Obama ‘Abruptly’ Walks Out of Debt Talks

[stinkcat_14]

Oh contrere. The GOP has offered a plan to tackle medicare and SS, and the dems have demogogued it. The plan calls for those 55 and over to continue on as they are. But that is not what the dems tell us. It is obvious to me that adjustments are going to have to be made to both of those programs, and others, if we are ever going to get a handle on this mess. Even the commission appointed by the president has said as much. Why appoint commission if we are going to ignore their conclusions? What a waste of money.

The Paul Ryan plan was better than most, but even it didn’t go far enough. We need to cut Medicare spending now, not in 10 years. An easy first step would be to end Medicare Part D, seniors survived many decades without the federal government paying for their drugs and they can easily go back to paying their own way. The easy second step would be to eliminate the subsidy for Medicare Part B from the general tax coffers. Seniors only pay about 25% of the premium for part B and there is no economic rationale for not making them pay their fair share, which is the full cost of the program. After all, the ones who benefit from the program should pay the full cost.

I did not see the Republican plan to cut Social Security spending, perhaps you can link to it.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

In debt ceiling talks, Obama offers to cut $2 billion from next year’s spending?
One almost has to read this Reuter’s news article a few times to make sure that you read it correctly. In a budget of some $3.73 trillion (see Table S-1), Obama is willing to cut $2 billion in spending. That is 5 hundredths of one percent! How can anyone cut so little? Obviously, the Democrats want to push of any cuts, even small ones well off into the future, so they can be undone at a future date. Taxes though are to start right now. My previous post showed how Obama wasn’t willing to name any cuts in his press conference yesterday.

The Obama budget of $3.73 Trillion is $10 billion per day.

We need to cut from $10 Billion per day to $5 Billion per day.

Not by $2 billion per year!

We need to cut $5 billion PER DAY!!!

Click here for Table S-1

whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/budget.pdf

 

[stevegravy]

The 2 billion dollar cut covers about as much time as it has taken for us to learn Obama’s lack of mastery of cliches

From Mark Steyn: No bargaining with Barack Obluffer:

articles.ocregister.com/2011-07-15/news/29782750_1_debt-ceiling-negotiations-borrowers-unsustainable-levels

 

[CMatt25]

Jesus worked as a carpenter.

Jesus also had His garments stripped from Him, was spat on, had all sorts of things done to HIm. That in no way means in budget talks the poor and middle class should be asked to sacrifice and carry the heaviest burden on their backs more than the rich are.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Jesus also had His garments stripped from Him, was spat on, had all sort sorts of things done to HIm. That in no way means the poor should be asked to sacrifice more than the rich.

But it also means that the poor shouldn’t be kept poor either by entitlement programs either. They should have some skin in the game as well.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Also, St. Paul states that those unwilling to work should also be unwilling to eat. How does this fit into your outlook?

 

[CMatt25]

Envy in a mortal sin.

:yawn: Irrelevant. Fairness and social justice are not.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

:yawn: Irrelevant. Fairness and social justice are not.

Theft is.

 

[CMatt25]

Also, St. Paul states that those unwilling to work should also be unwilling to eat. How does this fit into your outlook?

St Paul said many things. He also said women are not to speak in churches. How does that fit into yours? At the last Catholic Mass I was at, women were speaking. I’m not about to judge how many of the poor are unwilling to work. I’ll leave that to you and the one priest I heard in whose homliy he said during the recession, that his answer to the poor was to get a job. It is things like this that turn me off.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

St Paul said many things. He also said women are not to speak in churches. How does that fit into yours? At the last Catholic Mass I was at, women were speaking. I’m not about to judge how many of the poor are unwilling to work. I’ll leave that to you and the one priest I heard in whose homliy he said during the recession, that his answer to the poor was to get a job. It is things like this that turn me off.

What’s the problem with the poor getting a job, if they are able bodied? Even if they have mental and or physical issues, why can’t they contribute something?

 

[iamrefreshed]

:yawn: Irrelevant. Fairness and social justice are not.

Try that when you stand in front of Him.

Did you give everything away yet? Or do you just want to give away what others have?

 

[stinkcat_14]

Theft is.

Who is stealing from whom? Jesus never condemned taxes as theft.

 

[estesbob]

Jesus also had His garments stripped from Him, was spat on, had all sorts of things done to HIm. That in no way means in budget talks the poor and middle class should be asked to sacrifice and carry the heaviest burden on their backs more than the rich are.

Since the top 25% of earners in this country pay 84% of the income taxes there is no way one can claim that the poor and middle class are carrying the heaviest burden. . In fact, 43% bear no federal income tax burden at all. As is always the case class warfare arguments fall apart when the facts are made known.

.

 

[rlg94086]

St Paul said many things. He also said women are not to speak in churches. How does that fit into yours? At the last Catholic Mass I was at, women were speaking. I’m not about to judge how many of the poor are unwilling to work. I’ll leave that to you and the one priest I heard in whose homliy he said during the recession, that his answer to the poor was to get a job. It is things like this that turn me off.

Why do you try to discount St Paul quotes every time they are presented?

 

[stevegravy]

:yawn: Irrelevant. Fairness and social justice are not.

Finally getting to the point who deserves what?

From Mark Steyn: No bargaining with Barack Obluffer:
“The somebody who has our money is the government. They waste it on self-aggrandizing ideologue nitwits like Van Jones and his “green jobs” racket. How’s the “green jobs” scene in your town? Going gangbusters, is it? Every day these guys burn through so much that they can never bridge the gap. By that, I don’t mean that an American government that raises two trillion but spends four trillion has outspent America, but that it’s outspent the planet. In my soon-to-be-imminently-forthcoming book, I discuss a study published last year by John Kitchen of the U.S. Treasury and Menzie Chinn of the University of Wisconsin. Its very title is testament to where we’re headed:

“Financing U.S. Debt: Is There Enough Money In The World – And At What Cost?”

The authors’ answer is yes, technically, there is enough money in the world – in the sense that, on current projections, by 2020 all it will take to finance the Government of the United States is for the rest of the planet to be willing to sink 19 percent of its GDP into U.S. Treasury debt.”
All things considered at some point you have to take the red pill. Given the relative wealth of the welfare class in the US vs the world and the worlds own issues do you really think the planet will sink year after year into the US 20% of its GDP. And who is the welfare class folks getting:
Government student loans
Medicaid
Medicare
Social Security and Social Security Disability
Government housing
Home mortgage interest deductions
Food stamps
Federal Flood Insurance
Farm subsidies and the ethanol program My personal favorite
The entire VA medical system
Federal Unemployment insurance
And your own middle class welfare Obamacare.

 

[mary_bobo]

The Paul Ryan plan was better than most, but even it didn’t go far enough. We need to cut Medicare spending now, not in 10 years. An easy first step would be to end Medicare Part D, seniors survived many decades without the federal government paying for their drugs and they can easily go back to paying their own way. The easy second step would be to eliminate the subsidy for Medicare Part B from the general tax coffers. Seniors only pay about 25% of the premium for part B and there is no economic rationale for not making them pay their fair share, which is the full cost of the program. After all, the ones who benefit from the program should pay the full cost.

I did not see the Republican plan to cut Social Security spending, perhaps you can link to it.

I have not figured out how to link, but here is excerpt from the Ryan Plan:

The proposal strengthens this important retirement program and makes it sustainable for the long term.
•Preserves the existing Social Security program for those 55 or older.
•Offers workers under 55 the option of investing over one third of their current Social Security taxes into personal retirement accounts, similar to the Thrift Savings Plan available to Federal employees. Includes a property right so they can pass on these assets to their heirs, and a guarantee that individuals will not lose a dollar they contribute to their accounts, even after inflation.
•Makes the program permanently solvent – according to the Congressional Budget Office [CBO] – by combining a more realistic measure of growth in Social Security’s initial benefits, with an eventual modernization of the retirement age.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Since the top 25% of earners in this country pay 84% of the income taxes there is no way one can claim that the poor and middle class are carrying the heaviest burden. . In fact, 43% bear no federal income tax burden at all. As is always the case class warfare arguments fall apart when the facts are made known.

.

God forbid you bring up facts.

Can the rich afford to pay more in taxes? Maybe.

However, to say that somehow they are not saying they are not already getting the brunt of the taxes is simply dishonest.

There are simply other issues that need to be addressed as well as raising tax rates on arbitrary income level.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Why do you try to discount St Paul quotes every time they are presented?

Sounds like selective reading of the Bible.

Isn’t that a bit Protestant?

 

[estesbob]

Why do you try to discount St Paul quotes every time they are presented?

Mainly because, as with many who try to claim Jesus is on their side ,they base their arguments one what Jesus did not say rather than what anybody in Scripture did say.

For instance since Jesus never mentioned abortion or homosexuality. that means these are okay. . However, St. Paul’s specific condemnation of homosexual behavior is dismissed as the rants of a misogynist who wouldn’t even allow women to speak in church.

 

[estesbob]

God forbid you bring up facts.

Can the rich afford to pay more in taxes? Maybe.

However, to say that somehow they are not saying they are not already getting the brunt of the taxes is simply dishonest.

There are simply other issues that need to be addressed as well as raising tax rates on arbitrary income level.

. Is it any wonder that the 75% that pay little or no taxes are enthusiastic about raising taxes on the 25% that due? again one must keep in mind when we hear “progressives” call for shared sacrifice they want to be on the share end of the equation.

 

[stevegravy]

Who is stealing from whom? Jesus never condemned taxes as theft.

I don’t think the new testament discussed income tax and representative government much. But representing US debt as theft is interesting. I personally see it as fraud; spending un-born generations income today with no intention of paying it back. But I do not have any background in criminal law so maybe somebody can help me out here.