Pandemic 2020: Layoff Related Deaths Exceed COVID-19 Deaths By 41%

[dvdjs]

The loss of life will not be changed in any way other than timing until there is either an effective and widely used vaccine or a treatment that is far more effective than anything available today.

And, obviously, extending the timeline enhaces the prospect that "either an effective and widely used vaccine or a treatment " is found to lower the death toll.

 

[Maximus1]

No but thanks for asking. I am trying to understand the herd romance

 

[JonNC]

Just wait until we have a new surge in people getting infected and dying.

Unless there is a vaccine or treatment, that is inevitable. The best we can do is try to protect the most vulnerable, most of whom are those over 60.
We cannot stay closed down until then. It isn’t possible. People are losing their businesses, their jobs, their savings. Children are missing classes and extracurricular activities.
It isn’t a matter of either/or. It is a matter of reopening AND protecting the most vulnerable as we search for a vaccine snd/or treatment.

And even when stay at home/shelter in place orders are lifted and businesses are allowed to reopen, because many people are still afraid of infection, they still won’t go shopping for non essential items or go eat in restaurants or go back to work.

In a free society, choices are important. When things open, I will go back to work because I choose to. I will take every snd all precautions.

Until there are treatments or a vaccine and people feel more secure, the economy will be severly impacted regardless of what public health orders there are. The economy is not going to suddenly bounce back any time soon.

You may be right, but there is no reason, in many places, to stop reopening.

 

[PaulinVA]

Unless there is a vaccine or treatment, that is inevitable. The best we can do is try to protect the most vulnerable, most of whom are those over 60.

No, there is a randomness to the blood clots and strokes and other complications that we don’t understand. EVERYONE is vulnerable until we understand more.

It isn’t a matter of either/or. It is a matter of reopening AND protecting the most vulnerable as we search for a vaccine snd/or treatment.

Meanwhile, for some, it’s apparently a political statement to go out in public and not wear masks and not maintain social distance from others. These people are dangerous to us all. Do you propose arresting them?

 

[JonNC]

No, there is a randomness to the blood clots and strokes and other complications that we don’t understand. EVERYONE is vulnerable until we understand more.

You’ll have to show me where 10 and youngest are dying at a comparable rate to 60 and olders. If you can, I will consider my current understanding to be false.

Meanwhile, for some, it’s apparently a political statement to go out in public and not wear masks and not maintain social distance from others. These people are dangerous to us all. Do you propose arresting them?

They are, first of all, stupid, but they are not a threat to me since I don’t do the same. If you don’t do the same, they are not a threat to you, either.
I do not propose arresting them. In fact New York’s mayor has acted in authoritarian ways (the Hasidic Jews, for example), while he goes to the gym.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

We cannot stay closed down until then. It isn’t possible. People are losing their businesses, their jobs, their savings. Children are missing classes and extracurricular activities.
It isn’t a matter of either/or. It is a matter of reopening AND protecting the most vulnerable as we search for a vaccine snd/or treatment.

This. +1000.

I keep saying the Fed can print money but they can’t print the economy.

If the lockdowns are allowed to continue into June, the new Great Depression won’t be far behind and there will be too little economy to support the battle against the next wave of Covid-19. Or the next flu pandemic.

The longer it takes to exit the lockdowns, the longer it will take the economy to recover to a shadow of what it once was. There are and will be generational changes in consumer habits as there was following the last Great Depression.

Air travel is so dead that Warren Buffett sold off his entire inventory of airline stocks. He has also been reducing his stake in Apple.

With the work from home initiatives and the coming retail bankruptcies, commercial real estate will be seriously if not mortally wounded.

With one third of tenants already not paying the rent and a similar number already not paying the mortgage, residential real estate is about to crash hard as it did in 1990-94 and 2007-09. Maybe harder.

With the severe decline in sales and gas taxes (and possibly property taxes as well), state and local budgets will implode, hence services and public pensions will be in deep trouble.

With the advent of distance learning and the burden of student loans, many colleges will crash.

With the sharp drop in revenues, we have already seen a record number of companies either reduce their dividends or cut them entirely, decimating millions of portfolios that were dependent on them.

We’re not that far away. Open. Your. Eyes.

End the lockdowns. Concentrate resources on protecting the vulnerable.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The loss of life will not be changed in any way other than timing until there is either an effective and widely used vaccine or a treatment that is far more effective than anything available today.

…on until there is aggressive testing an contact tracing and narrowly-targeted isolation. That would do it too.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Unless there is a vaccine or treatment, that is inevitable.

See above. It is not inevitable.

They are, first of all, stupid, but they are not a threat to me since I don’t do the same. If you don’t do the same, they are not a threat to you, either.

Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not the wearer. These people that go shopping without a mask are definitely a threat to me, even thought I am wearing one. (Unless it is a medical-grade N95 mask.)

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Without the lockdowns, it would have been worse.

Of course, this is unprovable. I posted lots of stats related to the fact that the economic destruction we have wrought will lead to even more deaths, but we are told “you can’t say for sure”. Technically true, but if history is an indicator, quite accurate.

 

[JonNC]

See above. It is not inevitable

Then you are opting for economic collapse. We can have a reopened economy, safeguard the most vulnerable, and practice mitigations in our everyday lives. That won’t stop infections and even deaths, but I do not see other choices.

Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not the wearer.

I wear a mask to protect me. I’m the one I have control over.

These people that go shopping without a mask are definitely a threat to me, even thought I am wearing one. (Unless it is a medical-grade N95 mask.)

Stay six feet away, don’t have a long conversation with them, walk away if they are too close. No, they are not a threat to you unless you let them be.

 

[SugarMagnolia]

If you lose your money, you can get more money later.
If you lose your life, you can’t get more life later.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

See above. It is not inevitable

Then you are opting for economic collapse. We can have a reopened economy, safeguard the most vulnerable, and practice mitigations in our everyday lives. That won’t stop infections and even deaths, but I do not see other choices.

Then you might want to open your eyes to aggressive testing and contact tracing which provides to narrowly targeted isolation, allowing the economy to hum along while saving lives in the process.

Wearing a mask is primarily to protect others, not the wearer.

I wear a mask to protect me.

It does that somewhat, but if you knew you were an asymptomatic carrier of covid-19, wouldn’t you wear a mask anyway to protect others when you go out in public, like to the grocery store? Well, you could be an asymptomatic carrier and not know it too. So wearing a mask is something we can all do for each other.

These people that go shopping without a mask are definitely a threat to me, even thought I am wearing one. (Unless it is a medical-grade N95 mask.)

Stay six feet away, don’t have a long conversation with them, walk away if they are too close. No, they are not a threat to you unless you let them be.

These precautions can help, but it would help even more if everyone else wore a mask.

 

[Ridgerunner]

…on until there is aggressive testing an contact tracing and narrowly-targeted isolation. That would do it too.

I would also like to see those things. I think we’re getting close to having a uniformly available test. Right now it seems pretty scattered as to the tests being used and the circumstances under which they’re being used.

I’m not sure the country is well set up for nearly-whole-country testing.

 

[PaulinVA]

You’ll have to show me where 10 and youngest are dying at a comparable rate to 60 and olders. If you can, I will consider my current understanding to be false.

They don’t have to be vulnerable at the same rate to be vulnerable. Younger people are dying too, and it doesn’t make sense. THAT is alarming.

They are, first of all, stupid, but they are not a threat to me since I don’t do the same. If you don’t do the same, they are not a threat to you, either.

Yes, they are a direct threat to me. We are wearing masks to protect other people, in case we are asymptomatic and shedding virus. People that aren’t willing to protect others should not be allowed in public. I have no choice whether I come upon these people or not. Masks do not eliminate spread, but can help to contain it.

Or maybe you don’t care about that?

 

[Jeanne_S]

That’s true,So I guess your suggestion is we let the economy continue to free fall and keep people home for maybe two years,what if a vaccine isn’t available in two years,then what ?

 

[Jeanne_S]

I guess those are words to live by,no pun ntended

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

True about the economy, but unless you have a solution to provide income for millions of people (and $1200 a month is rent around here, not income), shutting down waiting for a vaccine isn’t going to happen.

 

[Maximus1]

Headstones should have:
Forced back… made $1865.39 before I succumbed.
Should be a template.Maybe add, I took two from my beloved nuclear family along the way.
Sorry, but the medical experts are all confirming how Dickensian this is and I couldn’t help it.

 

[Peeps]

We cannot stay closed down until then. It isn’t possible. People are losing their businesses, their jobs, their savings. Children are missing classes and extracurricular activities.
It isn’t a matter of either/or. It is a matter of reopening AND protecting the most vulnerable as we search for a vaccine snd/or treatment.

This is so sensible. And we do it all the time when it comes to influenza and other viral diseases. I’ve seen elderly people and people on chemotherapy and others wearing face masks during the winter months. I know people who don’t go out much during the winter.

I was watching a documentary (older) about propaganda in Nazi Germany, and heard a most interesting commentary. Apparently, the Nazi regime preferred that people be outside in large crowds where they could be observed and monitored for proper behavior towards their government. They did NOT want people staying in their homes because then they didn’t know what those people were doing and saying.

I think that this staying at home is creating a lot of people, myself included, who are becoming more and more angry about the lack of freedom. People inside houses talk and watch television and listen to the radio, and have plenty of time to talk even more about what they are experiencing. Also, it’s hard work for most of us to be imprisoned in our houses most of the time with only an occasional walk to break up the monotony, or work for those of us who still have jobs outside the home.

I have already said in another thread that I believe in Illinois, we will see a rebellion of some type during Memorial Day weekend. Our governor has just announced a 5 Step Plan to Re-Opening Illinois, and at my hospital today, many of my co-workers, most of them fairly young (under 40), politically moderate or liberal, and critics of Pres. Trump, were talking in low voices about how idiotic and unscientific our governor’s plan is.

It’s kind of frightening.

I know that one of the best approaches that parents can utitlize when raising children is to give them freedoms as they become mature and responsible enough to use those freedoms wisely. One of the WORST parenting techniques is to keep the child bound by many rules and regulations–inevitably, many children will break loose and it will not be pleasant for them or anyone else.

I think that the governor would be wiser to allow people to use common sense. Most of us care very much for our vulnerable populations and will restrain our own desires and needs in order to help others stay safe. (We do it all the time–instead of flooring the accelerator and weaving in and out of traffic, we stick with the speed limit and stay in our lane.) The few people who don’t care for people who are susceptible to sickness will violate the strict rules anyway, so the rules don’t affect them. These draconian policies just hurt the ones who are willing to restrain themselves by choice rather than rule of law. And in addition, they destroy the economy, which in Illinois, might be the best thing that can happen becaues our economy was already pretty much torpedoed anyway.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Once you post a method for replacing lost income, I’ll respond to this sort of silliness. Until then, you are a person with a hollow, meaningless opinion.