One of the men who threw the Idols (Pachamama) in the Tiber speaks!

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goout said:
Jesus would have gathered his followers, went down to the temple, stole various items and thrown them into the Jordan to score points for his way.
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Not quite.
He would go into the temple, overturn the money changers tables and drive them out with a whip.
 
rom said:
The prelates responsible for putting the idols in the church are very lucky because the Austrians only cast the idols into the Tiber. If they had followed Christ’s example to the letter, they would have thrown the prelates (who put those idols in the church) into the Tiber, too.
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First, the “Austrians” Is so far a person or a small group. Austria has their prelates
Second,there is something very wrong when somebody speaks of Jesus going against persons like this.
And third, no one has to be. “ grateful” to be “ spared” under that bully style comment.
 
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Those possibilities were already exhausted. Countless people were performing prayer vigils and standing outside with signs, what else?
 
I posted this in another thread, but I’m not sure it was stealing under the moral law (under civil law it probably was, although I have no idea about Vatican/Roman law).

From the Catechism of Pius X
2 Q. What is meant by stealing?
A. It means taking another’s goods unjustly and against the owner’s will, that is to say, when he has every reason and right to be unwilling to be deprived of them.
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From the CCC:
2408…There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason…
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There is certainly an argument that a Catholic church has no right to retain pagan idols for public veneration and doing so is certainly contrary to reason.
 
vz71 said:
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goout:
Jesus would have gathered his followers, went down to the temple, stole various items and thrown them into the Jordan to score points for his way.
Click to expand...
Not quite.
He would go into the temple, overturn the money changers tables and drive them out with a whip.
Click to expand...
so now let me see if I understand what you are saying:
You are saying that Jesus took the money from the changer’s tables and spirited it away somewhere else, recorded himself throwing them away, and then formed a foundation.

Right? Is that what you’re saying?!
 
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Like reading a certain unnamed magazine “for the articles,” you might say.
 
goout said:
It is stealing. By definition.
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Materially it is the same act as stealing. But formally it is not. The proper term for it is “cleansing the church of idols.” Why don’t you read my Post #86? And if you don’t agree, then tell me where I went wrong. Simply asserting the same thing over and over does not make the act an act of theft.
goout said:
You are not above the catechism or the Church’s moral teaching.
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Agreed. But the teaching of the catechism does not apply in this case because this is not an act of theft. I also agree that you may not do evil so that good might result. But cleansing the church of idols is not evil, but a very good thing in itself.
 
Let me be specifically clear then.
I disagree with your post #86.
For all the reasons that have been elucidated in the last 50 posts.
What you are doing is moral equivocation because you sympathize passionately with the cause.
 
The fact is it isn’t theft because there is no right for the Catholic Church to possess and worship idols.
 
That makes no sense. Sorry.
And I agree no idols belong in the Church.

Can you find a way to reconcile the problem without stealing?
Not that hard.
 
goout said:
Can you find a way to reconcile the problem without stealing?
Not that hard.
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Yeah we’re still waiting to hear what those are. You told us prayer vigils, which were already being done and Idols were put in Church in spite of said vigils. You also mentioned hopping in the Tiber. Not sure how that resolves the Idol issue, plus I thought publicity stunts were bad? So much for that.
 
It has already been answered in aquinas’s post. It isn’t theft. Ownership of property isn’t absolute, and consequently its removal from its owner isn’t always theft. I assume you probably would argue that a slave has no right to run away and anyone who removes a slave from his or her owners property is committing theft.

Your idea of walking to Austria to raise awareness is lame and depends on a sympathetic media to show your walk in a positive light. This isn’t a fight against cancer.
 
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Babaganoush said:
It has already been answered in aquinas’s post. It isn’t theft.
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It is theft.
Hey look at that. You assert. I assert. We both assert.
Read the catechism and don’t make moral excuses.

You have no connection to excuse the theft of the statues as solving the idolatry issue.

Catholics:
you should know better.
 
Genesis315 said:
I posted this in another thread, but I’m not sure it was stealing under the moral law (under civil law it probably was, although I have no idea about Vatican/Roman law).

From the Catechism of Pius X
2 Q. What is meant by stealing?
A. It means taking another’s goods unjustly and against the owner’s will, that is to say, when he has every reason and right to be unwilling to be deprived of them.
Click to expand...
You are stretching morality to shreds there.
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Did you read the catechism quotes posted by aquinas or are you just pretending they don’t exist?

Edit: I attributed to aquinas what was posted by genesis
 
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Not necessarily, the legitimate defense of person or persons against the murder with the intentional killing.
Now without jeopardizing the credibility of the pope what “greater evil” would be taking place since the pope stated the statues were there “without idolatrous intentions”?
 
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