Obama ‘Abruptly’ Walks Out of Debt Talks

[Darryl1958]

The sin of Sodom and Gomorah. Ezek 16:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold this was the iniquity of Sodom thy sister, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance, and the idleness of her, and of her daughters: and they did not put forth their hand to the needy, and to the poor.

The story of Sodom and Gomorah is actually quite instructive here.

First of all, let’s note being a conservative in no way implies that anyone here wants to gang-rape angels, or even outsiders or blacks for that matter. Stressing the virtue of smaller government and private charity is miles away from what the people of Sodom attempted to do to Lot’s guests.

But second, a comparison of Abrahams welcoming of the outside guests, and Lot’s welcome is even more pertinent to the modern situation.

Abraham’s private charity, complete with place of honor and feast of fatted calf was magnanimous, generous and warm. Lot however, who offfered up the sanctity and virginity of his next generation in order to save the literal butts of the guest went way, way over the top, imho.

It is a question of perspective then, not of no government largesse, but of not selling the farm to show off how great and compassionate and welcoming we all are to the outsider, or the historically oppressed for that matter.

That is what is so often lacking in the liberal perspective in these discussions.

Perspective.

Debt destroys the wealth of future generations. It is frivolous to offer their butts to pay for things that are within our means to pay for ourselves.

 

[rlg94086]

You know very well that everything we have is a gift from God. If you do not know that, then maybe that is why you cannot see.

Matthew 22:

17 11 Tell us, then, what is your opinion: Is it lawful to pay the census tax to Caesar or not?" 18 Knowing their malice, Jesus said, “Why are you testing me, you hypocrites? 19 12 Show me the coin that pays the census tax.” Then they handed him the Roman coin. 20 He said to them, “Whose image is this and whose inscription?” 21 They replied, “Caesar’s.” 13 At that he said to them, “Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.” 22 When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away.

Apparently, Jesus seemed to think that money belonged to Caesar. He called the people who tried to trip him up on the subject, “hypocrites.” Where do you stand?

When he said “what belongs to God,” that seemed to apply to things other than money. If you are going to go “by every word,” you should probably bone up a little bit.

 

[CMatt25]

Well, CMatt25 did say “supposedly,” so perhaps he knew that Obama missed the mark on that one too…

Rig, thank you for paying attention. I have no more inside information than most any other citizen. But Obama says combat missions have ended in Iraq and until if and when they resume, I figure he should know since he is the Commander in Chief. I figure he made the call to get Bin Laden so he must be on top of some things.

 

[byeveryword]

Matthew 22:

Apparently, Jesus seemed to think that money belonged to Caesar. He called the people who tried to trip him up on the subject, “hypocrites.” Where do you stand?

When he said “what belongs to God,” that seemed to apply to things other than money. If you are going to go “by every word,” you should probably bone up a little bit.

Whose image was on the coin in scripture you cite? Ceasar’s.

What does each piece of U.S. monetary tender say? In God we trust.

 

[Suudy]

Whose image was on the coin in scripture you cite? Ceasar’s.

What does each piece of U.S. monetary tender say? In God we trust.

Ah! So if we remove “In God We Trust” it is no longer God’s money? In other words, we decided if it’s God’s or not?

 

[rlg94086]

Whose image was on the coin in scripture you cite? Ceasar’s.

What does each piece of U.S. monetary tender say? In God we trust.

We do trust in God…but our money is inscribed with “THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,” which is our equivalent of Caesar. It’s even signed by the Secretary of the Treasury and the Treasurer of the United States. The fact that we trust in God has no bearing on who is printing the money. Nice try though.

 

[byeveryword]

The story of Sodom and Gomorah is actually quite instructive here.

First of all, let’s note being a conservative in no way implies that anyone here wants to gang-rape angels, or even outsiders or blacks for that matter. Stressing the virtue of smaller government and private charity is miles away from what the people of Sodom attempted to do to Lot’s guests.

But second, a comparison of Abrahams welcoming of the outside guests, and Lot’s welcome is even more pertinent to the modern situation.

Abraham’s private charity, complete with place of honor and feast of fatted calf was magnanimous, generous and warm. Lot however, who offfered up the sanctity and virginity of his next generation in order to save the literal butts of the guest went way, way over the top, imho.

It is a question of perspective then, not of no government largesse, but of not selling the farm to show off how great and compassionate and welcoming we all are to the outsider, or the historically oppressed for that matter.

That is what is so often lacking in the liberal perspective in these discussions.

Perspective.

Debt destroys the wealth of future generations. It is frivolous to offer their butts to pay for things that are within our means to pay for ourselves.

How do you know I am a liberal? This is the problem with American politics…can not someone be a disciple of Jesus Christ without being labeled conservative or liberal?

The Ezekiel quotation is an explanation of why the people of Sodom and Gomorah were perverted rapists. They were full of bread, arrogant and proud, and did not have compassion for the poor.

 

[estesbob]

Whose image was on the coin in scripture you cite? Ceasar’s.

What does each piece of U.S. monetary tender say? In God we trust.

I point that out quite often in my first meeting with potential clients… I tell them “Our currency says in God we trust, everybody else pays a retainer.”

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Matthew 22:

Apparently, Jesus seemed to think that money belonged to Caesar. He called the people who tried to trip him up on the subject, “hypocrites.” Where do you stand?

When he said “what belongs to God,” that seemed to apply to things other than money. If you are going to go “by every word,” you should probably bone up a little bit.

No no no. Jesus used a Roman coin to demonstrate the difference between Caesar and God. The coin that he demonstrated had Caesar’s face and the inscription “Son of God” on it. On the back was a picture of the circus and wheat. The coin represented everything that Jewish Law was against. The worship of man. Giving credit to a man for providing for the people. Render unto Caesar means “Make a choice, give to God what is God’s, and give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.” It was a euphamism. Who does your loyalty belong to, God or the State? Choose and swear your loyalty. The coin was symbolic of the State taking the rightful place of God. That is why the Pharisees were amazed, because he totally schooled them.

 

[estesbob]

How do you know I am a liberal? This is the problem with American politics…can not someone be a disciple of Jesus Christ without being labeled conservative or liberal?

The Ezekiel quotation is an explanation of why the people of Sodom and Gomorah were perverted rapists. They were full of bread, arrogant and proud, and did not have compassion for the poor.

So would they had been considered compassionate to the poor if they empowered their local government to seize money from others to take care of the poor on their behalf?

 

[byeveryword]

We do trust in God…but our money is inscribed with “THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,” which is our equivalent of Caesar. It’s even signed by the Secretary of the Treasury and the Treasurer of the United States. The fact that we trust in God has no bearing on who is printing the money. Nice try though.

Jesus has told us that we can not serve God and mammon. We will either hate the one, or love the other. If you really believe the money you have belongs to US government then I suggest you give it all to the government trusting in God that He will provide.

However, the early church sold all their goods and gave the money to the poor, or to their own community. So if every professing Christian did that, I suppose we would not have to depend on government institutions to take of the poor and disadvantaged. Any takers?

 

[bbarrick8383]

If we lived in an agrarian culture, community support for the poor, the disabled, the elderly and the sick would be the norm for people of Christian faith, but we do not.

Have you ever looked at tax revenue distribution by state? I have no problem if a state want to help those you refer to. I have a problem with the Federal government doing it. The problem is, the left want to define the poor as those who are able bodied and capable of not being poor, yet have no desire to not be poor. I draw a line there between those and the ones who are poor with no means of changing things. We have plenty of people mooching the system here in Oklahoma, and we get more revenue from the Feds than states who are struggling to pat their bills, like NJ.

Let me give you a personal example. I took in a developmentally disabled adult who was not related to me because he had no family willing to do so. I could only emotionally and physically endure it for two years. The man is now in a group home. It costs about $200/day for each person. Do you think the church or anyone else is willing to take care of all these people in group homes, nursing homes, half-way houses and re-hab centers across the U.S.?

That’s awesome that you did what you could do. I think for 14 trillion we could have taken care of them for a long time. But the governments eaten that 14 trillion and what do we have to show for it. We have no historical reason for giving the federal government the power it has, but tons of reasons not to.

As far as the racist issue is concerned, you would not make a point by painting with a broad brush.

A simple apology will suffice.

 

[byeveryword]

So would they had been considered compassionate to the poor if they empowered their local government to seize money from others to take care of the poor on their behalf?

Once again, read the story of Nebuchadnezzar and the prophet Daniel. Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar, ruler of Babylon to give to the poor. He did not and he became a wild animal for seven years, eating grass.

And I have already addressed the problem of so many who are in group homes, nursing homes, half way houses and the like, and I do not see any grass-roots Christian movement to take them over.

 

[estesbob]

Once again, read the story of Nebuchadnezzar and the prophet Daniel. Daniel told Nebuchadnezzar, ruler of Babylon to give to the poor. He did not and he became a wild animal for seven years, eating grass.

So you would agree that we do not fulfill our obligation to show compassion to the poor merely by voting for somebody who promises to do it for us.

And I have already addressed the problem of so many who are in group homes, nursing homes, half way houses and the like, and I do not see any grass-roots Christian movement to take them over.

. You haven’t been looking close enough.The Catholic Church, for instance, is the largest provider of care for AIDS sufferers in the country. the church also runs the largest charity hospital system in the country and at the diocesan and parish level runs a myriad of crisis pregnancy centers, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc. etc. etc… The problem is that increasingly, governments are passing laws forcing the church out of participating in social programs, Illinois dropping of Catholic charities as a provider because they won’t accommodate homosexual couples being the latest example.

 

[byeveryword]

Have you ever looked at tax revenue distribution by state? I have no problem if a state want to help those you refer to. I have a problem with the Federal government doing it. The problem is, the left want to define the poor as those who are able bodied and capable of not being poor, yet have no desire to not be poor. I draw a line there between those and the ones who are poor with no means of changing things. We have plenty of people mooching the system here in Oklahoma, and we get more revenue from the Feds than states who are struggling to pat their bills, like NJ.

That’s awesome that you did what you could do. I think for 14 trillion we could have taken care of them for a long time. But the governments eaten that 14 trillion and what do we have to show for it. We have no historical reason for giving the federal government the power it has, but tons of reasons not to.

Do you realize how much we spend on so called ‘defense’ spending every year? What we have spent on such spending in the last ten years would at least account for half of the 14 trillion. We spend on defense in one year what all the nations of the world spend combined. I thought our faith in God was our defense, not in horses and chariots, or should I say tanks, warships, jet aircraft and bombs.

A simple apology will suffice.

I will apologize when you remove the picture. It is not funny.

 

[rlg94086]

No no no. Jesus used a Roman coin to demonstrate the difference between Caesar and God. The coin that he demonstrated had Caesar’s face and the inscription “Son of God” on it. On the back was a picture of the circus and wheat. The coin represented everything that Jewish Law was against. The worship of man. Giving credit to a man for providing for the people. Render unto Caesar means “Make a choice, give to God what is God’s, and give to Caesar what is Caesar’s.” It was a euphamism. Who does your loyalty belong to, God or the State? Choose and swear your loyalty. The coin was symbolic of the State taking the rightful place of God. That is why the Pharisees were amazed, because he totally schooled them.

You are obviously not a Sola Scriptura, everything-in-the-Bible-is-word-for-word as its written type. You are using deep thinking and listening to the Church. Shame on you.

 

[rlg94086]

Jesus has told us that we can not serve God and mammon. We will either hate the one, or love the other. If you really believe the money you have belongs to US government then I suggest you give it all to the government trusting in God that He will provide.

However, the early church sold all their goods and gave the money to the poor, or to their own community. So if every professing Christian did that, I suppose we would not have to depend on government institutions to take of the poor and disadvantaged. Any takers?

You first.

 

[estesbob]

I will apologize when you remove the picture. It is not funny.

And likewise your blanket condemnation of anybody who does not share your political views as being racist is also not funny. Wrapping up failed liberal social policies in neat little Scripture verses accomplishes nothing.

 

[byeveryword]

So you would agree that we do not fulfill our obligation to show compassion to the poor merely by voting for somebody who promises to do it for us.

. You haven’t been looking close enough.The Catholic Church, for instance, is the largest provider of care for AIDS sufferers in the country. the church also runs the largest charity hospital system in the country and at the diocesan and parish level runs a myriad of crisis pregnancy centers, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, etc. etc. etc… The problem is that increasingly, governments are passing laws forcing the church out of participating in social programs, Illinois dropping of Catholic charities as a provider because they won’t accommodate homosexual couples being the latest example.

As much as Catholic charities does, it is not nearly enough, and they probably get some government subsidies in the process.

 

[estesbob]

You first.

Perhaps he could start with his computer.