Obama says he's Christian 'by choice'

[autdrew]

I’m not sure that what Obama believes as a Christian is “black liberation theology.” A better description of Obama’s Christian faith is provided in the following article:

politicsdaily.com/2010/09/02/glenn-becks-attacks-prompts-white-house-defense-of-obamas-fait/?icid=sphere_politicsdaily_inline2

The black Christian churches in the U.S. have long looked to the Bible to give them hope that God would help them endure oppressive, unjust circumstances and eventually change those circumstances to provide justice and freedom. There’s nothing unchristian or even suspicious about that. If you are a Roman Catholic christian, you belong to a Church that espouses a “preferential option for the poor” and preaches social justice. Glen Beck would question whether you are truly Christian if you attend such a Church. Frankly, I have more trouble with Beck’s brand of Christian faith than with Obama’s.

Glenn Beck is not against social justice or the Catholic Church. He has said he does not think the perversion of social justice by the government is the answer. There are some who think that they are being charitable by taking from you to give to me. That is not charity, that is theft. If you gave to me because you felt moved to do so, charity! Forcing developed countries to undevelop & make their own people poor does not make undeveloped countries develop, it just makes everyone poor.I spent my whole life around people who have been wedded to the idea of government owes me, simply because I exist. Most are always looking for a way to scam more out of “the system”.That isnt social justice or Christian, that is theft from the government this time. It is not about raising people up but a way to keep them down. THAT is what Glenn Beck is against.
Remember the “give a man a fish & he eats for a day, teach him to fish & he eats for a lifetime?”
Our country, with all its faults, has the most charitable people in the world. Religious & conservative people even more so. Forced charity isnt charity.

 

[Alan55]

Glenn Beck is not against social justice or the Catholic Church.

Beck said that he is against social justice (or economic justice), saying that it is a code word for Nazism or socialism. Beck said on his radio show, “I beg you look for the words social justice or economic justice on your church Web site,” he said. “If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. … Am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If they’re going to Jeremiah Wright’s church, yes! If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish,” he said. “Go alert your bishop and tell them, ‘Excuse me, are you down with this whole social justice thing?’ If it’s my church, I’m alerting the church authorities: ‘Excuse me, what’s this social justice thing?’ And if they say, ‘Yeah, we’re all in on this social justice thing,’ I am in the wrong place.”

abcnews.go.com/WN/glenn-beck-social-justice-christians-rage-back-nazism/story?id=10085008

The Catholic Church is the same church that, as a result of the 1971 Synod of Bishops promulgated “Justice in the World” which said in its introduction (par. 5 and 6):

"Listening to the cry of those who suffer violence and are oppressed by unjust systems and structures, and hearing the appeal of a world that by its perversity contradicts the plan of its Creator, we have shared our awareness of the Church’s vocation to be present in the heart of the world by proclaiming the Good News to the poor, freedom to the oppressed, and joy to the afflicted. The hopes and forces which are moving the world in its very foundations are not foreign to the dynamism of the Gospel, which through the power of the Holy Spirit frees people from personal sin and from its consequences in social life.

The uncertainty of history and the painful convergences in the ascending path of the human community direct us to sacred history; there God has revealed himself to us, and made known to us, as it is brought progressively to realization, his plan of liberation and salvation which is once and for all fulfilled in the Paschal Mystery of Christ. Action on behalf of justice and participation in the transformation of the world fully appear to us as a constitutive dimension of the preaching of the Gospel, or, in other words, of the Church’s mission for the redemption of the human race and its liberation from every oppressive situation."

If you can take his own words seriously, you have to say that Beck would not “be down with this whole social justice thing” and would encourage Catholics to leave their Church as a result.

Glen Beck’s version of Christianity is contrary to Catholic Christianity.

 

[exoflare]

That happens to be Trinity United Church of Christ and I, like its white members, have attended services there.

I’m sure THAT puts everyone’s mind at ease.

 

[kelleyclip]

I wish with all of my heart that he applied Judeo-Christian ethics to his policies. I would much rather support our countries leader, but I simply cannot.

 

[Sabda]

What I came away with from reading that article is that Obama didn’t really have a true conversion to Christ. Seriously, think about the conversion stories we have all read and then think about your own. How would you describe yours?

From the article:

It was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to lead," Obama said. “Being my brother’s and sister’s keeper. Treating others as they would treat me.”

He didn’t convert because of Jesus himself, he didn’t convert because God or the Blessed Mother called him. He didn’t convert because he had a real personal, spiritual experience with God. He converted because he liked the teachings. To me he sounds like he’s saying what he needs to in order to get some more votes. Keep in mind this was during a campaign stop.

Another thing, we are not called to be our brother’s keeper. We are called to guide our brother when he goes astray. However, if our brother refuses to listen and persist in his stubbornness, then we are called to walk away and leave him in God’s hands. In other words do what you can to help but don’t allow them to drag you down with them.

Also:

Despite his personal beliefs, Obama said, he believes that the “bedrock strength” of the country is its embrace of many faiths, and also of no faith.

:ehh: Where are country gets it’s strength from is very clearly laid out in the Declaration of Independence. The belief that we our endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, and those rights are to be protected.

Lastly,

Although the country is predominantly Christian

What happened to predominately Muslim? Are we just saying what we think the people want to hear?

Based on everything that he has said and done to date I have a really hard time buying his sincerity on this. Like I have told my dd actions always speak louder than words and his actions have said plenty.

 

[SamH]

He’s been to church.

Let’s not get ‘holier than thou’, here. Who among us looks into the president’s heart?

You mean the one he claims he never listened to anything being said?

 

[SamH]

Another thing, we are not called to be our brother’s keeper. We are called to guide our brother when he goes astray. However, if our brother refuses to listen and persist in his stubbornness, then we are called to walk away and leave him in God’s hands. In other words do what you can to help but don’t allow them to drag you down with them.

=======

. Like I have told my dd actions always speak louder than words and his actions have said plenty.

^^^This^^^

As for Obama being his brother’s keeper, one need only look at how he treats his brother to see how meanful that is to him.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html

 

[latin_rite]

Really? So, I’m a better Catholic because I converted?

Maybe. I was reading somewhere about the Jewish religion. Where one rabbi said. Converts to the Jewish faith are more special… Because. Those who are born Jewish have no choice. Those who convert do so. Knowing all the trouble and racism that comes with it beforehand. And yet still convert.

I wish i could find the quote. But it was so long ago. And it’s not 100% correct. But it is along those lines.

 

[markbrumbaugh]

You mean the one he claims he never listened to anything being said?

Now, thats funny, I don’t care who you are.

 

[markbrumbaugh]

^^^This^^^

As for Obama being his brother’s keeper, one need only look at how he treats his brother to see how meanful that is to him.

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/2590614/Barack-Obamas-lost-brother-found-in-Kenya.html

Well said Sam. You missed your calling.

 

[A_Fortiori_33]

So Obama just outed himself.

This guy basically, boasted that the rest of us are INDOCTRINATED.

Just parse his old interviews, this guy is only as faithful as his crib notes take him.

I’m a cradle catholic, and *you *don’t know what your’e talking about.

It’s an insult to the Holy Spirit to say what you’ve said.

No one has to judge his heart, they just have to judge his actions.

Any faithful Christian can see through this guy.

He is the president of a country with no national religion. Do you want him to kick all the religions represented in this country to the curb?

 

[A_Fortiori_33]

From the interview:
FALSANI: What is sin?**OBAMA: **Being out of alignment with my values.

FALSANI: What happens if you have sin in your life?

OBAMA: I think it’s the same thing as the question about heaven. In the same way that if I’m true to myself and my faith that that is its own reward, when I’m not true to it, it’s its own punishment.

Fascinating. The perfect example of moral relativism. Obama apparently believes that each gets to define their own sin and that the only real punishment comes from deviating from one’s own values. Now, Beau says that Obama has been “professing Christianity for the last 30 years,” but I don’t know any Christian denomination that thinks people get to decide for themselves what is sin.

You get to decide who is a Christian, so why not? How are you any different?

 

[Suudy]

You get to decide who is a Christian, so why not? How are you any different?

I don’t. But the Church does.

And where does the Church teach that one can decide for themselves what is sin? And not just the Catholic Church, but any Christian denomination?

 

[Veridical16]

He is the president of a country with no national religion. Do you want him to kick all the religions represented in this country to the curb?

I didn’t say anything about national religions, or kicking out religions in that post.

 

[Veridical16]

Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
Really? So, I’m a better Catholic because I converted?

Well, that’s a limited example , so the qualifier, “A Covert > than Person Born into a Faith.” is superficial because it’s more nuanced than that. It’s true there is much good that comes from converts…'they bring outside perspective, testing, have the benefit of perspective… God is able to bring about good, from imperfect, flawed situations…whereas those born into the faith may take theirs for granted, become lukewarm, etc…

But there’s a reason why the early Christians and the Catholic Church baptizes their family and babies immediately. Because one gets a head-start to do much good.
It’s a flawed logic, ultimately to settle on the notion that converts automatically are better tested.
It’s kind of like saying Mary is lesser because she was always without sin, than the sinners Jesus won over. We have to fault her for always being obedient? No way.

It’s also like saying St. Monica was better off with both , her husband and her wayward son having the choice to convert to the Faith because they’d be greater Christians for it, rather than if she had already had a husband born-Catholic and her son baptized Catholic.
She had much anguish, grief and if she wasn’t so saintly, the son and the husband would have been lost.

You can’t fault a faithful Christian for being in their faith their whole lives, as if they have lesser status than the one who made the decision to come to the faith in their adult lives.

You can bring up any saints, and see one was a convert later in life, and one was raised Catholic and see they inspire the same holiness.
A faithful Christian is a faithful Christian.

 

[Veridical16]

From the interview:
FALSANI: What is sin?**OBAMA: **Being out of alignment with my values.

FALSANI: What happens if you have sin in your life?

OBAMA: I think it’s the same thing as the question about heaven. In the same way that if I’m true to myself and my faith that that is its own reward, when I’m not true to it, it’s its own punishment.

Fascinating. The perfect example of moral relativism. Obama apparently believes that each gets to define their own sin and that the only real punishment comes from deviating from one’s own values.

Yes, I saw that , with a raised eyebrow.
MY VALUES.

Makes sense with the way he plays politics. His other interview points I can dissect as well, but let’s just leave it at Obama is as good as his word.

 

[rlg94086]

Well, that’s a limited example , so the qualifier, “A Covert > than Person Born into a Faith.” is superficial because it’s more nuanced than that. It’s true there is much good that comes from converts…'they bring outside perspective, testing, have the benefit of perspective… God is able to bring about good, from imperfect, flawed situations…whereas those born into the faith may take theirs for granted, become lukewarm, etc…

But there’s a reason why the early Christians and the Catholic Church baptizes their family and babies immediately. Because one gets a head-start to do much good.
It’s a flawed logic, ultimately to settle on the notion that converts automatically are better tested.
It’s kind of like saying Mary is lesser because she was always without sin, than the sinners Jesus won over. We have to fault her for always being obedient? No way.

It’s also like saying St. Monica was better off with both , her husband and her wayward son having the choice to convert to the Faith because they’d be greater Christians for it, rather than if she had already had a husband born-Catholic and her son baptized Catholic.
She had much anguish, grief and if she wasn’t so saintly, the son and the husband would have been lost.

You can’t fault a faithful Christian for being in their faith their whole lives, as if they have lesser status than the one who made the decision to come to the faith in their adult lives.

You can bring up any saints, and see one was a convert later in life, and one was raised Catholic and see they inspire the same holiness.
A faithful Christian is a faithful Christian.

 

[kelleyclip]

Maybe. I was reading somewhere about the Jewish religion. Where one rabbi said. Converts to the Jewish faith are more special… Because. Those who are born Jewish have no choice. Those who convert do so. Knowing all the trouble and racism that comes with it beforehand. And yet still convert.

I wish i could find the quote. But it was so long ago. And it’s not 100% correct. But it is along those lines.

I agree. We are all equal, but it means more when someone lives a life away from God and then finds him. If you’ve always known God, then you’ve never had to come “lips to the curb”.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

I agree. We are all equal, but it means more when someone lives a life away from God and then finds him.

As I noted, that is what the Bible says.

 

[Veridical16]

I agree. We are all equal, but it means more when someone lives a life away from God and then finds him. If you’ve always known God, then you’ve never had to come “lips to the curb”.

Beau Ouiville:

As I noted, that is what the Bible says.

While it is true, that there is greater JOY for the repentant sinner over the 99 faithful, there is a difference between what is stated above, and a fine line between the point Jesus illustrates with the parables of the Lost and those who’ve always known God.

( Besides, the main problem, originated with the impression that because Obama 'claims to have chosen his faith later in life.
Furthermore to apply, the story of the prodigal son, or the lost sheep to Obama, when a lot of that has to do with repentance, and I don’t even see shame or reptentance with Obama (he continues to vote, promote anti-Christian agendas/means, is really astounding to me…it’s bizarro and twisted…I shudder to think, the truth can be blanketed with desirable distortions in order to favor shallow revelations of this man. But that’s neither here nor there)

Anyway, both these comments something is still off about it, we have to be careful with the words we use “it MEANS more with their life away from God then finds him” implies, it means less when someone remains faithful all their lives.
I just don’t think it holds water, especially considering our Blessed Mother.
Yes, there is greater JOY for the lost sheep we can all see it, the sinner who was saved after having been loss, the FAITH of all whoever mean the same to God who can love each and everyone infinitely. It’s a great thing. (St. Paul comes to mind)

It’s a little too glib, and superficial when we start thinking of it, in terms “it means more.” Because that would imply, “it’s better to be SINFUL first, then FIND GOD” that can not be! It might even encourage those who are faithful to waiver, or feel justified that they participated in sinful lifestyles.

I think, that’s false, because I think unnecessary sufferings and damage to the soul happens from the past, and Saints who have had those pasts and converted, become aware of what set themselves back. They understand their grace. “There but for the grace of God go I” etc.

If you’ve always known God, then you’ve never had to come “lips to the curb”.

It’s this kind of rationale, that leads one to perceive things a little askew (more and more) in regard to how we look at sin and faithfulness/obedience, because it forgets our Blessed Mother who always knew God, and always had Grace.
I just don’t think we should think of the JOY we get from converts, translates into praise at the *expense *of cradle Catholics. When you think about our Mother Mary, you just go “okay, I don’t think it’s exactly how we should take the parable of the Lost…”

It reminds me in relation to some comments I’ve seen even on this forum by skeptics, that Jesus’ selfless acts mean less because he had the “benefit” of being both God and Man. Whereas a man who COULD SIN without divine life, would mean MORE doing what God did for us.