On Demonic Posession

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I was looking into demonic possessions (I’ll admit, the movie “The Exorcist” got me interested), and I had some questions. First I need to clarify something on Satan and demons: Do they have free will, or can they only do what God allows them to do? I’ve heard that demons can only possess people with God’s approval. If so:

Why does God allow a person to be possessed? Doesn’t it take away the person’s free will if the demon has control of their body?

Why do exorcisms fail sometimes? One would think that with the power of holy water and a priest, a demon would immediately leave the person’s body. But yet I hear of exorcisms lasting months or years,

What usually attracts a demon to possess a person? Can “subtle possessions” occur where a person is possessed just for a short amount of time to make them commit and act they don’t want to?

Thanks.
 
This seems like a question an apologist should answer.

Now I am no expert, but I do think that possession could occur gradually, and that we are all subject to it through sin. When we sin we are choosing to oppose God so in that sense we may be "mildly possessed.? I could be very wrong, but it has been something I have contemplated.

Actual full possession scares the skin off me. If I feel any threat of evil I pray immediately for God’s protection. I think we should all pray for that constantly and maybe we fail to do so because people somehow think possession is an ancient problem. I think it is very real and terrifying so I pray about it. Maybe if we were all more afraid of that possibility it would be harder for all of us to sin.
 
I was looking into demonic possessions (I’ll admit, the movie “The Exorcist” got me interested), and I had some questions. First I need to clarify something on Satan and demons: Do they have free will, or can they only do what God allows them to do? I’ve heard that demons can only possess people with God’s approval. If so:
They made an irrevocable choice when they rebelled against God. They have no free will. God would never approve of evil - He allows them to commit evil only because He can bring good out of it.
Why does God allow a person to be possessed? Doesn’t it take away the person’s free will if the demon has control of their body?
Again, it is so that those who love the possessed person will seek help for that person. As to free will, once the demon possesses you, they are on control. Yet, God so loves free will that He gave His Church power over demons, to end the suffering and restore the free will of the possessed.
Why do exorcisms fail sometimes? One would think that with the power of holy water and a priest, a demon would immediately leave the person’s body. But yet I hear of exorcisms lasting months or years,
Some demons are cast out only through prayer and fasting. This takes time. Sometimes, a lot of time. We simply don’t know the exact reasoning.
What usually attracts a demon to possess a person? Can “subtle possessions” occur where a person is possessed just for a short amount of time to make them commit and act they don’t want to?
Most possessed persons have participated in occult activities, or a pattern of sin which opens the door to possession. The devil cannot “make you do something.” That would be a great defense for prisoners, huh? Demons possess a person until they are cast out. Some interesting reading:

Interview with an exorcist Priest: regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782

Tales of demonic activity: holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/tomhoopes/darkbackward.asp

Parish Priest performs exorcism in Indiana (soon to be a movie, actually): ncregister.com/daily-news/parish-priest-aids-family-in-fight-against-demons/
 
They made an irrevocable choice when they rebelled against God. They have no free will. God would never approve of evil - He allows them to commit evil only because He can bring good out of it.
They have free-will, but the choice of angels is irrevocable, as will our be in the moment we die.

As for why demons are allowed to posses a person. We know that a mortal sin throws you in the arms of Satan. Once you evict God from your soul, then you are a slave to sin and to the Devil and only through repentance will you gain back the state of sanctifying grace.
To my opinion, a grave sin, like occultism, sexual perversions, abortion, opens the gate to possession. Playing with him, if only as a joke, or a game is very dangerous for one’s soul. Like the Ouija table, astrology, many don’t consider them harmful and even if they don’t necessarily believe in them, it is still not wise to approach such practices.

As a side note: If you recall from the film “The Rite”, the devil actually says how he came to be in her, the possessed girl, through the seed of her father, implying that she was raped by her father when she was little. It’s only a movie, but I think it got it right here.
 
I’m not sure what exact limits God put on the fallen angels and I dare say that nobody on this site does know for sure either. I will say this, the earlier poster who pointed out that people who play around with the occult seem to be more likely to find themselves feeling possessed than a normal person who just goes about their day-to-day business. I do believe that a person can sell his or her soul to Satan for earthly gain. Once many years ago, my husband, myself and another couple played that little game where you attempt to make a table levitate and “talk” by tapping out answers with one leg of it. It scared me so badly—even though most likely it was one of the members of our group tricking us—that I stay away from all of that sort of thing, and have ever since that one time!
 
I’m very short for time so I’ll add more later but you need to know that GOD IS IN CHARGE of Everything, that is why it is said a person can only be possessed by God’s permissive will.

I recommend you get a copy of “An Exorcist Tells His Story” by Gabriele Amorth. It is very informative. And CORRECT information is ESSENTIAL in the spiritual battle against Satan and his minions.

Glenda
 
I’m not sure what exact limits God put on the fallen angels and I dare say that nobody on this site does know for sure either. I will say this, the earlier poster who pointed out that people who play around with the occult seem to be more likely to find themselves feeling possessed than a normal person who just goes about their day-to-day business. I do believe that a person can sell his or her soul to Satan for earthly gain. Once many years ago, my husband, myself and another couple played that little game where you attempt to make a table levitate and “talk” by tapping out answers with one leg of it. It scared me so badly—even though most likely it was one of the members of our group tricking us—that I stay away from all of that sort of thing, and have ever since that one time!
There is a legend, story, whatever you want to call it, that Elisabeth the II sold her soul to the devil for 40 years on the throne. She reigned for 44 years. But I dare to say that what she did to the Catholic Church in England was diabolical.

What we know, in relation to possessions, is that it happens, that’s certain, and only by the power of Christ through a priest may it be cast out. Why or how it happens, I don’t know of any Church teaching on these subjects.
 
I was looking into demonic possessions (I’ll admit, the movie “The Exorcist” got me interested), and I had some questions. First I need to clarify something on Satan and demons: Do they have free will, or can they only do what God allows them to do? I’ve heard that demons can only possess people with God’s approval. If so:
Demons HAD free will until they chose to reject G_D. They still have free will, but it’s limited: they cannot choose to repent from their rejection of G_D, because the punishment they are suffering is so awful any repentance would be based on removal of pain rather than sorrow for hurting G_D. As in all evil in this world, the most we know is that G_D allows evil to occur only when there is a great chance of a greater good coming from it. That is why at the end of time there is the “general judgement”, when all of creation will be assembled and all can see how all of the events in our lives – both the painful as well as the pleasurable – have helped G_D bring about His ultimate victory.
Why does God allow a person to be possessed? Doesn’t it take away the person’s free will if the demon has control of their body?
Again, we don’t know why G_D allows that particular evil to occur in someone’s life, only that some action they took opened a door to permit the possession to occur. Yes, the possession takes away a person’s will. That’s why a person is not held accountable for any sinful actions that occurred during an episode of possession. The external signs we associate with possession (physical changes, etc.) are the result of the possessed person’s struggle with the demon for control of his or her body.
Why do exorcisms fail sometimes? One would think that with the power of holy water and a priest, a demon would immediately leave the person’s body. But yet I hear of exorcisms lasting months or years,
The exorcism is a battle of wills: the wills of both the exorcist and the victim uniting with the will of the Holy Spirit against the will of the demon. If there is a spiritual defect in either the exorcist or the victim, it will take more time for the Holy Spirit to remold or remake their spiritual lives, which may be the purpose for G_D allowing the possession in the first place.
What usually attracts a demon to possess a person? Can “subtle possessions” occur where a person is possessed just for a short amount of time to make them commit and act they don’t want to?
The attraction is that of any seducer: recognizing a weakness that the demon can use to draw a victim in. It’s usually in three stages. The first is a form of spiritual seduction: think of a “lucky totem” that someone ALWAYS has to have on their person. The second form is obsession, where the victim recognizes there is a separate entity involved and tries, on their own power, to control or expel the entity, and the third form is what we normally think of as possession.

(There’s also a fourth form, “infestation”, where a demonic entity becomes attached to a physical object. Think of haunted houses or pianos that play themselves in the middle of the night.)

The first two forms can be taken care of through a deliverance ministry, using frequent prayer, frequent confession, and frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist. The third form requires a priest with permission of his bishop to perform the Rite of Exorcism.
 
They have free-will, but the choice of angels is irrevocable, as will our be in the moment we die.
They were created with free will, but no longer possess it, having made their choice whom they would serve. They are incapable of repentance as they cannot re-orient their wills to that of God.
 
They were created with free will, but no longer possess it, having made their choice whom they would serve. They are incapable of repentance as they cannot re-orient their wills to that of God.
They still have free will. Let me ask you, if they don’t have free will, who coerces them to attack and tempt men? They are incapable of repentance because of their nature. Their free will has never been taken from them, just that it’s perverted and turned to evil and against God and us. Since he can do nothing to God, he occupies himself with humans. 😦
 
They still have free will. Let me ask you, if they don’t have free will, who coerces them to attack and tempt men? They are incapable of repentance because of their nature. Their free will has never been taken from them, just that it’s perverted and turned to evil and against God and us. Since he can do nothing to God, he occupies himself with humans. 😦
On the free will of angels check Summa Q.59,3. :cool:
Don’t know where you are getting this, but it is not from the deposit of faith as contained in the catechism. Please check sections 391-395 and 414.
 
Don’t know where you are getting this, but it is not from the deposit of faith as contained in the catechism. Please check sections 391-395 and 414.
I read all of those from the Catechism. It only states the irrevocability of their choices, doesn’t state anything of them having or not having free will. You really should read Aquinas on the matter, you’ll find him most illuminating.
Here are a few things:
“For liberty of will belongs to the nature of an intellectual being, which nature remains in the demons… The good and wicked angels have free-will, but according to the manner and condition of their state.” Q 64,2
😃

Read the entire article if you want. Here it is:
sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/sum072.htm
 
I’ve heard many possible reasons for Satan and the devils’ ultimately permanent fall from grace. Several theories out there include that when Satan was informed of man’s place in God’s big plan and that the Second Person of the Trinity would become human to save us humans and that Mary would be honored as the Queen of Heaven, it was more than his pride could handle and he refused to be part of it. Satan was, after all, supposedly one of God’s most beautiful and most intelligent angels–at one time. Perhaps that is where all his pride originated and perhaps he saw human beings as only one step above monkeys and felt offended by God’s great love and concern for human beings as a species.

A second theory I heard is based on that one little line in Genesis that says some angels came to earth, took human bodies, and found human women to be “comely” so they took them for wives and sexual partners which resulted in a race of what the bible refers to as “giants and heroes of old”. Obviously, this was against God’s plan, infact, God had supposedly warned Satan not to become involved with human women sexually and when Satan did so anyway, God punished him accordingly…

The bottom line is that there are many, many theories on what happened in heaven that resulted in some of the angels turning away from God. To my human mind, I can’t quite understand any creature that lived with God, saw His power and could behold His face every day, doing something as singularly stupid as taking God on. One would think they’d realize that it was a no-win situation for them—that just as God had created them, He could also squash them like bugs!. Obviously that isn’t how the fallen angels looked at it. Thus, we have Satan and his minions roaming the earth, seeking the ruin of souls as misery loves company. Hopefully, I’ll make it to heaven one day, and I imagine that then–and only then–is when I will find out for sure what exactly went so horribly wrong. In the interim, smart people (in my humble opinion) don’t get involved with the occult. It’s hard enough avoiding sin in life without opening a door and inviting Satan in.🤷
 
I’ve heard many possible reasons for Satan and the devils’ ultimately permanent fall from grace. Several theories out there include that when Satan was informed of man’s place in God’s big plan and that the Second Person of the Trinity would become human to save us humans and that Mary would be honored as the Queen of Heaven, it was more than his pride could handle and he refused to be part of it. Satan was, after all, supposedly one of God’s most beautiful and most intelligent angels–at one time. Perhaps that is where all his pride originated and perhaps he saw human beings as only one step above monkeys and felt offended by God’s great love and concern for human beings as a species.
I don’t know the situation of other men where they came from, but I’m created by God.
A second theory I heard is based on that one little line in Genesis that says some angels came to earth, took human bodies, and found human women to be “comely” so they took them for wives and sexual partners which resulted in a race of what the bible refers to as “giants and heroes of old”. Obviously, this was against God’s plan, infact, God had supposedly warned Satan not to become involved with human women sexually and when Satan did so anyway, God punished him accordingly…
I’m curious, which little line from Genesis?
The bottom line is that there are many, many theories on what happened in heaven that resulted in some of the angels turning away from God. To my human mind, I can’t quite understand any creature that lived with God, saw His power and could behold His face every day, doing something as singularly stupid as taking God on. One would think they’d realize that it was a no-win situation for them—that just as God had created them, He could also squash them like bugs!. Obviously that isn’t how the fallen angels looked at it. Thus, we have Satan and his minions roaming the earth, seeking the ruin of souls as misery loves company. Hopefully, I’ll make it to heaven one day, and I imagine that then–and only then–is when I will find out for sure what exactly went so horribly wrong. In the interim, smart people (in my humble opinion) don’t get involved with the occult. It’s hard enough avoiding sin in life without opening a door and inviting Satan in.🤷
Actually it didn’t happen in Heaven, where God is. Angels didn’t behold the face of God at the beginning, they were situated in a place called the angelic plane, which is a spiritual dimension. They were tested first, some went into Heaven, to have the beatific vision, others chose Hell. And sin is from Satan. Without him there would be no temptation, no sin.
 
I don’t know the situation of other men where they came from, but I’m created by God.

I’m curious, which little line from Genesis?

Actually it didn’t happen in Heaven, where God is. Angels didn’t behold the face of God at the beginning, they were situated in a place called the angelic plane, which is a spiritual dimension. They were tested first, some went into Heaven, to have the beatific vision, others chose Hell. And sin is from Satan. Without him there would be no temptation, no sin.
Answers: I believe all of creation is made by God, don’t you?
Chapter 6 vs 1-4 will answer your question about the angels and human women. As to where the actual falling out between God and Satan occurred, you present an interesting possibility but I don’t know where you got that idea. I admit I’ve never read it before or heard of it–so maybe you are right and maybe not. Again, I’ve never heard of it before in my entire life. I also will agree that sin is caused by Satan tempting us. Without Satan we’d all still be in that Garden of Eden!
 
Answers: (1) I believe all of creation is made by God, don’t you?
(2) Chapter 6 vs 1-4 will answer your question about the angels and human women. As to where the actual falling out between God and Satan occurred, you present an interesting possibility but (3) I don’t know where you got that idea. I admit I’ve never read it before or heard of it–so maybe you are right and maybe not. Again, I’ve never heard of it before in my entire life. I also will agree that sin is caused by Satan tempting us. Without Satan (4) we’d all still be in that Garden of Eden!
  1. You mentioned the humans as being on step above monkeys. This theory of evolution, is largely unaccepted by the scientific community. Our faith states clear that we came from a set of parents: a man and a woman.
  2. There are no angels there. I just read it. It’s about giants. And the falling of angels is before creation of the material world. At least, before the fall of humans, which happens in chapter 3, which is before chapter 6. 😉
  3. I got the idea from the Church. Reason, too, says that it’s plausible, given the circumstances and the proof presented. We don’t know exactly how it happen, we can only speculate on it.
  4. Well the happiness of our proto-parents was only natural. We expect the supernatural happiness of being with God. In a sense we still are in the Garden of Eden. Just that is all gone bad.
I took the liberty of numbering the points I wanted to answer, hope you don’t mind. 😛
 
  1. You mentioned the humans as being on step above monkeys. This theory of evolution, is largely unaccepted by the scientific community. Our faith states clear that we came from a set of parents: a man and a woman.
  2. There are no angels there. I just read it. It’s about giants. And the falling of angels is before creation of the material world. At least, before the fall of humans, which happens in chapter 3, which is before chapter 6. 😉
  3. I got the idea from the Church. Reason, too, says that it’s plausible, given the circumstances and the proof presented. We don’t know exactly how it happen, we can only speculate on it.
  4. Well the happiness of our proto-parents was only natural. We expect the supernatural happiness of being with God. In a sense we still are in the Garden of Eden. Just that is all gone bad.
I took the liberty of numbering the points I wanted to answer, hope you don’t mind. 😛
As I said, one THEORY I’ve heard as to what actually caused the fall of Satan was his pride which made him feel that God was putting far too much love and emotion into human beings which to Satan were far lower on the food chain than the angels were. That is what I meant by the monkey remark. Let me add that this is just ONE of the possible stories I’ve read or heard and I don’t believe it or not believe it. I take it with a grain of salt as a possibility as no human knows for sure.

If you read the whole piece in chapter 6 vs 1 to 4 you will see that these so called giants and heroes were supposedly the result of angels having intercourse with human women–a no-no per God. Re-read it.I don’t subscribe to that belief either as we simply don’t know and I assume if God wanted us to know, he’d tell us–but at least it has a biblical basis.

I’d love to hear where in the church literature you got your ideas about the place where the fight between the angels and Satan occurred. I’ve never heard of it before. Anywhere!

In no sense are we still in the Garden of Eden. We may be happy with our living arrangements on earth, but if you remember, God drove Adam and Eve OUT of the garden when they sinned and even put an angel at the entrance as a big “NO ENTRY” sign just in case they didn’t get the point!
 
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