Because, as human beings - we are subject to temptation and sin.
Depends on what you mean by “willful”.
But you can still jump out.
ALL sin is willful disobedience. Are you saying that as Christians, we can only sin accidentally?
Really? At what point are we made perfect in Christ?
Iggy, I don’t think this is a fair request to make of a Protestant.
I find this statement very insulting. Catholic salvation is not a “lottery”.
The truth is ambiguous only** to those who do not understand it. It is ambiguous to those who make their own rules by rejecting Christ’s Church.
No - that’s somthing YOU and many other Protestants do. You glean a verse here and there, then build entire doctrines around them - discarding all of the other verses that seem to contradict them. This is the tragedy -* and* the folly of Protestantism.
**It’s open? No - it’s pretty clear, unless you make your own rules . . . like you do . . .We do know that Christ is our Judge; so, there is to be a judgement.
How He comes to judge is open, except to those of closed mind.
No he doesn’t. Most anti-Catholics don’t believe that we are Christians - even though we were the very FIRST Christians and the very FIRST Church from which they divorced themselves . . .**
They believed in him at some point or else they would not have been his disciples. Salvation does not remove free will.
I am not making any claims about who is or isn’t Christian.
They never believed in Him. Before those so-called disciples left, Jesus told them they did not believe in Him, and John inserted a note saying that Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that would not believe.
(1) We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Why did Peter run away, and then deny Jesus three times? Why was John the only one of the twelve Apostles that stayed with Jesus through the agony of the cross? Because humanity is weakened by sin. We stumble and fall. We hurt each other. We choose sin instead of Jesus because of fear, envy, jealosy, anger, lust, etc. These sins sever a person’s right relationship with God, just as they can sever our relationships with others. The bible clearly warns about this. What are the wages of sin? I fail to see why it is OSAS believers are so blind to this biblical truth? If we do not hold fast to that living faith, but instead lose confidence and choose to separate ourselves from God in this life we are placing ourselves in jeopardy even though Christ remains faithful. If we sin and “shrink back” God will not force us to be with him for eternity.
“Those who shrink back” are members of the Body that spurned the Blood of Christ in which they had been sanctified. (See Heb 10:29, supra) This seems very clear that one can move from being “saved” to being in jeopardy of damnation. How can you miss this?
Do, you really believe that everyone who, at one time in their life, made a “sincere” call upon the Lord will be saved regardless of how they live their life thereafter? I really don’t see how that is supportable given the many texts that have already been cited to you here. In addition, you seem to be saying that by this one work done apart from God - i.e. the sincere calling upon - Christ owes us salvation regardless of how we may thereafter act.
My apologies
So you believe we never commit sin again once we accept Jesus. Fine, thats a clear concise statement of your beliefs. We are made perfect correct? Those who are perfect cant commit sin since sin is not perfect and those who are perfect cant sin.
How exactly do you HOPE for something that is assured? The great gift given to christians is HOPE doesnt appear as though you have much if any at all. It seems prideful dont you think to be sure you know what God will provide
They never believed him? You can read hearts now, can you?
Amen. The Lord can help keep you from stumbling. This does not say all who make a sincere call to the Lord are guaranteed salvation. Just a few verses before this, the author is exhorting his beloved brothers and sisters in Christ to “build themselves up” and “keep” themselves “in the love of God.”:
Why would such exhortations be necessary for those who have already assured their salvation as you contend? We all agree the Lord has the power to keep us from sin. But unlike you, Catholics and many other christian communities are honest about acknowledging our ability to refuse the Lord’s mercy, and instead … fall into doubt, fear, and sin.
Amen. Christ is the author and perfector of faith. But this does not speak to how that faith is perfected within each of us. You say it is a one-time act. Catholics say it only begins there, and Christ completes His perfecting within us, and through us. 1 Cor. 13:12-13. “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”
Amen! No good Catholic Christian doubts Christ’s ability to save those who draw near to him. Similarly, no good Catholic Christiany doubts Christ’s ability to intercede on their behalf with the Father. Where we differ in understanding is in how you think these are applied individually. You believe all that is required is a one-time sincere call to the Lord. We believe that is just the beginning… that God’s movement into our life demands a response by which Christ uses our good works to complete His work of salvation.
Amen again! We also agree that no one can snatch the faithful from the Father’s hand. But it is equally true that we who are in God’s hand can spurn that love and turn away. Thus, we are not snatched, but we can jump away on our own.
John 5:24
24"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and (A)believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and (B)does not come into judgment, but has (C)passed out of death into life. {/quote]Amen. But, again, this does not support OSAS. What is it to believe Him? Is it a momentary consent of the intellect? Is it a momentary spirit-filled experience with the Holy Spirit in a warm church on a Sunday morning? Or is Christian belief best described as the living of a life in right relationship with God?
ForeverGrace:
But consider the parable of the prodigal son. He had the inheritence but squandered it. He repented and returned to restore that relationship with His Father. God, like the Father in the parable, wants that relationship with us. But he did not force his son to return. His son could have died in a foreign land, steeped in sin. So, again, it is not about doubting the power of God to save us, make us justified and righteous. It is about what we do after that initial moment of justification and how we continue the good work begun in us through Christ, working with him and in him.
ForeverGrace:
Amen. This contradicts your position insofar as you believe the work of salvation is perfected in one moment. This passage shows God continues to work on us, through us, in us, from the moment of our first belief to the moment we see him face-to-face. This work requires our cooperation or it is dead faith.
Faith must be living faith to save. Faith remains alive only if we allow Christ to complete what was begun. It’s not OSAS … it is faith working in love that saves.
Peace,
Robert
Just arrived,sorry haven’t read the whole thread,
Sometimes when sinful behavior is pointed out, it is mentioned