Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[adrift]

It irks me when I hear people on tv and read things on the Internet trying to lay all the blame on Zimmerman, saying “if he’d just stayed in his car this never would’ve happened,” Ugh, if Trayvon had never gotten himself in so much trouble he wouldn’t have been in Sanford on suspension and this tragedy never would’ve happened.
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Why is it you don’t hear “If Trayvon had not hit Zimmerman, nothing would have happened”?

It is a tragedy with fault to both Zimmerman and Trayvon. I don’t know what really happened but I do know that those who heard the evidence ruled it was self-defense.

 

[MaryT777]

Obama: ‘Honor’ Trayvon Martin by preventing future tragedies

I think a written statement is the most we can expect.

I think it’s a good plan for Obama to keep his comments in written form and to for once it seems to me, in my opinion, refrain from talking.

 

[MaryT777]

Why is it you don’t hear “If Trayvon had not hit Zimmerman, nothing would have happened”?

It is a tragedy with fault to both Zimmerman and Trayvon. I don’t know what really happened but I do know that those who heard the evidence ruled it was self-defense.

 

[Dawnia]

I think it’s a good plan for Obama to keep his comments in written form and to for once it seems to me, in my opinion, refrain from talking.

Completely agree! The less he talks, the less shoes he will go through.

 

[adrift]

In fairness, “Hispanic” isn’t a race. It’s not even an ethnicity. It’s an arbitrary word invented (or at least popularized) in the 70s to refer loosely to a language group (people from natively Spanish-speaking countries), to assign a common identity to groups of vastly dissimilar peoples in order to use them as a political blunt object with which to bludgeon opponents of the leftist establishment.

Yep! I would have put it the late 60’s.

 

[MaryT777]

And looking in windows because ???

Who said he was looking in windows? People in the houses or Zimmerman? I don’t find Zimmerman credible beginning with the initial bond hearing where he was not considered by the judge truthful in the amount of money he had…

to the “I am not aware of the self defense laws” when he Aced the class that discussed it etc.

It’s a moot point and I’m sure you disagree.

My best guess is he was trying to stay out of the light or the rain and maybe glanced in a window or two but I was not there so I realize it’s pure speculation as to
1: If he did indeed look into windows
2: and why he did so if he did.

.

 

[MaryT777]

Completely agree! The less he talks, the less shoes he will go through.

(Especially if my hard earned tax payer money pays for those shoes… )

 

[Carlan]

The witnesses and evidence show that Martin was the one who initiated the physical attack. Zimmerman wasn’t breaking any law by following Martin.

But once Zimmerman was physically attacked by someone who…

That is what he claimed.
No he wasn’t, the boy was taller than he and 158lbs.Zimmerman 200 and fit he was trained by professionals, marshal arts for a year.

Why didn’t the man simply say to Tray when he was asked why he was following him, that he was part of the “neighborhood watch” checking things out,and then ask if he was lost or needed help. No telling what the grown man said to Trayvon to provoke a scuffle which ended up with the boy being shot to death. My heart goes out to his parents and loved ones.

I hate guns. Peace, Carlan

 

[BroomWagon]

One of the things that doesn’t make sense is how this has been framed in terms of race.

According to the ones who insist that this is racism:

Obama - Black father/White mother = Black

Zimmerman - White father/Hispanic mother = White

Can someone please explain this?

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Actually, Zimmerman’s great grandfather was probably Black.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143303/Is-photo-proves-George-Zimmermans-great-grandfather-black.html

 

[adrift]

What is appropriate behavior if you’re being followed?

Call the police. Go to the nearest lighted place that has people. I have been followed and the last thing you do is confront the person who is following you.

 

[Dawnia]

That is what he calmed.
No he wasn’t, the boy was taller than he and 158lbs.Zimmerman 200 and fit he was trained by professionals, marshal arts for a year.

Why didn’t the man simply say to Tray when he was asked why he was following him, that he was part of the “neighborhood watch” checking things out,and then ask if he was lost or needed help. No telling what the grown man said to Trayvon to provoke a scuffle which ended up with the boy being shot to death. My heart goes out to his parents and loved ones.

I hate guns. Peace, Carlan

Didn’t listen to the trial huh? The martial arts instructor testified that Zimmerman was not in shape or trained in martial arts at all.

Maybe he didn’t get the chance before TM attacked him. The only thing that speech should provoke is more speech…not assault.

 

[BroomWagon]

That is what he calmed.
No he wasn’t, the boy was taller than he and 58lbs.Zimmerman 200 and fit he was trained by professionals, marshal arts for a year.

Why didn’t the man simply say to Tray when he was asked why he was following him, that he was part of the “neighborhood watch” checking things out,and then ask if he was lost or needed help. No telling what the grown man said to Trayvon to provoke a scuffle which ended up with the boy being shot to death. My heart goes out to his parents and loved ones.

I hate guns. Peace, Carlan

I realize you feel passionate about this but again, I don’t think Trayvon asked Zimmerman why he was following him. There is no record of this. Again, Zimmerman relays Trayvon confronted Zimmerman and said “Do you have a problem?”, Zimmerman responds He does not have a problem whereas Trayvon says “You do now” and socks him.

But today, the Sanford police did make it clear that what George Zimmerman told them was that he was actually getting back into his SUV when he said Trayvon Martin came around the left-hand side of him and he says that Trayvon Martin said, do you have a problem? And he said no, and then Trayvon said something like well, you do now. Then George Zimmerman told the cops that he got punched in the nose. He hit the ground, and that’s when Trayvon Martin jumped on top of him and slammed his head into the sidewalk and that’s when he began to yell for help. I mean, that’s what Sanford police tell us that George Zimmerman told them.

Read more: foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2012/03/27/witness-reportedly-saw-trayvon-martin-beating-george-zimmerman-shooting#ixzz2Z4QaphAy

We can reject Zimmerman’s word here, what we can’t do is invent our own story as fact.

 

[Tucker_R]

Two can play that… maybe he was looking for houses to break into. They did find STOLEN jewelry under his bed.

maybe he knew he was being followed and was discerning what to do; get out of the light where he could be seen, etc.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Who said he was looking in windows? People in the houses or Zimmerman? I don’t find Zimmerman credible beginning with the initial bond hearing where he was not considered by the judge truthful in the amount of money he had…

to the “I am not aware of the self defense laws” when he Aced the class that discussed it etc.

It’s a moot point and I’m sure you disagree.

My best guess is he was trying to stay out of the light or the rain and maybe glanced in a window or two but I was not there so I realize it’s pure speculation as to
1: If he did indeed look into windows
2: and why he did so if he did.

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All this is besides the point. Whether you believe him or not there is no reason to believe he acted in anything but good faith when he reported a suspicious person. We have no good reason to distrust his statement that he got out of his vehicle to verify the address to give to the police, and a witness for the prosecution stated that the address plaques on that street are difficult to read due to the shrubs planted near them. We know that Treyvon was witnessed on top of Mr. Zimmerman attacking him in an MMA “Ground-n-pound” style. We know that Mr. Zimmerman was heard crying out loudly for help, and we know that at some point during this attack Mr. Zimmerman drew his weapon and fatally shot Treyvon Martin. We know that police described him as being relieved when they falsely claimed to have the whole incident on video, and we know Treyvon to have a history of violence, theft, drug use, and possibly drug dealing. It seems to my mind to be laughable to suggest that this was anything other than self defense.

 

[Tucker_R]

tm attacked first… sorry he brought this on himself.

^ this.

Besides, “looking in people’s windows” is not an excuse to be shot, especially not by a man specifically told by a dispatcher to not get anywhere near the kid.

 

[Dawnia]

Call the police. Go to the nearest lighted place that has people. I have been followed and the last thing you do is confront the person who is following you.

 

[MaryT777]

Call the police. Go to the nearest lighted place that has people. I have been followed and the last thing you do is confront the person who is following you.

What if there are no people out at night in the dark and in the rain? Then what?
I agree he should have never gone near Zimmerman, that cost him his life.

I imagine it was not that well lit if Zimmerman had to according to him get out of his car to find an address in a subdivision with 3 streets.

 

[sweetcharity]

**QUESTION: **Is it an undisputed fact or Internet gossip, that TM threw the first punch?

 

[BroomWagon]

maybe he knew he was being followed and was discerning what to do; get out of the light where he could be seen, etc.

I take it it was raining, perhaps fairly heavily. Then later on we heard about the wet grass and all that.

Trayvon could have been getting near houses to stay out of the rain.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

What if there are no people out at night in the dark and in the rain? Then what?
I agree he should have never gone near Zimmerman, that cost him his life.

I imagine it was not that well lit if Zimmerman had to according to him get out of his car to find an address in a subdivision with 3 streets.

I answered you earlier in post #358.

It depends on the circumstances. I might attempt to shake the tail; I might approach the follower to talk to him if I don’t think there is risk of violence, or i might call the police to report a suspicious person, or i may do a combination of any of these, but I absolutely would not violently ambush my pursuer.