One thing i don't like about Ann Coulter..

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You misunderstood my post. I never said I was remaining childless to maintain my happy life. I was saying that if people who have children are so happy and confident with their life path, they would be secure enough to not go after those who live differently. I personally know couples with children who dont believe im selfish or offended by my lifestyle just because its different.

the only time it is OK for a Christian couple to NOT have children in marriage is when they are incapable of it… through age or whatever…

I think it is wrong to not have children … it is even wrong to use natural b-control to prevent children… indefinitely… when there is no $ or other good reason to not have children…

if people (christians… ) don’t want to have children they shouldn’t get married.

they will have to do un-natural things to keep from having children… Even natural b-control is somewhat un-natural if done ALL the time, for the rest of one’s life so as to have NO children…

The RCC teaches against using b-control this way…

 

[distracted]

My mother was basically a single parent. Yeah my dad still lives with us, but he never did anything to help raise my brother and myself. He was a womenizer who had multiple affairs, was emotionaly abbusive to all of us, and was a fall down drunk. My brother and I were scared him. Now tell me we were better off because we had two parents. It was because of my father that I was a major cutter (self mutilator) in my teens. I was severely depressed. If it hadn’t been for my mom I would probably have commited suicide. I wish she had been an actual single mother, I would have had a happier childhood without my father.
I don’t agree with this bashing of single mothers. Most of the time it is because the men tuck tail and leave because their not man enough to be fathers.
Ann Coulter is a vile person. She is the conservative Rosie O’Donnel.

I’m sorry for what you’ve been through… i know (somewht first-hand) what some of that was like. I have a good father (good enough…), but i have been romantically involved w/ men like your father…

even so i think you misunderstand coulter… she is not saying that all single mother situations are bad…

True, she should SAY something to that effect… but her main thing is that she is against irresponsibility. Abusive men who womanize, etc… should NOT be having children, married or not… until they grow up… But the problem is (sometimes) that women don’t demand that a man be responsible BEFORE they agree to have children with him…

and i am not myself bashing women here… because many women are ignorant abaout such things until it is too late… (until they are already deeply involved)… it is understandable to be ignorant…

What i dislike about coulter sometimes is that she doesn’t seem to take ignorance into account… All people are ignorant of SOMETHING / many things… we are not God… we cannot always look at a situation we are contemplating getting involved in and say, “Nope, can’t do that… since this [and that and the other thing] will happen if i do…” Human beings are incapable of doing that kind of thing all the time… esp when they are not raised by responsible parents themselves… not taught any better.

I do think Coulter is remiss not to mention such things… ’

although i still like her… (what she has to say…)

 

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This is a huge generalization, querying, making the assumption that all men everywhere are out for sex and will push themselves on a woman. This was not true of me in my relationships with women. In some cases, it was quite the opposite. There are men out there who are not out to sex up a girl. Women have hormones, too. You paint men as mindless sex zombies who will, without any morals, go as far as they can unless the highly-moral female stops them. Hogwash. Maybe in a frat house, but never was like that in my house.

i tend to agree… i didn’t like the remark either…

if women act like men are animals who can’t control themselves…

maybe the men in their lives will tend to think so also… or something…

i think also that society in general reinforces this macho thing… Men are told in subtle ways that they are to be “conquerors”… and they often brag to one another about their conquests, whether in battle, in fishing or hunting … or with women… Objectively speaking, its pathetic… that men AND women go along w/ this kind of thing… but society does enforce these kinds of stereotypes… and often it is not easy to go against the grain of society… (100%)

 

[akoso]

I know someone who said No to a man and he just raped her anyway…

then i know someone who said NO, got date- raped & got pregnant… fortuantately she was pro-life…

men do NOT (always) stop just because a woman says No… not freaking hardly…

i know a woman who told me that if a woman is at a man’s house, in his bed, even if she says No, if the man forces himself on her, it is not rape… and that if she gets pregannt, he shouldn’t have to pay child support???

Although I’m quoting you, my reply isn’t only directed towards you. I just find that many people on these (and other) forums use “I know someone…” or “well, my brother…” as proof of their point. There are almost 7 billion people in the world… you can find one person as an example of almost anything you want. But it doesn’t prove anything in terms of what is the norm, what is socially acceptable, what should be expected, or what rules/laws should be based around.

 

[distracted]

Although I’m quoting you, my reply isn’t only directed towards you. I just find that many people on these (and other) forums use “I know someone…” or “well, my brother…” as proof of their point. There are almost 7 billion people in the world… you can find one person as an example of almost anything you want. But it doesn’t prove anything in terms of what is the norm, what is socially acceptable, what should be expected, or what rules/laws should be based around.

hate to be the bearer of bad news but women really ARE raped… often…

 

[akoso]

the only child-less marriages i believe in are the ones in which the couple cannot naturally have children - through no “doing” of their own…

people who are fertile & get married w/ no intention of having children … who plan to use artificial or natural birth control in order to NEVER have children…

are acting ammorally… un Christian…

Why are they acting immorally? Marriage is a “contract” that binds a man and a woman to each other through God. There are obviously stipulations and rules to be followed regarding how to raise children, but I’ve never heard that there is an obligation to bear children, if possible.

 

[akoso]

hate to be the bearer of bad news but women really ARE raped… often…

Often is definitely pushing it, but you’re right… rape is a serious issue. I’m not arguing that at all. I’m just saying that claiming you know someone who fits scenario x is not proof of scenario x being commonplace or anything else. Claiming that you know someone who fits scenario x is only proof that scenario x has happened at least once.

 

[distracted]

Why are they acting immorally? Marriage is a “contract” that binds a man and a woman to each other through God. There are obviously stipulations and rules to be followed regarding how to raise children, but I’ve never heard that there is an obligation to bear children, if possible.

for one thing if you are fertile you will have children if you get married (unles its a celibate mariage?)

you will have to thwart nature in order to not have children…

so nature agrees with me…

then there’s the Cathlic Church… which teaches what i said in my post…

i would go further and say that if a couple can afford to have 10 children and only has 2, they are not being truly Christian in their approach to marriage… (not sure what the church’s position is on this, however)

If God gave a person fertility, it is rather a slap in his face to have no children…

 

[distracted]

Often is definitely pushing it, but you’re right… rape is a serious issue. I’m not arguing that at all. I’m just saying that claiming you know someone who fits scenario x is not proof of scenario x being commonplace or anything else. Claiming that you know someone who fits scenario x is only proof that scenario x has happened at least once.

well, do you want me to count all the women who have told me they were raped… throughout my entire life??

i wasn’t trying to mention every single case i knew of (or suspected)…

some cases of force aren’t even called rape… If a woman says No… in a date-situation… but she is aroused and finding it hard to say Absolute No… In other words, her body says one hting, her mind something else… she’s not 100% in favor of sex…

if the man just persues the issue, it is rape… No means NO…

I don’t see what kind of man would even want sex from a woman who is saying No over and over … regardless of how aroused she may appear to be… I’m just glad i have more sense than to engage in such problematic and dangerous activity… :banghead:

but young women… hmm… they should tell such a “man” to go fly a freaking kite… (or some other such thing… )

 

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I found this when i googled “rape… number of occurences in US”

The news stories of different national dailies clearly show that crime especially the sexual crimes are on the increase in our country. As reported by the daily Inqilab in its 18th June 1998 issue, the number of rape cases perpetrated throughout the country during the last April and May is 212 and the shocking fact is that out of these cases 93 cases were of gang-rape.

This alarming tendency of sexual crime prevailing in our society has definitely appalled us and made the people panic-stricken. The principal ***reasons for this frequency of rape ***cases as have been identified in different seminars held for the last few months on the issue are as follows:

The over all deterioration of law and order in the country and the failure and inefficiency of police administration and the absence of their active role in applying law are largely responsible for this ever increasing tendency of different types of crimes specially rape cases. It is evident that in most cases the law-enforcing agencies fail to detect and apprehend the criminals.

It takes a long time to prosecute and take legal action against the criminals because of the tardiness of the judicial inquiry and delay in trial of the cases. As a result the fear and apprehension of punishment is growing less among the criminals.

All kinds of ***pornography ***and porno-literature as well as obscene film are greatly responsible for the rape cases. The authority, to speak the truth, has no control over the pervasive pornography of our society which are almost open to the people of all classes and ages to tempt them into sensual indulgences and the ultimate victims are the women. These types of pornography are definitely leading our population astray, impairing the moral health of the young generation and contaminating the whole society gradually.
The fourth notable reason for this tendency of crime is the absence of morality from the curricula of our education system. In the name of some philosophy or doctrine, religious education has, in fact, been made marginal.

*i don’t think most rape cases are even reported, much less prosecuted…

women: carry mace (and a cell phone)*

 

[akoso]

well, do you want me to count all the women who have told me they were raped… throughout my entire life??

Alright, this is gonna get out of hand, so I’ll just reiterate what I said in previous post and then leave it alone (for fear of the subject of the thread getting off topic).

I didn’t say I want you to enumerate all of the women who have told you they were raped. All I said was that saying “I know someone who…” is not proof. Just because an incident happened once does not prove that it happens frequently. I’m not suggesting that rape is uncommon… I’m only highlighting that many times on this forum, people use a single example as proof of something, when they would have a stronger argument quoting a statistic or study or something that is factually based on a large sample.

*Note: I’m not asking for you to provide statistics, as I’m not disagreeing with what you said.

 

[distracted]

Alright, this is gonna get out of hand, so I’ll just reiterate what I said in previous post and then leave it alone (for fear of the subject of the thread getting off topic).

I didn’t say I want you to enumerate all of the women who have told you they were raped. All I said was that saying “I know someone who…” is not proof. Just because an incident happened once does not prove that it happens frequently. I’m not suggesting that rape is uncommon… I’m only highlighting that many times on this forum, people use a single example as proof of something, when they would have a stronger argument quoting a statistic or study or something that is factually based on a large sample.

*Note: I’m not asking for you to provide statistics, as I’m not disagreeing with what you said.

otay…

 

[akoso]

for one thing if you are fertile you will have children if you get married (unles its a celibate mariage?)

Incorrect. If you don’t have sex while the woman is fertile, then she can’t get pregnant. Hence the Roman Catholic Church approved Natural Family Planning. Engaging in sexual intercourse at an infertile time in a woman’s life is considered acceptable, because the infertile state is natural and created by God.

you will have to thwart nature in order to not have children…
so nature agrees with me…

Is NFP thwarting nature? And if not, then why is it okay to only have 1 child and use NFP to prevent having future ones… vs. not having any children at all?

i would go further and say that if a couple can afford to have 10 children and only has 2, they are not being truly Christian in their approach to marriage… (not sure what the church’s position is on this, however)

I disagree… but that’s my opinion versus yours.

If God gave a person fertility, it is rather a slap in his face to have no children…

God gave me the ability to skate, but I don’t think it’s a slap in God’s face if I don’t pursue speed skating as a career. Everybody has the ability to draw (to some level), but I don’t think it’s a slap in God’s face that not everyone sketches on a regular basis. God gave me the ability to shoot a gun, but I don’t for a second think that I am slapping God in the face by not enlisting in the army.

 

[distracted]

Incorrect. If you don’t have sex while the woman is fertile, then she can’t get pregnant. Hence the Roman Catholic Church approved Natural Family Planning. Engaging in sexual intercourse at an infertile time in a woman’s life is considered acceptable, because the infertile state is natural and created by God.

Is NFP thwarting nature? And if not, then why is it okay to only have 1 child and use NFP to prevent having future ones… vs. not having any children at all?

I disagree… but that’s my opinion versus yours.

God gave me the ability to skate, but I don’t think it’s a slap in God’s face if I don’t pursue speed skating as a career. .

yes but if you put on skates, you are going to skate…

 

[akoso]

yes but if you put on skates, you are going to skate…

… as long as there’s ice to skate on. Just as if you have sex, you’re going to conceive… as long as the woman is in a fertile state.

 

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… as long as there’s ice to skate on. Just as if you have sex, you’re going to conceive… as long as the woman is in a fertile state.

so why give yourself half-way to someone…

if you can’t give yor whole self… why get married?

a lot of women don’t think they want children until they have them…

And if they REALLY don’t want them, i just think they shouldnt bother getting married…

The Church agrees…

 

[akoso]

so why give yourself half-way to someone…

if you can’t give yor whole self… why get married?

a lot of women don’t think they want children until they have them…

And if they REALLY don’t want them, i just think they shouldnt bother getting married…

Personally, I don’t understand this logic. According to that logic, all people who are infertile “shouldn’t bother getting married”. I think marriage is about more than just raising children. If you meet someone who you love, who makes you a better person, and who makes your life better to be with than not, then I don’t see why it wouldn’t be a positive thing to marry him/her. You talk about natural vs. unnatural… THAT is a very natural thing that we all feel.

The Church agrees…

Where?

 

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Personally, I don’t understand this logic. According to that logic, all people who are infertile “shouldn’t bother getting married”. I think marriage is about more than just raising children. If you meet someone who you love, who makes you a better person, and who makes your life better to be with than not, then I don’t see why it wouldn’t be a positive thing to marry him/her. You talk about natural vs. unnatural… THAT is a very natural thing that we all feel.

The Church says that all married acts are to be open to life. A doctor can tell someone she can’t have children but she can be open to it… There have been women over 50 who had children, some unexpectedly… The Church teaches that sex is for unitive and also procreative purposes… If you love someone so much, you will want to have a child with him/her… But then again, how can you want what you’ve never had? maybe that’s one reason why the Church is against b-control… You can say you don’t want children but who knows what you will say in 10 yrs or 20… ? In any case, the Church and the bible see having chilren as a blessing from God… If you are not a Christian, then i guess this doesn’t apply to you…

 

[mkingdomlvr]

The Church says that all married acts are to be open to life. A doctor can tell someone she can’t have children but she can be open to it… There have been women over 50 who had children, some unexpectedly… The Church teaches that sex is for unitive and also procreative purposes… If you love someone so much, you will want to have a child with him/her… But then again, how can you want what you’ve never had? maybe that’s one reason why the Church is against b-control… You can say you don’t want children but who knows what you will say in 10 yrs or 20… ? In any case, the Church and the bible see having chilren as a blessing from God… If you are not a Christian, then i guess this doesn’t apply to you…

If you are not Catholic it wouldn’t apply, other Christian denominations do not link marriage and children as tightly. From what I can deduct from years of experience, for Catholics the PRIMARY purpose of marriage is to make more Catholics, the unity between man and wife is a nice secondary result.

 

[akoso]

A doctor can tell someone she can’t have children but she can be open to it…

I think that’s a moot point. That’s like me saying I’m open to playing in the NBA. But whether I’m open to it or not is a moot point, because it won’t happen.

how can you want what you’ve never had? maybe that’s one reason why the Church is against b-control.
But the Church isn’t against birth control… only non-natural birth control. If it is immoral to be married and not have children (when possible), I don’t understand how the Church can also support NFP. They contradict each other.