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Crusader13
New member
THEY ARE IDOLS! The Vatican and the Pope identified them as Pachamama statues. Pachamama is a pagan goddess.
Too many people are trying to downplay the seriousness of this issue.
We’re not talking about a child playing with a Thor action figure during Mass.
J
JimmyDFG
Guest
Likely wanting fame
Emeraldlady
New member
We were told that these figures are sold as souvenirs in the Amazon and they were bought in a market some years ago as a sort of symbol or logo of the group at the Synod promoting care for the ecology of the Amazon. They are not idols and they are not used to worship a goddess. Pope Francis said that.Emeraldlady:
Perhaps I misunderstood the Popes words when he identified them as Pachamama statues. Pachamama is in fact a pagan goddess.
As has been mentioned over and over, we have adopted many pagan symbols into Christianity. Halloween, Christmas, Easter. Our Franciscan tau crosses were adapted from the Tammuz used in Babylonian mysticism.
While Pope Francis and the good bishops of common sense in our Church appreciate the symbols brought to the Synod as cultural and representing ethical ecological habits, I’m fine with their benignity… not being an expert myself. I don’t see all these radicals as having any discernment or holy mission whatsoever. I pray they can be silenced.
Emeraldlady
New member
I’m a lifelong Catholic. Why should I believe you over the Pope?AlbMagno:
THEY ARE IDOLS! The Vatican and the Pope identified them as Pachamama statues. Pachamama is a pagan goddess.
Too many people are trying to downplay the seriousness of this issue.
We’re not talking about a child playing with a Thor action figure during Mass.
And they bow down and offer sacrifice to this?
Seems a pointless exercise if it really was not an idol.
I remain confident in my assessment.
The Pope identified it as a pagan idol, and they had a ceremony in which they bowed down and offered towards it…in other words, worship.
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The Pope did identify it as a pagan idol.
Emeraldlady
New member
I believe that it is unethical to cast the Pope in your assessment, as either stupid or evil. He said it was not there as an idol or worshipped. I believe him and find nothing at all to fear in listening to other peoples faith stories in order to find a place for Christ to grow in their culture.Emeraldlady:
And they bow down and offer sacrifice to this?
Seems a pointless exercise if it really was not an idol.
I remain confident in my assessment.
The Pope identified it as a pagan idol, and they had a ceremony in which they bowed down and offered towards it…in other words, worship.
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AlbMagno
Guest
Your phone can be an idol if you focus too much on it. That’s why I said necessarily. Every object or worldly pleasure can be an idol.
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Emeraldlady
New member
The Pope said it wasn’t involved as an idol or in worship. It is a cultural symbol.Emeraldlady:
The Pope did identify it as a pagan idol.
Emeraldlady
New member
I know you are right!
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Elias
Guest
God bless brave men like him for doing the right thing and throwing out those abhorrent idols. Keep him in your prayers, as well as the church and the hierarchy.
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MiserereMeiDei
Guest
It’s not stealing since whoever placed an idol there had no right to do so meaning it has no business being there. No one has a right to place an idol in a church. No one. If you want to keep idols safe put them in the temples of idolaters.
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MiserereMeiDei
Guest
Because there was a large group of people making obeisance to them in front of him. Obviously you can believe whatever you like but you can’t really expect other people to ignore what the pope rubs in their faces just because you choose to do so.
Crusader13
New member
Do you dance around your phone and carry it on your shoulders in a liturgical procession?
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rom
Guest
Of course motherhood can be recognized as universal and a gift from God. But the Pachamama, as a symbol of motherhood, is still not suitable for veneration in the church. Only statues of Christ, the Blessed Virgin, or the saints are allowed. Did you miss my post (Post #120) above?
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Such a strong accusation.
Yet neither was said.
False accusations run contrary to charity.
I maintain my position. The Pope identified it as a pagan idol. I watched the broadcast as some group bowed down and paid homage to it.
Crusader13
New member
We understand all to well.
We’ve tried to convince you and @Emeraldlady because the issue of idolatry and pagan worship is a serious offense. Not to mention it was allowed to be displayed inside one of our own Churches, at an altar no less.
What exactly do you think our motive is? Do you honesty believe that we want to be right? Do you think it gives a sense of pride knowing that our Pope and members of our clergy have allowed this???
You want to take comfort in the words of the Vatican officials, rather then believe your own lying eyes, then so be it. But let’s not pretend that this issue is some baseless attack against the Pope or the Amazonian people.
God forgive us if we’re wrong, but if we’re right, then God help us all.
They were not bowing and offering to a cell phone. They were bowing and offering to a pagan idol.
R
rom
Guest
It was the Pope, not the Vatican spokesperson, who called the statues as the Pachamama. You can even read the full transcript of the Pope’s remarks here: Full transcript of the Pope’s comments on pagan ‘Pachamama’ statues | News | LifeSite
The Synod was for the Amazonians, but the Church of St. Mary in Traspontina, where the statues were removed, is for all Catholics, not just the Amazonians. The Austrians have a right to be there.
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