On the Tiber’s Shore II

[OddBird]

The reason the people fail to follow Jesus is they have a lack of faith. They don’t think He’s going to come through for them. They anticipate loss and lack if they trust Him.

I am not sure I am getting what you are saying when you link lack of faith and anticipating loss and lack.

Yes, Jesus is trustworthy, but it doesn’t mean that anticipating loss and lack is wrong. It is simply being realistic – and maybe, if we look at Christ’s life on this earth, it could even be seen as living as He lived.

For some of us, making the choice of the Church is indeed costly, in a very down-to-earth, monetary way, and the loss and the lack could become very real.

The day I enter full communion, I will, among others, lose my job, go into debt, and possibly become homeless, because divorce is very much a possibility if I do this.

All this in order to leave a Protestant church in which I am honest enough to recognize that the Holy Spirit is at work, too, in spite of all its faults and its incompleteness.

I hope I’m not coming across as bitter, because I’m not. But accepting that there will be a price (that, as I would say in French, I cannot have all at once the butter, the butter’s money, and the dairymaid’s smile) has been a recurring issue for me in spiritual direction ; and it’s not just about accepting that the hard things will not go away, it’s about accepting that they will possibly get much worse. Accepting loss and lack, for Christ’s sake. Accepting, in my case, that I could very well be choosing lifelong loneliness and material poverty. Things I don’t have it in me to face with courage and love, but, just barely, with clenched teeth and despair, as my own way to the Cross.

Maybe I’m just particularly tired and grumpy tonight, and getting too easily rubbed the wrong way. Please accept my apologies if I said something offensive, or if I misread you.

 

[OddBird]

I will be praying for you both, @TNMan.

 

[Donald_S]

The day I enter full communion, I will, among others, lose my job, go into debt, and possibly become homeless, because divorce is very much a possibility if I do this.

I truly believe God will see you through and reward you for this level of sacrifice. I honestly cannot say I would have such determination if my wife threatened to divorce me. Thanks be to God that I was spared from this as my faith may not have been strong enough. You are truly strong in faith to endure this hardship. I pray that God works in your husband and provides you with an even more rewarding occupation.

 

[adf417]

Amen and AMEN!!!

 

[rlmcc83]

Saying it is one thing. It actually happening is another. I truly do not believe that I will get to become fully Catholic. Some of us have to be realistic. My husband will never get an annulment. I am not eloquent enough to convince him that doing so is not just a benefit to me, but to him and our daughter as well. I need to accept this.
At this point, I’m just tired. It’s been two years of crying and begging and feeling empty and waiting and hoping and praying. I know others have waited longer, but I won’t wait forever. It’s time to move on and find what I’m looking for in the Protestant Church. As many faults as my husband has, I am married to him, and I owe it to him and our daughter to stop being selfish and make things work.

 

[Donald_S]

Saying it is one thing. It actually happening is another. I truly do not believe that I will get to become fully Catholic. Some of us have to be realistic.

I am sorry for your situation. My comment was not meant to be patronizing but based on your reply it appears it came across that way. My apologies. It was meant to be a word of encouragement and appreciation of OddBird’s faith during adversity.

 

[rlmcc83]

I get it. No need to apologize.

 

[Saturninia]

leave a Protestant church in which I am honest enough to recognize that the Holy Spirit is at work

You nailed this point. It’s still very hard to wrap my brain around how this is the reality of the Holy Spirit…
I spoke with my priest about many aspects of my marriage possibly breaking under the stress of my Catholicism. He agreed there were real risks. While he didn’t tell me what to do, he kindly reminded me that I had already been trusting God for many years. Why would God leave me now?

What actually happened was I changed a lot, for the better (the wonders of confession and Eucharist), which has improved my marriage. I’m 100% more humble. I’m very happy. We fight much less. My husband’s still a Protestant. I’d say I prefer my marriage more now. So that’s how I’d describe God’s provision in my troubled marriage.

Do you watch/ listen to The Journey Home with Marcus Grodi? Lots of stories of clergy becoming Catholic. Seems like a hard, long road. I thought they offered help to clergy in your situation. I think it’s the Coming Home Network?

 

[gohjedrek]

For some people, myself included, joining the Catholic Church is costly. Lots of relational complications. Very inconvenient. It would be far easier to just pick a favorite flavor of Protestantism.
Want to encourage you with this:

Matthew 13:44
“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it.”

The reason the people fail to follow Jesus is they have a lack of faith. They don’t think He’s going to come through for them. They anticipate loss and lack if they trust Him.

Friends, He’s trustworthy. The hard things in your life may not go away. But you will be transformed by Him so that you face your hard things with courage and love.

Yeah, it depends a lot on the community, made many friends in the Protestant churches I been to over the years. For myself, it came down really to personal and community faith. In Protestantism, it was all about the community. I felt at many times, that I went to church for the community and not for the sake of being transformed to follow Jesus. In Catholicism, there was greater emphasis on the personal faith, people go to church independently on weekdays in the middle of their work.

I think for myself the turning point was when I realised that the anglo-catholic church opened each day for eucharistic service, was empty compared to the catholic church. This set me on the journey towards catholicism but for myself, the big issue is being able to commit to the RCIA at a fixed church. It is long and I am usually moving from place to place, I do see myself being able to commit to the RCIA only at the end of next year.

 

[Donald_S]

Edit: Removing quote as it is being withdrawn

Forgiveness toward others through Christ is one of our greatest weapon against hatred. But forgiveness does not mean that you should necessarily continue in the situation. I truly love my wife. She is my best friend. She was and is my first marriage. If I had a previous marriage, even before considering Catholicism, and she asked me to get it annulled, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I won’t tell you what you should do in regard to your marriage beyond recommending counseling and seeking guidance from a priest.

 

[tafan2]

Also, if I start attend Mass regularly, I am bound to eventually run into issues with my very Protestant in-laws regarding things such as what religion my daughter will be raised in. How should I handle this?

Inform them that they are your children?

 

[gohjedrek]

The day I enter full communion, I will, among others, lose my job, go into debt, and possibly become homeless, because divorce is very much a possibility if I do this.

All this in order to leave a Protestant church in which I am honest enough to recognize that the Holy Spirit is at work, too, in spite of all its faults and its incompleteness.

(Matthew 6.19-21) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

Keep in prayer that you will be able to have smooth transition out of the protestant church and into the catholic church. If it brings you loneliness and poverty, know that it is temporal. Even then, there isn’t a hurry to transition out as well. In my church, a number of ex-anglicans converted after retirement. They were received into the catholic church via the ordinariate, while the numbers are few (25), but I always see joy in their faces. When I looked at their lives, they look far more fulfilled than the people I meet in the anglican cathedral where I was baptised. It’s hard to describe, sometimes God wants you to take the big leap and sometimes God wants you to be patient. You would have to pray for spiritual direction and this is where discernment comes in.

 

[OddBird]

Thank you

Even then, there isn’t a hurry to transition out as well.

I talked about it on the old Tiber’s shore thread, but my specific issue is that I haven’t been consecrated. My church is now pressuring me into either accepting consecration or leaving. But right now, I cannot, in good conscience, go ahead with consecration.

ETA :

You would have to pray for spiritual direction and this is where discernment comes in.

Thankfully, spiritual direction is the one aspect where I have nothing to wish for. I’m accompanied by a priest friend who has been incredibly patient, supportive and wise throughout.

 

[OddBird]

What actually happened was I changed a lot, for the better (the wonders of confession and Eucharist), which has improved my marriage.

I wish I could say the same. What is happening is that my choice is revealing all of my husband’s interior wounds and fragilities, and it is really difficult to deal with. At the same time, I’m convinced that such a time would have been inevitable sooner or later in our marriage, and that there is a fundamental dysfunction in our relationship that needs fixing.

Do you watch/ listen to The Journey Home with Marcus Grodi? Lots of stories of clergy becoming Catholic. Seems like a hard, long road. I thought they offered help to clergy in your situation. I think it’s the Coming Home Network?

Yes, I do ! They are great for moral support. The financial aspect is not yet sorted out.

 

[whatistrue]

Our parish held the Rite of Sending last evening. My wife and my Sponsor were both in attendance, While my Sponsor and I were up around the Sanctuary with the other Candidates, the team asked my wife to stand in for a Sponsor who was not present, which she was pleased to do. Rite of Acceptance/Rite of Welcoming with the Bishop (but at a nearby parish rather than the Cathedral) is this coming Sunday afternoon.

While my process appears to be going smoothly, I read with sadness of the troubles of @OddBird, @TNMan, and @rlmcc83. For you and for any others that are having difficulties on your path, please accept my fervent hopes and prayers that each of your journeys complete peacefully and as they are meant to.

 

[OddBird]

Thank you, @whatistrue! And I’m so happy for you !

 

[Minks]

True, you aren’t going to find a Catholic minister’s job, but, in time, you may find a related position within the Church network. In the meantime, surely your educational and work exposure equips you for some type of employment in social services, fund-raising, editing, organizing, etc.

Inventory your college courses, work and volunteer experiences, and personal preferences, then create a marketable you. In many US states, depending upon your college courses, an emergency (equivalent to instant, rather than an actual emergency situation) teaching license could give you almost daily work as a substitute teacher, or even as a full-time teacher.

Rather than risk having no income, ask Fr if he knows any parish members who are pivotal in hiring for their companies, either actual personnel decision-makers, or upper echelon management types with whom you might interview, so they’d think of you when an opening arises, even if they don’t currently have an opening.

You have many talents, Oddbird. Keep the upper hand over panic, indecision, depression, and despair. Plan contingencies to ensure that you’ll not falter, but surge forward. With Jesus, all things are possible!

 

[OddBird]

Thank you, @Minks !

Yes, I have job possibilities on the other side. I know I won’t be jobless. But the salary is not the same, and even if that’s not what motivates me, I know too that I will have to make ends meet on a tiny income if my husband leaves.

I’ll see. But I simply prefer to be prepared, because it’s in the realm of possibilities

ETA: just to clarify, because what was clear in my own head wasn’t clear at all here: when I say job opportunities, I mean within the Church. There are some, they’re right up my alley, and clergy have already told me “we want you there”.

 

[Saturninia]

What is happening is that my choice is revealing all of my husband’s interior wounds and fragilities, and it is really difficult to deal with

Right here is where the Holy Spirit may be doing a great work. It looks like a disaster. And that’s where God’s power moves most powerfully. How many times we face tragedy and failure only to actually find Him closest.
Your cross to carry here is to be Jesus to your broken husband; you draw closer to Him, He moves through you and touches your husband. Your husband may flip out and leave. But you aren’t the Savior, you can’t carry his faith for him.

It’s the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.
I go to daily Mass because I find the kindness of God there; it’s become air I have to breathe. It’s the only way I’ve found the strength to deal with family trauma. I just want to be near Him.
It may seem I’m boasting about my works; actually it’s 100% God giving Himself to me.

I’m sure all of the Protestants in my life think I’ve gone crazy. I have so thoroughly believed transubstantiation that I actually believe I can go be with Jesus every day. If it’s not true I really do belong in a mental hospital.

 

[rlmcc83]

We have tried counseling, but quit because he didn’t like it. Suggesting we visit a priest wouldn’t go over well, so I won’t try it. Self preservation is in my best interest right now.
I do find it interesting how no one (not just on this board, but others as well) has said that I absolutely need to stay married and make things work. No one has told me to get a divorce, but I don’t get any encouragement to stay married, either.Especially considering how pro-marriage the Catholic Church is, I find this interesting.