Only The Elect Are Saved and Will Be

[Odell]

I ask you one more thing…are these people that you talk about really in Christ??

Not after sining

Rom 11:22-23 "God’s kindness toward you provided that you remain in His kindness; if you do not, you too will be cut off.”

In Jn 15:6 Jesus tells us that “Anyone who does not remain in ME will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will burn.”

Jesus talks about those who are IN HIM. It does not get any clearer than this; these people are Christians (saved) and are then tossed out. One cannot be tossed out without first being “in.”

Harden not your heart

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)

For those that are IN HIM

QUESTION

IN CHRIST in the passage you give means saved this is how you interprit IN CHRIST

But when Scripture says elsewhere When Jesus says IN ME “IN CHRIST” This is not the saved. This is where they need a smilie with one pulling there hair out

But this will have to do:banghead: except banghead isnt the proper name for this smilie

Again there is no condemnation for those who are IN HIM but if you dont remain IN HIM you are tossed out

I know its hard but you should read the whole bible not just cherry pick verses

**
Are they sheep?**

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29 KJV)
**

**

:banghead:

Did they pass from death to life?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

That would include Judas

Were they born again?

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18 KJV)

try this

again read all of scripture

Let’s take a look at the parable of the prodigal son in (Luke 15:11-32). We can see that the father did not stop his son from leaving. When the son left his father he was still his son and he loved him no less. But was he still saved? NO, we know this because when the son comes back the father says, my son was DEAD and is ALIVE AGAIN. He was lost but when he comes back he is found. It was still his son but his son was dead in spirit. If some one is lost they are not saved persons. But when he repents and turns back to his father he is alive once again.

This would be alian to you but that is why Im showing what Scripture says elsewhere. It happens to support my claims of how we interprit the verses you have given you will find it hard to blow off these scripture passages but you should pray about it.

Were they Children of God?

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (Romans 8:14 KJV)

Read about the Prodigal Son

What coffee do you prefere Folgers or Maxwell House?
It seems to me you like to think things over a cup of coffee. Well I have one with ya.

:coffeeread:

 

[sandusky]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

That would include Judas

Can you give biblical support that Judas was elect to salvation, truly saved, regenerated, justified, and then he lost all of that blessing?

 

[Cling2Cross]

Not after sining

Rom 11:22-23 "God’s kindness toward you provided that you remain in His kindness; if you do not, you too will be cut off.”

In Jn 15:6 Jesus tells us that “Anyone who does not remain in ME will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will burn.”

Jesus talks about those who are IN HIM. It does not get any clearer than this; these people are Christians (saved) and are then tossed out. One cannot be tossed out without first being “in.”

Harden not your heart

For those that are IN HIM

QUESTION

IN CHRIST in the passage you give means saved this is how you interprit IN CHRIST

But when Scripture says elsewhere When Jesus says IN ME “IN CHRIST” This is not the saved. This is where they need a smilie with one pulling there hair out

But this will have to do:banghead: except banghead isnt the proper name for this smilie

Again there is no condemnation for those who are IN HIM but if you dont remain IN HIM you are tossed out

I know its hard but you should read the whole bible not just cherry pick verses

:banghead:

That would include Judas

try this

again read all of scripture

Let’s take a look at the parable of the prodigal son in (Luke 15:11-32). We can see that the father did not stop his son from leaving. When the son left his father he was still his son and he loved him no less. But was he still saved? NO, we know this because when the son comes back the father says, my son was DEAD and is ALIVE AGAIN. He was lost but when he comes back he is found. It was still his son but his son was dead in spirit. If some one is lost they are not saved persons. But when he repents and turns back to his father he is alive once again.

This would be alian to you but that is why Im showing what Scripture says elsewhere. It happens to support my claims of how we interprit the verses you have given you will find it hard to blow off these scripture passages but you should pray about it.

Read about the Prodigal Son

What coffee do you prefere Folgers or Maxwell House?
It seems to me you like to think things over a cup of coffee. Well I have one with ya.

:coffeeread:

Now that would clear up a lot of confusion

 

[Cling2Cross]

Just a quick point about the prodigal son - this is not about those who lost their salvation and made their way home…this is about…

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isaiah 53:6 KJV)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23 KJV)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Romans 3:10-12 KJV)

All have gone astray and loved other things over and above God…that was what the Prodigal Son represented. He was received by grace.

Again - you are using words to your benefit without looking at it from the whole context of scripture. All are dead in trespasses and sins.

C2C

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalms 51:5 KJV)

 

[Cling2Cross]

Just a quick point about the prodigal son - this is not about those who lost their salvation and made their way home…this is about…

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Isaiah 53:6 KJV)

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23 KJV)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Romans 3:10-12 KJV)

All have gone astray and loved other things over and above God…that was what the Prodigal Son represented. He was received by grace.

Again - you are using words to your benefit without looking at it from the whole context of scripture. All are dead in trespasses and sins.

C2C

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalms 51:5 KJV)

 

[fbl9]

Can you give biblical support that Judas was elect to salvation, truly saved, regenerated, justified, and then he lost all of that blessing?

…i ask what biblical proof points to the contary?

 

[Odell]

Again - you are using words to your benefit without looking at it from the whole context of scripture. All are dead in trespasses and sins.

C2C
)

Thats it

Rom 11:22-23 "God’s kindness toward you provided that you remain in His kindness; if you do not, you too will be cut off.”

In Jn 15:6 Jesus tells us that “Anyone who does not remain **in ME **will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will burn.”

Jesus talks about those who are IN HIM. It does not get any clearer than this; these people are Christians (saved) and are then tossed out. One cannot be tossed out without first being “in.”

Quote:
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1 KJV)

For those that are IN HIM

QUESTION

IN CHRIST in the passage you give means saved this is how you interprit IN CHRIST

But when Scripture says elsewhere When Jesus says IN ME “IN CHRIST” This is not the saved. This is where they need a smilie with one pulling there hair out

Im using scripture C2C no play on words

**In Christ **is **In Christ **Expecially when It is **JESUS **who is the one saying IN ME

Its scriptural its logic cant help you have no answer because what you believe is twisting scripture

:coffeeread:

 

[sandusky]

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24 KJV)

That would include Judas

Can you give biblical support that Judas was elect to salvation, truly saved, regenerated, justified, and then he lost all of that blessing?

:coffeeread:

 

[Sean_Boyle]

…i ask what biblical proof points to the contary?

Good Question. Still waiting on an answer, I see. Allow me to add to the question for clarification purposes.

Was the act of returning the silver an act of repentance? How about taking his own life?

All that is said is it was better that he never was born. Do you claim to know exactly what that means?
Do you claim to know the extent of God forgiveness without exception?

You claim that Judas was never saved to begin with. The challenge is to prove that with scripture.

 

[Odell]

Good Question. Still waiting on an answer, I see. Allow me to add to the question for clarification purposes.

Was the act of returning the silver an act of repentance? How about taking his own life?

All that is said is it was better that he never was born. Do you claim to know exactly what that means?
Do you claim to know the extent of God forgiveness without exception?

You claim that Judas was never saved to begin with. The challenge is to prove that with scripture.

I second that

Ill say in was IN CHRIST but He became a branch but who knows he could have turned back?

Only God knows the Heart.

:coffeeread:

 

[Pax]

Just a quick point about the prodigal son - this is not about those who lost their salvation and made their way home…this is about…
…
…

You do not understand the parable of the Prodigal Son. Please remember that the son is a member of the household before he goes off and squanders his inheritance.

Please connect these facts about the prodigal son to the following scriptures.

Rom 8:15-17
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” it is that very Spirit bearing witness as children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ-if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.

2 Cor 6:17-18
Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you, and I will be your father, and you shall be my** sons and daughters**, says the Lord Almighty."

Gal 4:7
So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God.

1 John 3:1-2
See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and that is what we are.
…Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we will be has not yet been revealed.

Rom 8:19
For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God;

Col 3:23-24
Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ.

The Prodigal Son represents the saved as members of the household of God. As adopted sons and daughters we have an inheritance which is eternal life. We, like the prodigal son, can leave the household and squander that inheritance. We like the prodigal son can be dead in sin. We like the prodigal son can repent and return to the household.

The parable of the prodigal son is for us the Christian believers. It is not a reference to someone that was never a member of the household.

 

[Pax]

Can you give biblical support that Judas was elect to salvation, truly saved, regenerated, justified, and then he lost all of that blessing?

I believe that my post #46 should be sufficient. Moreover, I can show from the NT that there were others that were initially saved that also fell away or were in danger of losing their salvation because of choosing sin at some point over God.

 

[Odell]

You do not understand the parable of the Prodigal Son. Please remember that the son is a member of the household before he goes off and squanders his inheritance.

Please connect these facts about the prodigal son to the following scriptures.

Rom 8:15-17
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” it is that very Spirit bearing witness as children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ-if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.

2 Cor 6:17-18
Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you, and I will be your father, and you shall be my** sons and daughters**, says the Lord Almighty."

Gal 4:7
So you are no longer a slave but a child, and if a child then also an heir, through God.

1 John 3:1-2
See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and that is what we are.
…Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we will be has not yet been revealed.

Rom 8:19
For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the children of God;

Col 3:23-24
Whatever your task, put yourselves into it, as done for the Lord and not for your masters, since you know that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you serve the Lord Christ.

The Prodigal Son represents the saved as members of the household of God. As adopted sons and daughters we have an inheritance which is eternal life. We, like the prodigal son, can leave the household and squander that inheritance. We like the prodigal son can be dead in sin. We like the prodigal son can repent and return to the household.

The parable of the prodigal son is for us the Christian believers. It is not a reference to someone that was never a member of the household.

Thanks Pax

It is called reading Scripture as a whole couldnt have worded it any better

:coffeeread:

 

[Odell]

**In Christ **is **In Christ **Expecially when It is **JESUS **who is the one saying IN ME

:coffeeread:

:coffeeread:

 

[NotWorthy]

You do not understand the parable of the Prodigal Son. Please remember that the son is a member of the household before he goes off and squanders his inheritance.

Please connect these facts about the prodigal son to the following scriptures…

The Prodigal Son represents the saved as members of the household of God. As adopted sons and daughters we have an inheritance which is eternal life. We, like the prodigal son, can leave the household and squander that inheritance. We like the prodigal son can be dead in sin. We like the prodigal son can repent and return to the household.

The parable of the prodigal son is for us the Christian believers. It is not a reference to someone that was never a member of the household.

How do we know that the Prodigal Son was “In Christ” and then lost it?

Luke 15:23-24 - Take the fattened calf and slaughter it. Then let us celebrate with a feast, because this son of mine was dead, and has come to life again*; he was lost, and has been found.’ Then the celebration began***.

The son had Eternal Life, then he gave it away (when he squandered his inheritance), then he received Eternal Life again!!!

 

[sandusky]

Pax:

Nice try on Judas, but by your own doctrine you interpretation fails. Please note that Judas was just as saved as everyone else until he fell into sin and betrayed Jesus.

You believe that we are saved by faith alone. This is the Achilles heal of your argument above. Please note that scripture tells us that Judas was a believer. We see this, for example, in the narrative of the marriage feast at Cana.

In John 2:11 it says:

“This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory; and his disciples believed in him.”

I don’t see how that proves anything concerning Judas, who’s not even named in the group identified prior to the passage. After all, Peter believed in Him so much that, on the night He was arrested, he denied him, and, with the exception of the one who betrayed Him, the rest of them scattered when He was crucified, and later returned to fishing; 2:11 doesn’t conclusively prove anything concerning Judas’ faith.

Pax:

Even Judas was given the authority over unclean spirits and the power of healing. Judas was a believer.

In Mt 7:22, Jesus states that on the day of judgment many will plead that they had cast out demons, and performed many miracles in His name, and yet, Jesus’ tells them, “I never knew you,” in the sense that they were given to him to be raised up on the last day (Jn 6), because they weren’t. A similar scene is recorded Mt 8.

Pax:

We see it again in Matthew 14:33 where it says, "And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

What does that prove? Satan and his minions know that Jesus is the Son of God:**Matthew 8:28-29

When He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way. And they cried out, saying, “What business do we have with each other, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”**Furthermore, Jn 4:24 states that God must be worshipped in spirit and truth; how do you know that Judas ever worshipped Jesus in truth?

Pax:

We see it again in Jn 17:8 where Jesus says, “and they have believed that thou didst send me.”

Jesus is using only pronouns in that passage; how is it that you include Judas in that group given by the Father to Jesus to raise up on the last day?

In v12, Jesus says He didn’t lose any of those the Father entrusted to Him to be raised up on the last day.

 

[NotWorthy]

I don’t see how that proves anything concerning Judas, who’s not even named in the group identified prior to the passage. After all, Peter believed in Him so much that, on the night He was arrested, he denied him, and, with the exception of the one who betrayed Him, the rest of them scattered when He was crucified, and later returned to fishing; 2:11 doesn’t conclusively prove anything concerning Judas’ faith.

This is a good point. Peter, who we know was saved, according to Jesus’ words in John’s Gospel at the Last Supper, still denied Christ as you pointed out.

Jesus’ words even prophecy this.

Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers."

The point being that Peter was saved, and then denied Christ, only to be saved again.

 

[sandusky]

NotWorthy:

The point being that Peter was saved, and then denied Christ, only to be saved again.

You’re begging the question—assuming that your conclusion is true (with no support).

Jesus prayed that Peter’s faith would not ”ekleipo”—be fully and finally eclipsed.

Jesus is seen in that passage, acting in His capacity as “High Priest.” As High Priest, Jesus always lives to make intercession for the those the Father has entrusted to Him to raise up on the last day (Heb 7:25). Judas is not included in the group given to Jesus by the Father to be raised up in the last day.

Concerning that group, Jesus clearly states that He lost none (Jn 17:12).

 

[NotWorthy]

You’re begging the question—assuming that your conclusion is true (with no support).

Jesus prayed that Peter’s faith would not ”ekleipo”—be fully and finally eclipsed.

Jesus is seen in that passage, acting in His capacity as “High Priest.” As High Priest, Jesus always lives to make intercession for the those the Father has entrusted to Him to raise up on the last day (Heb 7:25). Judas is not included in the group given to Jesus by the Father to be raised up in the last day.

Concerning that group, Jesus clearly states that He lost none (Jn 17:12).

My point was not about Judas. I don’t have an opinion on him. My point was Peter. If he denied Christ, what does that say about his eternal soul at that point?

 

[sandusky]

NotWorthy:

My point was not about Judas. I don’t have an opinion on him. My point was Peter. If he denied Christ, what does that say about his eternal soul at that point?

It says to you that Peter lost his salvation; please support that.