Palm Beach County at center of probe into voter fraud

[seekerz]

Voter ID is to stop the fraud that isn’t being caught. I’m not as gullible as those who claim that voter fraud doesn’t exist. They apparently believe that all fraud is caughtbefore it gets to the voter booth.

But, I get your argument. You believe that the only non-existant fraud is Republican fraud.

If the fraud isn’t being caught, how do we know it’s happening?

 

[bellasbane]

Voter ID is to stop the fraud that isn’t being caught. I’m not as gullible as those who claim that voter fraud doesn’t exist. They apparently believe that all fraud is caughtbefore it gets to the voter booth.

But, I get your argument. You believe that the only non-existant fraud is Republican fraud.

So, Conservative logic says, “We know something exists when nobody gets caught doing it”

Fraud getting caught before it gets to the voting booth is a fact. Fraud getting caught at the voting booth by photo ID is a wish.

 

[rlg94086]

As the examples I have posted, it was found after the votes had gone through and the election decided

You have to use Liberal logic, Abyssinia. Those instances of non-existant fraud were found, therefore there is no fraud that isn’t being stopped…just like traffic violations and theft.

 

[seekerz]

Trying to police this sort of fraud at the polls during a major election is an inefficient and expensive strategy that does more harm than good by slowing down the voting process and creating long lines and delays at the polls. Not to mention disenfranchising thousands of legitimate voters who lack the proper ID. This is especially true in urban areas and is a form of voter suppression.

No. The solution is already in place and clearly works - giving election officials more resources to screen for these sorts of registrations and eliminate these fake registrations from the rolls BEFORE voting day is cheaper & more effective.

Exactly. This is why I don’t buy the voter fraud justification for the imposition of vote ID laws. If this was a sincere desire to root out fraud, it should have been started as soon as possible after the previous election, giving people ample time to get any documentation they lack. Instead we have this last minute effort - why? The last presidential election was*** four*** years ago. Did it take all that time to realize there was a problem that needed to be addressed?

 

[bellasbane]

How would voter ID help someone whose registration form was shredded?

Exactly!

Voter suppression is election fraud.

 

[rlg94086]

So, Conservative logic says, “We know something exists when nobody gets caught doing it”

Fraud getting caught before it gets to the voting booth is a fact. Fraud getting caught at the voting booth by photo ID is a wish.

Nope. Conservative logic says “we have caught some fraud, so there is logically more fraud that isn’t being caught. One easy point to tighten up is at the booth to prevent someone from showing up at the polls and voting in someone else’s and/or a fake name.”

It’s pretty simple, really. It only fails to make sens if you are gullible enough to think fraud doesn’t exist (except for Republican fraud, of course) or is 100% caught already.

 

[rlg94086]

Exactly. This is why I don’t buy the voter fraud justification for the imposition of vote ID laws. If this was a sincere desire to root out fraud, it should have been started as soon as possible after the previous election, giving people ample time to get any documentation they lack. Instead we have this last minute effort - why? The last presidential election was*** four*** years ago. Did it take all that time to realize there was a problem that needed to be addressed?

The push for Voter ID laws has been going on for years - well before Obama was elected. The current push did happen after the previous election, and people have had time to get documentation.

 

[bellasbane]

You have to use Liberal logic, Abyssinia. Those instances of non-existant fraud were found, therefore there is no fraud that isn’t being stopped…just like traffic violations and theft.

Felons voting, people registered in two places, people voting in the wrong district – those things happen and voter ID won’t stop them, but they are used to defend voter ID.

Nobody has found more than a handful of cases of voter impersonation. That is a fact. Ask the GOP lawyers in PA. They admit it in court.

 

[rlg94086]

Felons voting, people registered in two places, people voting in the wrong district – those things happen and voter ID won’t stop them, but they are used to defend voter ID.

**Nobody has found more than a handful of cases of voter impersonation. **That is a fact. Ask the GOP lawyers in PA. They admit it in court.

Therefore, it doesn’t exist (Liberal logic). You would have been a kick, defending the flat earth before Columbus sailed.

The fact that impersonation and fraudulent registrations occur is enough reason for Voter ID. The handful that have been caught is indicative that it occurs, and logically not all of it is being caught. The only way to catch impersonation without Voter ID is if the poll worker happens to know the real voter or the real voter complains. Fake names that make it to the registrations would not be caught at all.

 

[bellasbane]

Nope. Conservative logic says “we have caught some fraud, so there is logically more fraud that isn’t being caught. One easy point to tighten up is at the booth to prevent someone from showing up at the polls and voting in someone else’s and/or a fake name.”

It’s pretty simple, really. It only fails to make sens if you are gullible enough to think fraud doesn’t exist (except for Republican fraud, of course) or is 100% caught already.

You are wrong to say it is an “easy point to tighten up” - that is the whole problem. It is NOT easy, it creates hardship for many people who have to get ID or wait in long lines to vote because it takes that much longer to process each person.

 

[bellasbane]

Therefore, it doesn’t exist (Liberal logic). You would have been a kick, defending the flat earth before Columbus sailed.

The fact that impersonation and fraudulent registrations occur is enough reason for Voter ID. The handful that have been caught is indicative that it occurs, and logically not all of it is being caught. The only way to catch impersonation without Voter ID is if the poll worker happens to know the real voter or the real voter complains. Fake names that make it to the registrations would not be caught at all.

Making up stuff about me and what I’ve said doesn’t help your argument. People on this forum can read you know.

 

[rlg94086]

Making up stuff about me and what I’ve said doesn’t help your argument. People on this forum can read you know.

Indeed, they can. The majority (I think that’s right…I’m constantly told that CAF is majority conservative) are capable of logical reasoning and will see that I didn’t quote you or misquote you in that post.

 

[bellasbane]

Indeed, they can. The majority (I think that’s right…I’m constantly told that CAF is majority conservative) are capable of logical reasoning and will see that I didn’t quote you or misquote you in that post.

Nice try. Fortunately this thread is still short enough for people to see the process of how you made up the idea that I deny voter fraud exists.

 

[rlg94086]

Nice try. Fortunately this thread is still short enough for people to see the process of how you made up the idea that I deny voter fraud exists.

I was referring to the many threads on voter fraud, where we’ve been told by liberals that we don’t need Voter ID because there is no voter fraud. In fairness, you may not have been one of those posters. However, your posts certainly imply that you are.

My apologies, if you do believe voter fraud exists and oppose Voter ID because you’d like it to continue unabated.

 

[Seeker1961]

I was referring to the many threads on voter fraud, where we’ve been told by liberals that we don’t need Voter ID because there is no voter fraud. In fairness, you may not have been one of those posters. However, your posts certainly imply that you are.

My apologies if you do believe voter fraud exists and oppose Voter ID because you’d like it to continue unabated.

I oppose the Voter ID laws because they aren’t necessary and cost money we don’t have. This fraud was uncovered by processes that were already in existence before Rick Scott’s voter ID laws.

 

[rlg94086]

I oppose the Voter ID laws because they aren’t necessary and cost money we don’t have. This fraud was uncovered by processes that were already in existence before Rick Scott’s voter ID laws.

And, hopefully, fraud that hasn’t been caught will be stopped by the Voter ID laws. Your assumption that they are unnecessary because some fraud has been caught by other means doesn’t make any sense. It’s like saying, we card underage buyers of alcohol, therefore, there is no need to do a breathalyzer test on an underage drinker because underage drinkers have been stopped by other processes.

 

[bellasbane]

I was referring to the many threads on voter fraud, where we’ve been told by liberals that we don’t need Voter ID because there is no voter fraud. In fairness, you may not have been one of those posters. However, your posts certainly imply that you are.

My apologies, if you do believe voter fraud exists and oppose Voter ID because you’d like it to continue unabated.

There is a huge difference between saying something exists and saying something is such a big problem that we have to disenfranchise millions of people in order to fix it.

The only big problem voter ID fixes is the GOP demographics problem.

 

[markomalley]

To quote my comment from the other thread on this subject:

And there are three things that we can learn from this. Take this lesson as a good one:

1. The practice of paying groups to perform voter registration (whether the group is ACORN or otherwise), particularly when the firms are paid by signature, should be added as a violation of both federal and state election law.
2. A person’s proof of residence and identity should be insisted upon when that person registers to vote. And that proof should be witnessed by a person who takes an oath under penalty of felony perjury that he/she laid actual hands on the proof. And ALL voter registration records should be randomly audited.
3. This is epitomizes why BOTH Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, should fully support voter identification laws and strict validation of the integrity of registration rolls.

Do I believe the Republicans could be doing this? Of course…they are human and subject to temptations as much as Democrats.

 

[rlg94086]

To quote my comment from the other thread on this subject:

 

[bellasbane]

And, hopefully, fraud that hasn’t been caught will be stopped by the Voter ID laws. Your assumption that they are unnecessary because some fraud has been caught by other means doesn’t make any sense. It’s like saying, we card underage buyers of alcohol, therefore, there is no need to do a breathalyzer test on an underage drinker because underage drinkers have been stopped by other processes.

This analogy makes no sense. The problem of underage drinking is not solved by breathalyzer tests and the problem of DUI is not solved by carding minors. They are related, but distinct problems, each with its own solution.

Entirely preventing teens from driving would solve the DUI problem, but people would have a problem with that solution for many of the same reasons they have a problem with voter ID laws, and driving isn’t even a constitutionally protected right.