Open Thread on Zimmerman Verdict

[mtbender]

How do you know what my expectation is? My only expectation is to list facts. You state in shorter terms “your expectation has no bearing whatsoever”. Well, excuse me, this is a forum where matters and issues are discussed, anyone can make that kind of general statement about anyone and anyone’s statement. Good luck if your only contributions to discussions is “your expectations have no bearing”

Nothing wrong with pointing out the facts and details of this case. Sorry that seems to cause offense.

Sorry - didn’t realize you only intended to reiterating the facts. My mistake, I thought we were beyond that point in the discussion. I guess I got confused when you when you started with examples… I assumed you were trying to make a point since the facts have already been presented numerous times and what was presented was a little one sided.

With that said, nice selective quote leaving out the rest of my statements which places that into context of discussing the street names - a fact that you mentioned twice in you post. The tone of your post implies it was a negative thing - which can logically lead to the assumption of expectations. If someone implies not knowing something is somehow wrong, it is not a large leap to infer they expected it to be know. If you were interested in discussion you would have addressed it or corrected my assumptions.

With that said, if you had no further point than I will move on to more meaningful discussion. Presenting facts Doesn’t offend me one bit, but doesn’t add much value either when they have already been stated - unless there some new light to shed or point to be made.

 

[BroomWagon]

Sorry - didn’t realize you only intended to reiterating the facts. My mistake, I thought we were beyond that point in the discussion. I guess I got confused when you when you started with examples… I assumed you were trying to make a point since the facts have already been presented numerous times and what was presented was a little one sided .

Let’s stop right here, how many times have I mentioned George Zimmerman had ADHD according to himself or the defense?? This was the first time in this thread, so in other words, the statements you seem to make and the conclusions you seem to make appear to not be accurate to begin with.

With that said, nice selective quote leaving out the rest of my statements which places that into context of discussing the street names - a fact that you mentioned twice in you post. The tone of your post implies it was a negative thing - which can logically lead to the assumption of expectations. If someone implies not knowing something is somehow wrong, it is not a large leap to infer they expected it to be know. If you were interested in discussion you would have addressed it or corrected my assumptions.

You have the right, not knowing the name of the 3 streets in an apartment complex where one has lived for some time along with being a neigbhorhood watch officer does seem to be out of the ordinary.

With that said,** if you had no further point than I will move on to more meaningful discussion**. Presenting facts Doesn’t offend me one bit, but doesn’t add much value either when they have already been stated - unless there some new light to shed or point to be made.

Fine with me.

 

[SwizzleStick]

"Family rescued by Zimmerman fears link to ‘Good Samaritan’: lawyer

MIAMI (Reuters) - The family rescued from a car accident by George Zimmerman, days after he was cleared of wrongdoing in the fatal shooting of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, canceled plans to thank him publicly because they fear being linked to someone reviled by many Americans, Zimmerman’s lawyer said on Wednesday."…

Blue excerpt from source link to entire article:
news.yahoo.com/family-rescued-zimmerman-fears-good-samaritan-lawyer-004939569.html

 

[SwizzleStick]

"Couple cancels news conference about Zimmerman

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — An attorney for George Zimmerman brushed aside suggestions Wednesday that his client’s actions in helping save a family from a car wreck were somehow staged.

Mark O’Mara told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer that multiple government agencies and witnesses have backed up the account in which Zimmerman, who was recently acquitted of charges in the death of teenager Trayvon Martin, assisted the family after their SUV flipped over on a Florida highway.

“The same people who refuse to accept the jury’s verdict, just want to be angry, just want to hate George Zimmerman, are still going to,” O’Mara said…

Blue excerpt from source link here: news.yahoo.com/couple-cancels-news-conference-zimmerman-161630094.html

 

[SwizzleStick]

"Zimmerman attorney says crash family doesn’t want to go public

A Florida family helped by George Zimmerman after a car accident called a press conference on Wednesday to talk about it — and then abruptly canceled because they feared “blowback,” according to Zimmerman’s lawyer."…

Blue excerpt from source link: usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/24/19660353-zimmerman-attorney-says-crash-family-doesnt-want-to-go-public?lite

 

[Dawnia]

Said what I meant, so did Zimmerman’s attorney’s in their closing arguments, 4 minutes, look it up.

Alrighty then, you just run with it to your little heart’s content. Rehash it, make it up, whatever, it won’t change anything. Martin will still be dead and Zimmerman will still be acquitted and unable to be retried for murder.

 

[mtbender]

Let’s stop right here, how many times have I mentioned George Zimmerman had ADHD according to himself or the defense?? This was the first time in this thread, so in other words, the statements you seem to make and the conclusions you seem to make appear to not be accurate to begin with.

You have the right, not knowing the name of the 3 streets in an apartment complex where one has lived for some time along with being a neigbhorhood watch officer does seem to be out of the ordinary.

Fine with me.

Didn’t know we were discussing ADHD, not sure I mentioned that aside from me not having it… I was discussing the street names - which has been discussed here before. Never said by you, but it is a fact that has already been presented and has not been debated as fact. So with that in mind, what is incorrect in my statement?

So in the end, my thought process wasn’t far off… You concede that him not knowing the streets is a negative, so the assumption would be the opposite is the expectation would it not?

I am sure you would love me to move on, but you insistence that I was somehow violating forum rules or directing unflattering comments towards others begs me to stay. Stating that GZ failure to meet a third parties assumed expectations has no bearing can hardly be seen as an unflattering comment. If I am wrong, correct the assumption or refute the logic. If we can’t make assumptions based on the information in front of us than there wouldn’t be much debate now would there? If you are offended because I stated that your (assumed) expectation has no bearing to the case I apologize, but it doesn’t make it any more relevant.

With that said, feel free to start a more meaningful discussion on the topic…

 

[BroomWagon]

Alrighty then, you just run with it to your little heart’s content. Rehash it, make it up, whatever, it won’t change anything. Martin will still be dead and Zimmerman will still be acquitted and unable to be retried for murder.

What does your comment have to do with?

Are you against people discussing this issue?? Then politely ask the moderator to close the thread not me. Also, kindly address the discussion at hand, not the individual poster.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=508814

By the way, your words “make it up” seems to be innuendo.

Those four minutes of eerie silence in the court were a powerful illustration–and experience–of what reasonable doubt means in the defense’s theory of the case.

If prosecutors could not explain what Trayvon Martin was doing for four minutes instead of walking home–or running, as state witness Rachel Jeantel testified–how could they claim that Zimmerman had set out to kill Martin? If he felt threatened, why didn’t he leave? And wasn’t it more likely that Martin had lain in wait for Zimmerman and started a confrontation?

O’Mara’s argument continued, providing jurors with an account of events from start to finish–which, oddly, the prosecution had failed to do in its closing argument, preferring to focus on Zimmerman’s credibility.

breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/12/Zimmerman-Trial-The-Sound-of-Silence

You are welcome for my looking the article up so you can know the facts of this case and furthermore, I accept your apology in advance for seeming innuendo that someone is making up things and running with their heart’s content. I did not realize this forum was for only one side of the argument.

 

[BroomWagon]

"Zimmerman attorney says crash family doesn’t want to go public

A Florida family helped by George Zimmerman after a car accident called a press conference on Wednesday to talk about it — and then abruptly canceled because they feared “blowback,” according to Zimmerman’s lawyer."…

Blue excerpt from source link: usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/24/19660353-zimmerman-attorney-says-crash-family-doesnt-want-to-go-public?lite

Thank you for posting these inspite of their being a whole thread on Zimmerman rescuing these 4 persons. It is factual and I don’t find anything negative with presenting facts or news stories that are related.

 

[MaryT777]

For some to say that GZ was stalking is ridiculous. Perhaps some people here have a problem with neighbourhood watch. Considering that police aren’t legally required to protect people or homes, GZ might have represented the best chance to catch the burglar(s). When you are neighbourhood watch, in the neighbourhood you are assigned to watch, even if off duty, then you aren’t stalking a person who actually doesn’t live there but is a visitor.

Neighborhood watch is great if citizens know when to draw the line between the responsibilities of Neighborhood Watch and those of the police.

GZ didn’t catch any burglars. He killed an innocent young man who was not a "suspect’
and according to the police officer during the testimony doing absolutely NOTHING wrong.

I realize not everyone had the opportunity to read the entire transcript of the trial as I have.
That I disagree does not mean I have not watched it. I watched quite a bit of the actual trial as well.

This has taught everyone a valuable lesson. Now if we see Zimmerman we know he could be carrying a concealed weapon and act accordingly.

Amazing for a man who assaulted a police officer and his girlfriend.
Hopefully he’s learned he is not a police officer, he was rejected as one and is not to act
as one.

 

[MaryT777]

Didn’t know we were discussing ADHD, not sure I mentioned that aside from me not having it… I was discussing the street names - which has been discussed here before. Never said by you, but it is a fact that has already been presented and has not been debated as fact. So with that in mind, what is incorrect in my statement?

So in the end, my thought process wasn’t far off… You concede that him not knowing the streets is a negative, so the assumption would be the opposite is the expectation would it not?

I am sure you would love me to move on, but you insistence that I was somehow violating forum rules or directing unflattering comments towards others begs me to stay. Stating that GZ failure to meet a third parties assumed expectations has no bearing can hardly be seen as an unflattering comment. If I am wrong, correct the assumption or refute the logic. If we can’t make assumptions based on the information in front of us than there wouldn’t be much debate now would there? If you are offended because I stated that your (assumed) expectation has no bearing to the case I apologize, but it doesn’t make it any more relevant.

With that said, feel free to start a more meaningful discussion on the topic…

We’re having a meaningful discussion on the topic. That a poster does not agree with you does not negate that fact.

Zimmerman told the police he has a memory problem. Yes indeed if once cannot recall one of three street names I would greatly agree with that.

 

[mtbender]

Neighborhood watch is great if citizens know when to draw the line between the responsibilities of Neighborhood Watch and those of the police.

GZ didn’t catch any burglars. He killed an innocent young man who was not a "suspect’
and according to the police officer during the testimony doing absolutely NOTHING wrong.

I realize not everyone had the opportunity to read the entire transcript of the trial as I have.
That I disagree does not mean I have not watched it. I watched quite a bit of the actual trial as well.

This has taught everyone a valuable lesson. Now if we see Zimmerman we know he could be carrying a concealed weapon and act accordingly.

Amazing for a man who assaulted a police officer and his girlfriend.
Hopefully he’s learned he is not a police officer, he was rejected as one and is not to act
as one.

And hopefully we all learned that we still have a right to self defense and justice can prevail over politics.

 

[mtbender]

We’re having a meaningful discussion on the topic. That a poster does not agree with you does not negate that fact.

Zimmerman told the police he has a memory problem. Yes indeed if once cannot recall one of three street names I would greatly agree with that.

I never debated the fact. I questioned the relevance and stated that personal expectations of what he should know have no bearing on that…

 

[lcburgundy]

GZ didn’t catch any burglars. He killed an innocent young man who was not a "suspect’
and according to the police officer during the testimony doing absolutely NOTHING wrong.

I realize not everyone had the opportunity to read the entire transcript of the trial as I have.
That I disagree does not mean I have not watched it. I watched quite a bit of the actual trial as well.

You say that, but slugging someone in the nose, knocking them down, and slamming their head against the ground constitutes the strangest definition of innocence I have ever seen. I think your trial transcript is missing a few pages. You know, the part involving the actual encounter between the two.

This has taught everyone a valuable lesson. Now if we see Zimmerman we know he could be carrying a concealed weapon and act accordingly.

I agree that if TM had treated GZ with the expectation that he was armed, we would not be here today.

Amazing for a man who assaulted a police officer and his girlfriend.
Hopefully he’s learned he is not a police officer, he was rejected as one and is not to act
as one.

Sigh. More gossip and speculation.

I think GZ is probably more aware of most people now just how he is solely responsible for his personal safety at this point and how many people out there would be happy to dish out a little mob justice.

 

[MaryT777]

And hopefully we all learned that we still have a right to self defense and justice can prevail over politics.

Of course. It was noted from the beginning by most defense attorney experts that GZ would be acquitted. Jose Baez said a first year law student could win the case and it was the case for the defense to lose. Which they did not.

Of course, with TM dead we have only Zimmerman’s account who is not remotely credible.
Can’t recall street names, has a self admitted bad memory, forgot apparently he took a class where self defense laws were discussed (He claimed he knew nothing of such laws) How much money he had for bail etc etc.

Perfect Justice is with God. TM is not here to give his account.

That said we have free speech.

 

[lcburgundy]

Of course. It was noted from the beginning by most defense attorney experts that GZ would be acquitted. Jose Baez said a first year law student could win the case and it was the case for the defense to lose. Which they did not.

Of course, with TM dead we have only Zimmerman’s account who is not remotely credible.

There was plenty of forensic evidence. All or nearly all of which resolved in GZ’s favor and supported his account, of course, (and the police actually said as much) but when you don’t have the facts or the law on your side, you pound the table.

 

[MaryT777]

You say that, but slugging someone in the nose, knocking them down, and slamming their head against the ground constitutes the strangest definition of innocence I have ever seen. I think your trial transcript is missing a few pages. You know, the part involving the actual encounter between the two.

I agree that if TM had treated GZ with the expectation that he was armed, we would not be here today.

Sigh. More gossip and speculation.

I think GZ is probably more aware of most people now just how he is solely responsible for his personal safety at this point and how many people out there would be happy to dish out a little mob justice.

Yes they would. It is frightening to think of someone with a history of violence such as assaulting a police officer and girlfriend is carrying a weapon. That’s not the intent of the law but it was plea bargained down to alcohol awareness. Someone drinking and assaulting people is also frightening.

It probably helped that Dad was a Judge. At least it can’t hurt.
In hindsight which is always 20/20 we can see explicitly why some people should not be armed.

 

[BroomWagon]

Zimmerman’s version of the story is not even under oath, they are not sworn statements. I think that is important to remember too.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Neighborhood watch is great if citizens know when to draw the line between the responsibilities of Neighborhood Watch and those of the police.

Which according to the testimony, evidence, and prior calls he did.

GZ didn’t catch any burglars. He killed an innocent young man who was not a "suspect’
and according to the police officer during the testimony doing absolutely NOTHING wrong.

Well, except assault a man, and continue to assult him as he screamed for help.

I realize not everyone had the opportunity to read the entire transcript of the trial as I have.
That I disagree does not mean I have not watched it. I watched quite a bit of the actual trial as well.

As I have now.

This has taught everyone a valuable lesson. Now if we see Zimmerman we know he could be carrying a concealed weapon and act accordingly.

Don’t punch him in the nose, don’t knock him to the ground, and don’t continue to assault him as he screams for help.

This is generally not just a non-catholic thing to do, but a particularly bad idea in a shall-issue state where a citizen has not just the right, but might very well have availed themselves of the means to defend themselves effectively.

Amazing for a man who assaulted a police officer and his girlfriend.
Hopefully he’s learned he is not a police officer, he was rejected as one and is not to act
as one.

Allegedly assaulted a police officer and girlfriend. No convictions, and again in our justice system sometimes it is far easier, cheaper and safer to take the offered diversion than contest bogus charges.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Zimmerman’s version of the story is not even under oath, they are not sworn statements. I think that is important to remember too.

Well, except all of his statements and re-enactment were made to police officers knowing they could be used against him in court. And lying to police officers is in fact a crime. Additionally, he submitted to two lie-detector tests (voice stress analyzer) administered by the police which he passed.

The local DA opted not to charge Zimmerman for the very simple reason that all evidence supported his story with nothing to contradict it. This prosecution was politically motivated, as is the perjury charge agaist his wife. The affidavit is just as weak as the one against GZ.