Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

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meltzerboy said:
What does that mean: “likely” involved? Zimmerman was charged with domestic violence. Does the history of either of them have any legal bearing on the case?
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He was not *charged *with domestic abuse; he was *accused *of DA by his ex-fiancee.

Note that a woman obtained a restraining order against David Letterman. She said “Letterman used code words, gestures and “eye expressions” to convey his desires for her.” She was in Santa Fe NM.

Really, people take out restraining orders all the time, for numerous reasons other than need.
 
meltzerboy said:
Was there evidence that proved Martin was casing the houses?
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Nope.

He had been caught with stolen goods. But since he was black, the school didn’t want to report it.
LisaA said:
My stepson is almost 16. Close to the age of Trayvon Martin. I assure you he doesn’t wander around at night, unsupervised, no one knowing what he’s doing or where he’s going. This was a kid in trouble and unfortunately his parents were unable to deal with it. Multiply Martin and Jeantel but hundreds of thousands of other such kids…all colors fwiw…and you have a very sad future for a lot of America’s youth.

Lisa
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My son is 17. He also doesn’t wander around at night, unsupervised. I know where he is and where he is going.

At this point? I feel sorry for Jeantel. I can’t imagine that she will ever be able to support herself. She is 19, going to be 20 in February; and she seems to be functionally illiterate.
 
Expecting the news to soon read - PETA files suit over beating of dead horse. 😛

Here is something “new” to consider.

[Constitution Check: Has the self-defense idea of justifiable killing gone too far?](Constitution Check: Has the self-defense idea of justifiable killing gone too far?)
The Supreme Court, however, made it absolutely clear in a decision in 1975 (in the case of Mullaney v. Wilbur) that it was the prosecution’s job to prove that the killing was not justified – in other words, once a defense lawyer raised a claim of self-defense, prosecutors had to disprove it.
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It is now clear, in the wake of remarks by one of the jurors, that the jury interpreted the judge’s instructions as imposing on them a strong duty to consider self-defense, if not literally to apply the concept of “stand your ground,” and to hold the prosecutors to the task of disproving self-defense.
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maryjk said:
At this point? I feel sorry for Jeantel. I can’t imagine that she will ever be able to support herself. She is 19, going to be 20 in February; and she seems to be functionally illiterate.
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That was my observation as well after watching the testimony. Not only was she struggling to answer relatively simple questions but her attitude was childish, the eye rolling the harumphing at the inconvenience. You imagine how well that attitude would go over at the workplace.

After the case I was listening to Bill Bennett’s show. As former drug czar and Secretary of Education, he and his wife Elayne are very committed to these issues. He said that what is found in these communities is a complete lack of long term goals or future dreams. When a group of young people are asked what they want to do in the future, do they want to go to college, get married…the responses are often little more than blank stares. One of his assistants volunteered in a program for inner city youth and said the children have no “heroes” other than celebrities, music stars or the drug dealer on the corner.

I suspect if you’d asked Trayvon Martin his hopes for the future, it wouldn’t have extended to beyond the next weekend’s partying. It’s really sad and all the attention on this case means that those who have influence in these troubled areas are not spending time, talent or treasure on the real issues.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
I suspect if you’d asked Trayvon Martin his hopes for the future, it wouldn’t have extended to beyond the next weekend’s partying. It’s really sad and all the attention on this case means that those who have influence in these troubled areas are not spending time, talent or treasure on the real issues.

Lisa
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You must have not gotten the memo that TM was college bound with a full scholarship and was going to be a doctor. No confirmation as to the truth of that information, but that’s what is being spread around at the moment to support how angelic TM was and how evil GZ is. 🤷
 
Some things that can’t be disputed:

This is GZ’s 3rd brush with the law due to a violent altercation, and all 3 times he insisted the other party was aggressor-regardless of which is true, you gotta admit the guy has a penchant for getting into altercations.(not mentioning the anecedotal stories of when he was a bouncer at private house parties which admittedly may or may not be true)

It was not “late at night” either. All of the events took place prior to 7:15 pm, with the police arriving on the scene at 7:17-so not an unreasonable time for a 17 year old to be walking down to the store, which presumably his father knew about (we don’t know) as during which they were watching the NBA all star line up.
 
Vanny said:
Some things that can’t be disputed:

This is GZ’s 3rd brush with the law due to a violent altercation, and all 3 times he insisted the other party was aggressor-regardless of which is true, you gotta admit the guy has a penchant for getting into altercations.(not mentioning the anecedotal stories of when he was a bouncer at private house parties which admittedly may or may not be true)

It was not “late at night” either. All of the events took place prior to 7:15 pm, with the police arriving on the scene at 7:17-so not an unreasonable time for a 17 year old to be walking down to the store, which presumably his father knew about (we don’t know) as during which they were watching the NBA all star line up.
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It would help if you’d not make up something along the way. Martin was not “walking down to the store…” He had BEEN to the store. In fact you can actually see the video of Martin buying the now infamous Skittles and Watermelon Tea. The issue was that he was wandering around, seemingly aimlessly, not on the sidewalk but on a paved path between homes. He appeared to be hanging out under the eves of the homes (understandable due to the rain) and “looking around” which drew Zimmerman’s suspicions.

The point was not the time of night although it was dark, it was rainy and Martin seemed to be exhibiting suspicious behavior. Honestly if it were dark and someone were walking around under the eves of my home, it would scare me too. And we don’t have any sort of crime in our (non gated) community.

We have no clue what his father knew or didn’t know about his whereabouts, but just the lack of sense of purpose seemed odd. As I said when my stepson goes to the store, I don’t expect him to be wandering around between homes on his return trip.

BTW did you take in the recent incident where George Zimmerman helped rescue a family after their car overturned? Such a bad guy…

Lisa
 
Dawnia said:
You must have not gotten the memo that TM was college bound with a full scholarship and was going to be a doctor. No confirmation as to the truth of that information, but that’s what is being spread around at the moment to support how angelic TM was and how evil GZ is. 🤷
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Yep, and notice how they only use the “cute kid” photos on the posters and news stories? It’s truly scary how little today’s reporters are concerned about journalism This goes for everything from alphabet soup channels to the cable news. I suspect if they were to use the snarling with the gold teeth flipping the bird photo which was more contemporaneous with the date of Martin’s death, they would have been accused of spinning

LIsa
 
Vanny said:
Some things that can’t be disputed:

This is GZ’s 3rd brush with the law due to a violent altercation, and all 3 times he insisted the other party was aggressor-regardless of which is true, you gotta admit the guy has a penchant for getting into altercations.(not mentioning the anecedotal stories of when he was a bouncer at private house parties which admittedly may or may not be true)

It was not “late at night” either. All of the events took place prior to 7:15 pm, with the police arriving on the scene at 7:17-so not an unreasonable time for a 17 year old to be walking down to the store, which presumably his father knew about (we don’t know) as during which they were watching the NBA all star line up.
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Things get dicey when we start looking at the past of either GZ or TM. As I stated before, neither of their past histories has any legal bearing on the case.
 
meltzerboy said:
Of course, a verdict of “not guilty” does not mean “innocent.” What it means is “not proven guilty.”
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If you’re innocent until proven guilty, then by default, you’d still be innocent if you weren’t found guilty. 🤷

But, that doesn’t mean you didn’t do what you were charged with. You’re just not legally guilty of the crime.

In this case, GZ shot TM. There is no dispute there. Even with that, he’s legally innocent of murder.
 
Dawnia said:
If you’re innocent until proven guilty, then by default, you’d still be innocent if you weren’t found guilty. 🤷

But, that doesn’t mean you didn’t do what you were charged with. You’re just not legally guilty of the crime.

In this case, GZ shot TM. There is no dispute there. Even with that, he’s legally innocent of murder.
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I’m not sure about your default reasoning, but I’ll let the legal experts on board handle it.
 
LisaA said:
It would help if you’d not make up something along the way. Martin was not “walking down to the store…” He had BEEN to the store. In fact you can actually see the video of Martin buying the now infamous Skittles and Watermelon Tea. The issue was that he was wandering around, seemingly aimlessly, not on the sidewalk but on a paved path between homes. He appeared to be hanging out under the eves of the homes (understandable due to the rain) and “looking around” which drew Zimmerman’s suspicions.
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Not only had he BEEN at the store, he had left the store by 6:22. It then took Martin until 7:05, to reach a place that should have taken him 10 - 15 minutes to get to. Hmmm… What was he doing? Certainly not walking “home.” If he had been walking “home” he would have been there before Zimmerman ever saw him.
 
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