Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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sweetcharity said:
QUESTION: Is it an undisputed fact or Internet gossip, that TM threw the first punch?
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Neither.

It’s only George Zimmerman’s testimony, not court sworn testimony but testimony in a police interview and I guess to Hannity…
 
MaryT777 said:
maybe he knew he was being followed and was discerning what to do; get out of the light where he could be seen, etc.
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The behavior is what alerted Zimmerman to suspect him; iow, Martin was doing all that when he thought he was not being observed.
 
BroomWagon said:
I take it it was raining, perhaps fairly heavily. Then later on we heard about the wet grass and all that.

Trayvon could have been getting near houses to stay out of the rain.
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Who would do that? Go up to someone’s house to get out of the rain?
 
SMGS127 said:
^ this.

Besides, “looking in people’s windows” is not an excuse to be shot, especially not by a man specifically told by a dispatcher to not get anywhere near the kid.
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Uhh, he wasn’t shot for looking in windows. He was shot in self-defense after he assaulted Zimmerman and repeatedly slammed his head into the concrete. You get that you can die from having your head repeatedly slammed into the concrete, right?

We keep hearing lines like this over and over and over again that have no correlation to what actually happened that night. Are you guys lying to score points, or just mouthing off about something you don’t know anything about?
sweetcharity said:
QUESTION: Is it an undisputed fact or Internet gossip, that TM threw the first punch?
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I dunno what qualifies as “undisputed fact” for you since the only person alive who witnessed exactly what happened at that second is George Zimmerman, whose testimony approximately 1/6th of the people here don’t/won’t trust.

But if Zimmerman had thrown the first punch we might expect Martin to have had some kind of injury, somewhere, anywhere on his body, beside the bullet wound. He didn’t. In fact all the physical injuries as a result of the fight were on Zimmerman – busted nose, wounds on the back of the head, etc. That all sees to support Zimmerman’s testimony that he was suckerpunched and didn’t have a chance.
BroomWagon said:
I take it it was raining, perhaps fairly heavily. Then later on we heard about the wet grass and all that.

Trayvon could have been getting near houses to stay out of the rain.
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Most likely he was just trying to find his father’s house. Supposedly he wasn’t too familiar with the subdivision, it was dark, and there was shrubbery in front of all the houses.

But that doesn’t matter as much as Zimmerman’s evaluation of what was happening. When you see a strange person at night walking around a gated community recently suffering from a string of burglaries, cutting through lawns, scoping out houses, dressed in dark clothes that conceal the face, etc., that’s all good reason to think someone might be up to no good. Any person can reach that conclusion in good faith.
 
Inego_de_Loyola said:
All this is besides the point. Whether you believe him or not there is no reason to believe he acted in anything but good faith when he reported a suspicious person. We have no good reason to distrust his statement that he got out of his vehicle to verify the address to give to the police, and a witness for the prosecution stated that the address plaques on that street are difficult to read due to the shrubs planted near them. We know that Treyvon was witnessed on top of Mr. Zimmerman attacking him in an MMA “Ground-n-pound” style. We know that Mr. Zimmerman was heard crying out loudly for help, and we know that at some point during this attack Mr. Zimmerman drew his weapon and fatally shot Treyvon Martin. We know that police described him as being relieved when they falsely claimed to have the whole incident on video, and we know Treyvon to have a history of violence, theft, drug use, and possibly drug dealing. It seems to my mind to be laughable to suggest that this was anything other than self defense.
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According to Nancy Grace there arent any shrubs in the area. Lol.
 
Carlan said:
That is what he claimed.
No he wasn’t, the boy was taller than he and 158lbs.Zimmerman 200 and fit he was trained by professionals, marshal arts for a year.

Why didn’t the man simply say to Tray when he was asked why he was following him, that he was part of the “neighborhood watch” checking things out,and then ask if he was lost or needed help. No telling what the grown man said to Trayvon to provoke a scuffle which ended up with the boy being shot to death. My heart goes out to his parents and loved ones.

I hate guns. Peace, Carlan
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Carlan your last statement says it all. “I hate guns.” It seems based on 1000 posts on the previous threads that those who keep speculating, second guessing and making up scenarios to put the blame on GZ are simply against anyone bearing arms and thus the fact that GZ had a gun made him the cause of the problem.

Please all of you speculators, story tellers and myth makers. Take the gun out of the equation. What if Martin were pounding GZ on the ground and GZ was strong enough to reach up and strangle Martin? Or land a roundhouse punch that killed him? It’s entirely possible that one can die from a blow to the head if delivered in the right place with enough intensity.

Martin would have been just as dead but the lack of a gun would magically turn this into self defense for those against guns.

Try it and be honest about your feelings. I think this is all about race for the race baiters and all about guns for the gun haters. For those who looked at the evidence, listened to the testimony, and thought this through, there was CLEARLY reasonable doubt at worst and a pretty strong case for self defense at best.

I listened to Alan Dershowitz who is hardly a right wing gun toting 2nd Amendment apologist. He said the real crime was that female Florida prosecutor who has a reputation for over charging, for bringing politics into the cases and for retaliating against anyone from Dershowitz to her own staff if her authority is questioned. Dershowitz said that at the very least, this case should have gone to a Grand Jury to demonstrate that there was probable cause to bring the charges instead of what appeared to be favor currying and politics on her part.

This woman was ELECTED to office which makes me wonder against whom she ran. I recall when the case was initially brought, listening to her I couldn’t believe she even made it through law school. She sounded more like a politician trying to gin up her base than an unbiased jurist who wanted justice to prevail. Dershowitz said GZ has a great case for malicious prosecution.

Lisa
 
MaryT777 said:
What if there are no people out at night in the dark and in the rain? Then what?
I agree he should have never gone near Zimmerman, that cost him his life.

I imagine it was not that well lit if Zimmerman had to according to him get out of his car to find an address in a subdivision with 3 streets.
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I understand he had a cell phone. He should have called the police. We can do all the shouldas but unfortunately he didn’t. What he did do was start to attack. He was young and stupid. It should not (there that word is again) have cost his life but then it shouldn’t of cost Zemmerman’s his either. We do not know how it would have ended if Zimmerman had not shot him. We do not know for certain if he would have killed Zimmerman. Zimmerman did not know that either. His actions were justifiable concerning the circumstances that existed. Zimmerman was foolish for exiting his car may be true but it was no excuse for him to be attacked. When it comes down to the person most at fault, it would be the person who landed the first blow.
 
Dawnia said:
Didn’t listen to the trial huh? The martial arts instructor testified that Zimmerman was not in shape or trained in martial arts at all.

Maybe he didn’t get the chance before TM attacked him. The only thing that speech should provoke is more speech…not assault.
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Yes…Adam (can’t recall last name) owner of the MMA gym said he Z didn’t know how to effectively punch and was “soft” (physically). He was like a 1 on a 1-10 scale for fighting skills.

In my opinion maybe why he took his gun with on such watch missions.
 
BroomWagon said:
Who would do that? Probably a lot of people might go up to where there is shelter from rain if it were pouring.
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I’m sorry, i have been out walking when it started to rain, and it never would have occurred to me to walk across someone’s yard and stand under part of their house. And I have arrived home dripping wet.

Do you know how much it was raining that night? For some reason, I had the impression it was drizzly or light rain, but I forget where I got that impression.
 
St_Francis said:
I’m sorry, i have been out walking when it started to rain, and it never would have occurred to me to walk across someone’s yard and stand under part of their house. And I have arrived home dripping wet.

Do you know how much it was raining that night? For some reason, I had the impression it was drizzly or light rain, but I forget where I got that impression.
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So you are saying you’ve walked out in the rain and have never walked to where you would be rained on less?
 
BroomWagon said:
So you are saying you’ve walked out in the rain and have never walked to where you would be rained on less?
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Sure I have. Like if I’m passing a gas station and it starts to pour, I might go there. I might hang out in a bus stop.

But it never would even occur to me to go and stand under someone’s *house *like that. No.
 
adrift said:
I understand he had a cell phone. He should have called the police. We can do all the shouldas but unfortunately he didn’t. What he did do was start to attack. He was young and stupid. It should not (there that word is again) have cost his life but then it shouldn’t of cost Zemmerman’s his either. We do not know how it would have ended if Zimmerman had not shot him. We do not know for certain if he would have killed Zimmerman. Zimmerman did not know that either. His actions were justifiable concerning the circumstances that existed. Zimmerman was foolish for exiting his car may be true but it was no excuse for him to be attacked. When it comes down to the person most at fault, it would be the person who landed the first blow.
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Someone walked their dog close to this same time as well. That was one of the original witnesses, a young boy, but I don’t think we saw this witness in the trial.
 
MaryT777 said:
Yes…Adam (can’t recall last name) owner of the MMA gym said he Z didn’t know how to effectively punch and was “soft” (physically). He was like a 1 on a 1-10 scale for fighting skills.

In my opinion maybe why he took his gun with on such watch missions.
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He wasn’t on a “watch mission;” he was on his way to the store.
 
MaryT777 said:
Yes…Adam (can’t recall last name) owner of the MMA gym said he Z didn’t know how to effectively punch and was “soft” (physically). He was like a 1 on a 1-10 scale for fighting skills.

In my opinion maybe why he took his gun with on such watch missions.
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Could be. 🤷 He’s still 3 points higher on the scale than me. 😛
 
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