Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

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Ana, I don’t agree with your assessment of his body language - that is your interpretation. I respectfully disagree with it.

ANd I know I will get in trouble with some on htis site for this next one, but it is true - the Pope is infallible with regards to matters of the faith that are ex cathedra - liturgical music is not one of those things. I believe the choice of music did an excellent job of showing the vibrancy of our faith. There is not just one form of music that is sacred. Some may be harder to pull off than others, I will certainly admit that, but it is not impossible, and I believe the various choirs were geunine and successful in their attempt at the sacred. Again, my opinion.
 
To say the Pope only has a non binding ‘opinion’ is not exactly dealing with the way Rome postulates its teachings.

The last time the Pope spoke “Ex Cathedra” was over a century ago.
 
Lorik said:
I’m sure that Protestants pray for the intercession of the Holy Spirit also but still fail at accepting some of the truths of the Church.
What happened at that Mass was shameful. The Pope has always been crystal clear on was is acceptable music for the Holy Mass and what is acceptable outside of the Mass. To refuse to to acknowledge it was arrogant. It makes the U.S. look bad. It’s like saying “Thanks for your suggestions, your Holiness, but your in America and here we like to do things our way”.
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Let us all let God be the judge shall we. We have been neglecting Him over all of this. I can feel it He just shake his head right now. Forgive me my Lord my God for your sake and for the Holy Father’s sake, I am going to stop in expressing my humble opinion here. I appreciate each and everyone of you who response to my comment. May God bless all of you.

home.inreach.com/bstanley/index.htm ( Catholic Treasure - Read on How to Become A Good Catholic )
 
Pange_Lingua said:
To say the Pope only has a non binding ‘opinion’ is not exactly dealing with the way Rome postulates its teachings.
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There are differences between things that are his opinion and things that he puts into doctrine, dogma, or official practices.

It is his opinion that he likes classical music. It is a practice that he would like the liturgy to try to have more chant, organ music, and/or Latin.

None of this is dogma or binding on future Popes.
 
I’m listening to this EWTN video right now. So far the music sounds nice, I’m still at the beginning at the Gloria. Now someone is speaking in Spanish.

Can someone please tell me what song is particularly offensive?
 
I just listened to the responsoral psalm. I didn’t particularly like the orchestration of that one.
 
lovesmary - the psalm, while textually straight from the Bible, was in a rather disonant setting which i, even though I was singing it, didn’t appreciate all that much. But then again, someone else told me they loved it - go figure.
 
I’m now listening to The Holy Father’s homily. I love his voice and his message. He is a beautiful human being. He talks about division and the attitudes of believers that are contrary to the Gospel. He speaks of The Holy Spirit, and the unity of humanity, plus acknowledges the diversity in America united under the faith. He talks about the longing for genuine freedom and happiness. He talks of the importance of Vatican II and the new evangelization, and the challenges presented by secularization.

He talks about the need for following the path to true freedom for the young, and the need for better catechisis. Also, for promoting an intellectual Catholic culture, founded on faith and reason.

He calls Americans “A people of hope” and how he came to foster hope. He talks of injustices in our past, yet that hope is such a part of the American character. He says that we should focus on The Lord and his saving plan.

He acknowledges the pain of the pain of sexual abuse in a heartfelt way. He affirms the need to protect child, who are so precious. He pleas for healing for the souls who have been hurt, and for us to love our priests.

He talks about the need for the consolation of hope. He talks of the forgiveness of sins and hope of new beginning. He encourages the need for confession. He urges this sacrament. He says “in hope, we are saved”. He asks us to set aside all division. He urges us to be a part of evangelical hope and help build a more just and free world.

He talks of the whole world being reconciled through Jesus Christ, Amen.

Now he is speaking in Spanish.
 
peacelight said:
How do we know that it was a distasteful musics for him yesterday? QUOTE]

Because you go to a bookstore or a library or the internet and you google ‘Benedict XVI and Sacred Music’ and then you read it.

Or his Autobiography.

Or even on this blog, we’ve had several passages from his writings.
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The general intercessions were done in many languages, something that the EWTN seems to think was overdone multi-culturalism that the Holy Father will spend time pondering in the weeks to come.

Now the music is rather non-descript choral music, it’s not bad, very nice, rather traditional sounding.

Now they have something that sounds South American folkish. It sounds like it has Andean flutes. People are going up to greet the Pope. What part og the Mass is that? The music is lively, I like it, but I don’t understand this part of the ceremony.

edit: the commentator says that was the offeratory. He seems critical of the multi-cultural display.
 
Marauder said:
It is like talking to a wall.

a) All songs were approved by the Vatican and the archdiocese.

If the Vatican and archdiocese approved the music,rather than just the lyrics,they must have bad taste or dull musical sensibilities,just like so many church music directors.

b) He has expressed his opinion. It is only that. Just because he prefers one type of music doesn’t mean all the music at the event has to be that way.

His opinions on what kinds of music are appropriate and not appropriate for the liturgy are well grounded in reason. Church music should be beautiful,noble,dignified,solemn. It should not make people wince and distract or annoy them and ruin their experience of the mass. It should not sound like cheap popular entertainment music or heathenish ritual music,or Dionysian dance music. It should not sound cheaply banal,or be so esoteric that the listeners can’t make sense of the melodic line or the harmonies and modulations.

As I said in an earlier post:

The music was embarrassing. The pope has written in a couple of his books (Feast of Faith,A New Song for the Lord) about the problems of modern church music: how people get carried away with “creativity” in church,how modern classical music has backed itself into an elitist ghetto,and how popular music styles are not appropriate for use in the sacred liturgy. It’s almost like the music director wanted to torment the pope. The song at the beginning of the mass had such a formless,ungainly,ugly melody,as if the composer intended to express the dreary,bad faith characteristic of the modern world,or to turn people off from Catholicism. The tribal flute and drum music during the blessing of the Eucharist made it seem like the pope was engaged in some kind of pagan ritual. It had a comically surreal effect.
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Marauder said:
Again where did he say he couldn’t stand the music? I have read things about preferences and a wish to get back to and stuff like that. I have never heard or read him say, he couldn’t stand the music.

I think you have been reading and/or interpretting what other people are saying he said instead of reading the exact quotes.
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Marauder, we’ve even had passages from his writing in this blog! All you have to do is google it, the Holy Father has written very much on sacred music and the liturgy. I have made it a point myself to read all of his works published before his election. Nobody is misrepresenting Benedict on these points. In fact, the shrill tone the conversation has taken is because his thinking on liturgy is extremely well known by many people–people who read.
 
As a musician, and someone who used to try to ‘push the boundaries’ on what music was done during Mass…I realize that the Liturgical forms and prayers (Eucharistic prayers, etc.) are not to be tampered with by ‘augmenting’ the prayers with personal choices and preferences.

But the liturgical music is different and I’ve found it is often led by people who have never read any church teaching on the role of music in the liturgy, i.e. Musica Sacram. They rely on Oregon Catholic Press (OCP) to give them an idea of what to use on a particular Sunday Mass. The priests often are not musicians and may feel inadequate in voicing a concern without knowing the music vocabulary, so to speak.

In effect, music is the most subjective part of the Mass, in that I can play ANY piece of Catholic music - classical, contemporary, traditional, etc. and there will be a portion of people who do not like it.

The USCCB has discussed the issue of actually approving ALL music used in Mass, and possibly having an approved ‘list’ of what songs could be used during the liturgy. They stopped short of mandating any of that though. Truthfully, the bishops are supposed to approve of all hymns used in their diocese, but in reality they simply don’t have the time and resources for that.

If the vatican approved of the hymns used yesterday - then so be it. It may be possible that there were more atrocious songs to be performed that were rejected by the Vatican!

I just hope it doesn’t encourage lay musicians to try to teach their band the calypso song they heard at the Papal Mass! There are many who would LOVE to have a Metal Mass, or a Polka Mass (it exists), or a Hannah Montana Mass! But I digress…

The choirs did a beautiful job with the music they were given. I appreciate all the time and effort that everyone volunteered to make it happen. Praise be to God!
 
Now, as they incense the altar again they played some Native American type music.The commentator comments on this music as being unusual.
 
qubica said:
As a musician, and someone who used to try to ‘push the boundaries’ on what music was done during Mass…I realize that the Liturgical forms and prayers (Eucharistic prayers, etc.) are not to be tampered with by ‘augmenting’ the prayers with personal choices and preferences.

But the liturgical music is different and I’ve found it is often led by people who have never read any church teaching on the role of music in the liturgy, i.e. Musica Sacram. They rely on Oregon Catholic Press (OCP) to give them an idea of what to use on a particular Sunday Mass. The priests often are not musicians and may feel inadequate in voicing a concern without knowing the music vocabulary, so to speak.

In effect, music is the most subjective part of the Mass, in that I can play ANY piece of Catholic music - classical, contemporary, traditional, etc. and there will be a portion of people who do not like it.

The USCCB has discussed the issue of actually approving ALL music used in Mass, and possibly having an approved ‘list’ of what songs could be used during the liturgy. They stopped short of mandating any of that though. Truthfully, the bishops are supposed to approve of all hymns used in their diocese, but in reality they simply don’t have the time and resources for that.

If the vatican approved of the hymns used yesterday - then so be it. It may be possible that there were more atrocious songs to be performed that were rejected by the Vatican!

I just hope it doesn’t encourage lay musicians to try to teach their band the calypso song they heard at the Papal Mass! There are many who would LOVE to have a Metal Mass, or a Polka Mass (it exists), or a Hannah Montana Mass! But I digress…

The choirs did a beautiful job with the music they were given. I appreciate all the time and effort that everyone volunteered to make it happen. Praise be to God!
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Hannah Montana mass … :rotfl:
 
The music for the Mass in Yankee Stadium is going to reflect the tradition of The Church. 🙂 This just in according to Father Neuhaus.

God is Great,
DCD
 
The communion music is now playing. It has lots of trumpets. Nothing earthshakingly offensive about it. Now they are leading into another song, It sounds jazzy. It sounds like a Black spiritual. I’m not crazy about that style personally.
 
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