for the able bodied to 75 and not only will Social Security stay solvent but GDP will go up because people will have to work more.

 

[estesbob]

Perhaps you missed the point. The tax cuts are an expense because the Treasury must borrow money to replace the lost revenue. The less tax money the Treasury brings in the more it hast to borrow. We can’t afford the Bush tax cuts anymore. Plain and simple.

So not taking my money is an expense? . This feod not Sound like a political philosophy as much as it sounds like an interview with John Dillinger

The Treasury doesn’t have the option of selectively paying bills. It must pay bills as they come due and the bills for social security, medicare, etc… don’t always come in first. The Treasury doesn’t have the cash on hand to pay for social security, medicare, etc. but it can’t defer those payments either so it must borrow to pay for it.

. Of course it does. It has total control over what bills it pays first.

if the debt ceiling isn’t raised then the Treasury can’t borrow money. If the Treasury can’t borrow money then the nation’s bills don’t get paid. That means that people don’t get social security checks, medicare bills aren’t paid, government and military workers don’t get paid, etc. The government would also default on debt and interest payments which translates directly into higher interest rates and divestment on the part of our creditors. This would cause American debt to spiral out of control as the interest alone would eventually exceed the original debt. We run the risk of making it impossible to ever pay off the debt and entering into an infinite cycle of default and interest rate increases. The government would have no choice but to print copious amounts of new money in order to operate which leads to high inflation. Playing these kind of games with the debt ceiling, once its already been reached, is a recipe for economic collapse. The clock is ticking and we don’t have the luxury of academic debate over this issue.

. Now that is s a leap of logic-if the debt ceiling is not raised, which keeps us from incurring more debt, that causes the debt the spiral out of control?

. The debt ceiling will indeed be raised , but only after the Obama administration and his Democratic counterparts agree to get a handle on spending. no more blank check.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

They have five billion dollars a day to spend. Because that is all the money that there is coming in.

Five Billion Dollars a day.

$5,000,000,000.00

That sounds so ridiculous.

Anyway, $2 billion does to old folks and cripples … Social Security and Medicare.

$1 billion goes to service the debt … or at least pay the interest.

And then there is $2 billion left over to spend on whatever you want to.

But that’s all there is.

So, you put all the bills in a hat and pick out $2 billion worth each day.

Can you imagine …

That’s it.

If you can’t pay vendors, then they will stop doing business with you.

But if you really want their stuff, then you will have to juggle.

You want the Army guys and the Navy SEALS and Air Force One, so you pay them.

You want the Treasury Dept, but you can live without Timmy … he just gets you into trouble. What the heck is on his resume, anyway?

What else … well, you own almost all of Alaska and most of Nevada.

So you cut a deal with Boeing and do a trade … more C-17’s for part of Alaska.

Like that.

But you gots $5 billion a day … and that’s all. You use a cash only budget. In God we trust, all others pay cash.

What a dilemma … “ONLY” $5 Billion a day to spend.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Geez? Oh well anyway their Commander in Chief at the time stood with the sign. Yet knowing it was not true, he could have “walked out” like Obama did with Cantor. To get back to the topic. March on. :compcoff:

So Matt, when are you giving it all away and following Jesus?

Well, maybe Jesus said “only if you make more than $250K”?

Envy in a mortal sin.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

So Matt, when are you giving it all away and following Jesus?

Well, maybe Jesus said “only if you make more than $250K”?

Envy in a mortal sin.

I think CMatt25 should set the example… He wants more taxes… He should mail the IRS more funds

 

[sub_rosa]

Very clever and Infantile…at the same time. Scraping the barrel is really beginning to show us up I am afraid.

The thread really does need more intelligent posters as in the Trader!
*I give over. *

Hopefully you’re beginning to see how shallow your posts. meaningless diatribes full of ad hominem , interchangeable villains and no substance whatsoever

Just a little bit curious. You are a forum elder. Does this mean you work for the forum? You seem to be here 24/7 and I wonder how does one earn the title “forum elder” and also “prayer warrior”. I think I know the answer to the former but not the latter. Would you mind explaining since i am new here.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Just a little bit curious. You are a forum elder. Does this mean you work for the forum? You seem to be here 24/7 and I wonder how does one earn the title “forum elder” and also “prayer warrior”. I think I know the answer to the former but not the latter. Would you mind explaining since i am new here.

Forum Elder means you have been a registered member for a long time and have a minimum of 10,000 posts (I believe)

 

[sub_rosa]

Forum Elder means you have been a registered member for a long time and have a minimum of 10,000 posts (I believe)

Thank you. I guess if one has that many posts one is here 24/7. BTW i have enoyed your posts.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Thank you. I guess if one has that many posts one is here 24/7. BTW i have enoyed your posts.

Thanks. I do get testy sometimes, beware. I’ve been a member since the day the forums opened.

 

[CMatt25]

Just a little bit curious. You are a forum elder. Does this mean you work for the forum? You seem to be here 24/7 and I wonder how does one earn the title “forum elder” and also “prayer warrior”. I think I know the answer to the former but not the latter. Would you mind explaining since i am new here.

Hi sub rosa, I know you are new here but I suspect even some of us here longer didn’t know the answers to your question. This link I’m providing, unless the rules have changed, says 15,000 and 5 yrs for a forum elder. I don’t see prayer warrior listed in this link I’m providing. But I consider myself a prayer warrior in real life anyway. Hope this helps though! God bless and peace.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=316437

 

[Arkadin]

Makes sense.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

The Federal Government takes in Five Billion Dollars a day … just from normal regular taxation.

So, from today on, only write checks that total Five Billion Dollars a day. When that is done, go home early.

Of that Five Billion daily income, roughly One Billion gets paid out daily for Social Security, One Billion per day for Medicare, and One Billion per day for interest on the national debt, leaving Two Billion per day for operating the government.

Under George Bush, the deficit was around One Billion per day in response to the September 11 attacks. And it was down to about one-fourth of a Billion per day just before that phony Wall Street home mortgage melt down crisis when everybody panicked.

President Obama has been running deficits of Four or Five Billion per day. With total spending at around Ten Billion Dollars per day. Under ObamaCare, the daily spending would be up around Thirteen Billion Dollars per day.

So, all we need to do is cut off spending at actual collections … Five Billion Dollars per day.

We can also work at improving the efficiency of some of the operations. Perhaps following the Galveston Plan for Social Security. Or allowing people to follow the Indiana Plan, their choice, for Medical Insurance. Or eliminating duplication … don’t need both the Federal EPA AND the individual states’ DEP’s, so send home the EPA employees. Lay them off … the way the automobile companies lay off people or close dealerships.

The Federal Energy Dept has not worked out. It doesn’t produce any energy and has worsened our dependence on foreign energy. Send those folks home. Find jobs in the shale oil and shale gas fields.

The Federal Education Dept has not worked out. Our kids are worse off since that group got started. Send those folks home. Let them enter the inner city schools as basic teachers, working for the local city boards of education. Maybe start a charter school or two, on their own.

Go through the whole Federal roster the same way.

No money for ethanol subsidies. Fine. No money for solar and wind subsidies. Fine.

And the Federal government has huge assets … most of Alaska and most of Nevada and lots of other things. Sell those to the states and let the states charge admission.

Privatize the Columbia River hydroelectric system and the Tennessee Valley Authority and the Interstate Highway System. And use the revenues to pay down the actual national debt. That’s what Dave Ramsey would suggest. Common sense. But we do have enemies … the guys who launch daily cyber attacks on the Pentagon … so don’t sell to them.

But Two Billion per day for operations is quite enough.

If the IRS can be operated with fewer employees by switching to a Flat Tax or to a Fair Tax, then do that.

The economy can only support just a certain amount of taxation before things start to shut down and it looks like Five Billion Dollars a day is the maximum until we grow the economy to a larger size.

We do have resources to grow the economy … we can develop MUCH more oil, natural gas, coal and nuclear energy and that will fuel the economy.

The military has already been downsized significantly … high tech stuff such as the man in space program has been eliminated … The shuttle, which had some military missions, is gone and the replacement Ares/Orion and related programs have been canceled. The replacement for the Hubble Space telescope has been canceled; the Hubble Telescope can no longer be serviced without the Shuttle. Our military hardware is mostly now 1960’s designs with the modern F-22 terminated. We will just run out what we have. The Navy has been continuously downsized. Keep in mind that each time we downsize the military, that has increased our vulnerability … in the past, each downsizing has led to an enemy attack. Clinton’s downsizing was followed by the 9/11 attacks. Truman’s downsizing was followed by the North Korean attack on South Korea. And the disarmament of the 1930’s led to WWII.

Maybe too esoteric for some. What will be the next attack on the U.S? An EMP strike? How well could we live without electricity for two or three years?

Five Billion Dollars A Day in tax revenue …

Cap spending at Five Billion Dollars a day.

 

[stinkcat_14]

The Federal Government takes in Five Billion Dollars a day … just from normal regular taxation.

So, from today on, only write checks that total Five Billion Dollars a day. When that is done, go home early.

Of that Five Billion daily income, roughly One Billion gets paid out daily for Social Security, One Billion per day for Medicare, and One Billion per day for interest on the national debt, leaving Two Billion per day for operating the government.
.

If we are broke, everything has to be on the table, including SS and Medicare, after all neither program is a contractual obligation, they are nothing but welfare. And welfare can be cut when times are tough. Just say to the recipients, “you’ll have to take care of things on your own for a while till times get better”. But the fact that neither party is interested in touching these programs just tells us that the deficit will never ever get solved.

 

[mary_bobo]

If we are broke, everything has to be on the table, including SS and Medicare, after all neither program is a contractual obligation, they are nothing but welfare. And welfare can be cut when times are tough. Just say to the recipients, “you’ll have to take care of things on your own for a while till times get better”. But the fact that neither party is interested in touching these programs just tells us that the deficit will never ever get solved.

Oh contrere. The GOP has offered a plan to tackle medicare and SS, and the dems have demogogued it. The plan calls for those 55 and over to continue on as they are. But that is not what the dems tell us. It is obvious to me that adjustments are going to have to be made to both of those programs, and others, if we are ever going to get a handle on this mess. Even the commission appointed by the president has said as much. Why appoint commission if we are going to ignore their conclusions? What a waste of money.