Orthodox/Catholic Marriage

[OurMysticalRose]

One of my friends (who is Orthodox) is dating a Roman Catholic. He told me that if they get married he is going to raise his kids Orthodox. I told him his girlfriend would also have an obligation to raise her kids Catholic, but then he thinks he has a stronger obligation to raise his kids Orthodox because he thinks that in a few years the Catholic Church is going to be borderline Anglican. How do I tell him that’s a ridiculous claim without being rude, thanks haha.

 

[Vico]

One of my friends (who is Orthodox) is dating a Roman Catholic. He told me that if they get married he is going to raise his kids Orthodox. I told him his girlfriend would also have an obligation to raise her kids Catholic, but then he thinks he has a stronger obligation to raise his kids Orthodox because he thinks that in a few years the Catholic Church is going to be borderline Anglican. How do I tell him that’s a ridiculous claim without being rude, thanks haha.

CIC (Latin Canon Law)

Can. 1125 The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:
1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;
2/ the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party;
3/ both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage which neither of the contracting parties is to exclude.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

If he feels that way about the Catholic Faith, someone ought to tell his Catholic girlfriend that she should seriously reconsider marry him. He can’t force her to apostatize from the Faith plus she has an obligation to raise the children Catholic.

Yes, the Orthodox have valid sacraments but they also do re-baptisms and re-confirmations depending on the particular Orthodox jurisdiction. She might have to undergo these ceremonies in order to be married, notwithstanding the fact that a valid Baptism & Confirmation cannot be repeated without committing sacrilege.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

I’ve never heard of a Catholic having to undergo re-baptism or re-confirmation in order to get married in an Orthodox Church.

ETA: I’ve been to a Catholic/Orthodox wedding. It was in an Orthodox parish and the groom’s Catholic priest participated as a reader.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

AFAIK, most Orthodox jurisdictions recognize Catholic sacraments but from the threads I’ve seen here on CAF re-baptisms and re-confirmations do occur (which really irks me since the CC recognizes the validity of Orthodox sacraments/mysteries).

 

[Margaret_Ann]

the groom’s Catholic priest participated as a reader

A reader?!? (Sorry, I have to vent.)

(Now calm)

Btw, was the groom’s priest RC or EC? If RC, he should have been a witness to the wedding (which he is according to RC theology) and not a reader.

 

[ThomasMT]

How do I tell him that’s a ridiculous claim without being rude, thanks

Without the means to hold a binding ecumenical council, the Orthodox Church is effectively at the mercy of sola scriptura. That would make it more “borderline Anglican” than he predicts we will be.

Oh wait… I guess that might be taken as rude

 

[twf]

No, that was fine. There’s some serious misinformation on this thread. The Catholic Church always recognizes the validity of Orthodox marriage…
A Catholic Orthodox mixed marriage is not comparable to a Catholic Protestant mixed marriage. The Church recognizes it to be a much more nuanced situation. There can be accommodation in raising the children as valid sacraments will be received in both cases. Often the marriage ceremony itself will be Orthodox as the Orthodox jurisdiction may not recognize the marriage if celebrated in the Catholic Church.
https://www.usccb.org/committees/ec...-recommendations-spiritual-formation-children

 

[OraProNobis333]

The fathers faith would trump. Besides, raising kids in Orthodoxy is no different than raising kids in Catholicism. They are both Christ’s One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

 

[OurMysticalRose]

Well yes, but they are schismatic so they aren’t in union with Rome.

 

[Alexandria2020]

What about when an Orthodox calls another Orthodox schismatic? A Syriac Orthodox bishop called the Malankara Orthodox church schismatic. Find it so odd since they are both in the OO communion.

There’s a fight going on in India. Between the Indian Syriac Orthodox (Jacobite) & Malankara Orthodox. The Malankaras are taking over Jacobite churches using the civil court system.

 

[YHWH_Christ]

A marriage like this cannot work. The Orthodox Church requires that the children will have to be raised Orthodox.

 

[YHWH_Christ]

It depends on the bishop. But many Orthodox theologians don’t believe there is grace within heterodox baptisms and confirmations. It’s not “re-baptism” nor is it “re-confirmation” anymore than if we were to baptize someone who was baptized in a heretical fashion (such as Oneness Pentecostals). As Orthodox we don’t just categorize things into “valid” or “invalid” like western theologians do, because we believe the Orthodox Church is the true Church established by Christ and that grace chiefly exists only within the Orthodox Church which extends to our mysteries. That doesn’t mean all baptisms outside of the Orthodox Church are necessarily rejected, although it is recognized that they may be lacking in grace, and through the mystery of chrismation, by oikonomia a baptism could be given what it was once previously lacking and many Orthodox bishops decide to go the route of oikonomia. But as said, some bishops will require a full Orthodox baptism which, unlike Roman Catholic and Protestant baptisms, we know for certain has grace because it is of the Orthodox Church which is the One True Church established by Jesus Christ. But regardless of the way a person is received into the Orthodox Church all bishops are required to accept it because the Church accepts it and the Orthodox Church is the Bride of Christ.

 

[Alexandria2020]

As Orthodox we don’t just categorize things into “valid” or “invalid” like western theologians do, because we believe the Orthodox Church is the true Church established by Christ and that grace chiefly exists only within the Orthodox Church which extends to our mysteries. That doesn’t mean all baptisms outside of the Orthodox Church are necessarily rejected, although it is recognized that they may be lacking in grace, and through the mystery of chrismation, by oikonomia a baptism could be given what it was once previously lacking and many Orthodox bishops decide to go the route of oikonomia.

how are relations between the Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox)? Could someone who received all the sacraments at the OCA (Orthodox Church in America) say for example, start attending the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America? or the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America?

 

[Isaac14]

Could someone who received all the sacraments at the OCA (Orthodox Church in America) say for example, start attending the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America? or the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America?

Yes. Though members of the Russian church wouldn’t be able to give the same answer.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

But many Orthodox theologians don’t believe there is grace within heterodox baptisms and confirmations. It’s not “re-baptism” nor is it “re-confirmation” anymore than if we were to baptize someone who was baptized in a heretical fashion (such as Oneness Pentecostals).

Wasn’t this issue settled during era of St. Cyprian? Church at large was against Cyprianic rebaptism IIRC.

 

[HollyDolly]

My mother a hungarian was Roman catholic.She, her brother and sister spent time in an orphanage run by the Daughters of Charity.They later had contact with her father’s side, because I recall her going to a relatives funeral conducted in the Hungarian Byzantine Church.Her mother was a hungarian presbyterian. My dad was german, his mother’s side was lutheran and his father’s Bavarian catholics. Grandma’s family weren’t big church goers, so when they got married she didn’t object to my dad and uncle being raised Catholics, after all Luther had been a monk. She would go to mass with her husband and sons, and later converted. I think it can work out with some consoling .I in Girl Scouts knew a girl who had a jewish father and a catholic mother. She went to catholic School , but as far as religion went, her parents said when she was an adult, it would be up to her to choose what faith she followed, and they would accept the choice.

 

[ziapueblo]

how are relations between the Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox)? Could someone who received all the sacraments at the OCA (Orthodox Church in America) say for example, start attending the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America? or the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America?

Yes. I’m “Greek” Orthodox but often visit the OCA here in town.

ZP

 

[ziapueblo]

Without the means to hold a binding ecumenical council, the Orthodox Church is effectively at the mercy of sola scriptura.

You’re saying that the we Orthodox believe in sola scriptura? Surely you jest!?!?

ZP

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

You’re saying that the we Orthodox believe in sola scriptura ? Surely you jest!?!?

“Effectively”.

What this probably means is that without central authority to make anything definitive, Orthodoxy is quite close to similar principle as “Sola Scripture”. Or rather than “Only Scripture” one could use “Only Scripture, Councils, Early Fathers”. Current authority is somewhat non-existent. No Council held is infallible, no interpretation of Council is infallible etc.

Basically principle of decentralization.