Papal Mass in DC (was it me or was the music crazy?)

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momoften - I just don’t believe that he is offended by it - it may not be his first choice - I get that, but it is entirely something else to say that it offends him - i just can’t believe he is that single-minded in this regard, especially since he has probably been witness to far more divergent displays of liturgy than we have.
 
I just got though talking to my mom about this. She hasn’t seen the Mass, I have sent her the link so she can watch it. One thing she pointed out was that there was most likely some Protestants there. If that’s the case it could very easily explain the clapping. She also pointed out that at WYD they have been known to use Protestant choirs. Does anyone know if any of the choirs present were from Protestant churches?
 
My final thoughts:

At times, my teens will “push the envelope”…I do not believe they do this to “break the limits”; but, rather, to “find” the limits…I think they WANT limits…and go as far as they can to see where the line will actually be drawn.

I believe this was done yesterday at Mass…and I hope the Holy Father helps them find their limits.

God Bless!
 
mom_of_ten said:
My final thoughts:

At times, my teens will “push the envelope”…I do not believe they do this to “break the limits”; but, rather, to “find” the limits…I think they WANT limits…and go as far as they can to see where the line will actually be drawn.

I believe this was done yesterday at Mass…and I hope the Holy Father helps them find their limits.

God Bless!
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I like this analogy.

I read this thread yesterday, and watched the Mass on my computer this morning.

First of all, I was again reminded of how wonderful it is to be Catholic. I had a joy in my heart that I haven’t had for a very long time and I loved seeing the throngs of people worshiping with our Pope.

I did not appreciate the overzealous multi-culturalism. The majority of U.S. Catholics speak English, worship in English, and have European roots. Although a nod to our diverse cultures would have been fine, there was no reason to say prayers in languages other than English, or to sing songs that belonged anywhere but in the Mass. A few of the tunes sounded as though they would be more apropos at a night club. Overall the effect was like that of a newlywed bride, struggling to make her first meal for the extended family, and serving every dish she knows how to make regardless of the fact that none of it fits together. In the right context, it might all be satisfying, but combined it was as St. Paul said, " a noisy gong, a clanging cymbal."

That being said, I will trust the Holy Father to make his wishes and if appropriate, his displeasure, known. I am happy he came to the United States and I hope his visit will bring about a resurgence in the faith.
 
Sabda said:
I just got though talking to my mom about this. She hasn’t seen the Mass, I have sent her the link so she can watch it. One thing she pointed out was that there was most likely some Protestants there. If that’s the case it could very easily explain the clapping. She also pointed out that at WYD they have been known to use Protestant choirs. Does anyone know if any of the choirs present were from Protestant churches?
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The children’s choir and the adult choir were composed of volunteers from local catholic parishes. I know this for a fact because I know several people who were blessed to sing. Auditions were required and many long hours of practice went in to their preparation. I don’t know about the cultural choir. I’m not sure who picked the music, but I tend to agree with AdvanceAlways:
AdvanceAlways said:
Can none of you for one minute think about what we witnessed today!? The Holy Father was in our presence celebrating the Sacred Liturgy! Nothing is EVER good enough for some folks here. Can we not be grateful for what we witnessed!?

Was the music amazing? No.
Was God with us? Yes.

Many of us will never see this again, and will never again be part of something so awe inspiring.
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I was able to get tickets at the very last minute so I was BLESSED to be present at the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I wasn’t crazy about all the music…but, I renewed my baptismal vows, prayed the Our Father, and received Our Lord Jesus Christ with Pope Benedict XVI and 45,000+ other brothers and sisters. I am still trying to absorb this amazing experience. I was also impressed with the reverence shown by all the participants, given that we were in a baseball stadium. Please baseball fans don’t take offense but there was no room to kneel and it was a bit distracting with sound bouncing around making it hard to hear and concentrate. It was truly amazing!
 
Chovy said:
I like this analogy.

First of all, I was again reminded of how wonderful it is to be Catholic. I had a joy in my heart that I haven’t had for a very long time and I loved seeing the throngs of people worshiping with our Pope.

I did not appreciate the overzealous multi-culturalism. The majority of U.S. Catholics speak English, worship in English, and have European roots. Although a nod to our diverse cultures would have been fine, there was no reason to say prayers in languages other than English, or to sing songs that belonged anywhere but in the Mass. A few of the tunes sounded as though they would be more apropos at a night club. Overall the effect was like that of a newlywed bride, struggling to make her first meal for the extended family, and serving every dish she knows how to make regardless of the fact that none of it fits together. In the right context, it might all be satisfying, but combined it was as St. Paul said, " a noisy gong, a clanging cymbal."

That being said, I will trust the Holy Father to make his wishes and if appropriate, his displeasure, known. I am happy he came to the United States and I hope his visit will bring about a resurgence in the faith.
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I really love this post!! This is how I feel exactly.!!🙂
 
ntheobald said:
I was able to get tickets at the very last minute so I was BLESSED to be present at the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I wasn’t crazy about all the music…but, I renewed my baptismal vows, prayed the Our Father, and received Our Lord Jesus Christ with Pope Benedict XVI and 45,000+ other brothers and sisters. I am still trying to absorb this amazing experience. I was also impressed with the reverence shown by all the participants, given that we were in a baseball stadium. Please baseball fans don’t take offense but there was no room to kneel and it was a bit distracting with sound bouncing around making it hard to hear and concentrate. It was truly amazing!
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You were blessed to be there, horrible music or not.🙂 I wonder if the acoustics made it sound a lot worse then it was.🤷
 
Ana said:
I was only to catch the end of it, from consecration on, but the music was crazy. No rhyme or reason. Some of it in my opinion was way too loud and peppy (like you were supposed to jump up amd clap your hands), for distributing and receiving the Most Holy Sacrament. There was a close up of Pope Benedict and I swear it looked like he wished he had earplugs.:rolleyes:

I guess, it was an attempt to represent multi-cultural America. It sounded crazy though. They should have stuck with traditional Catholic and Latin hymns IMO.

Still was awesome though.🙂

Anyone know where I can find a record of the homily?
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Wow I just saw this thread glad I was not the only one. what got to me was the flute music (Iguess it was) sounded like a flute. It was so annoying and I thought for a sec it was going to continue the entire time The Pope was consecrating the bread and wine
 
aloysiusg said:
momoften - I just don’t believe that he is offended by it - it may not be his first choice - I get that, but it is entirely something else to say that it offends him - i just can’t believe he is that single-minded in this regard, especially since he has probably been witness to far more divergent displays of liturgy than we have.
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Al–the problem lies in your observation. What we saw as Catholics was nothing less than liturgical immolation to the gods of secular multiculturalism. There is no justification for what took place…none. It highlighted not Beauty and Truth and the timlessness of Liturgy and the Universality of the Faith, but rather the post modern gods of diversity and multiculturalism, and a reminder of our wounded separateness. It was an affectation of liturgy and not liturgical. I’ve attended Masses in a third world country where the simplicity of the music and the instruments and the chants emanated from the souls of the faithful and it was the most beautiful of offerings. I have been to the Vatican and witnessed the magnificence and splendor and solemnity of the Mass. But this was an affectation of liturgy and a surrender to a culture over the prayer of our souls.
 
Aloysius – (Love that name – it was my Dad’s Confirmation name:thumbsup: ) – Respectfully, many times I have had this discussion with those who approve of the new age of music heard at Catholic liturgies throughout America. – notice I said “heard at liturgies” and not “part of liturgies” – there is a great difference. To be a true part of a liturgy, the music must be part of the Mass prayer of the day, consistent with the theme thereof and composed specifically for a liturgical ritual within certain parameters.

All of these people who disagree always say “That is your opinion” or “You have your opinion, I have mine.” It is NOT opinion; it is the nature of the liturgy. You can violate that nature and superimpose songs that emanate from wild imaginings or from other “cultures,” but that does not make them “liturgical”; it makes them a wound to the liturgy and even to those who try to “make the liturgy better” or use the liturgy “for pastoral purposes to pull back the youth who are bored with the ‘old stuff’” or to “include those who feel alienated.”

Such music can never be part of the Holy Sacrifice. Like even the imperfect sacrifices of the ancient world, each act, each word, each lifting of the priest’s mind to God is coordinated so that it is one for one purpose. It is simple in its very being, the purpose of which is to fulfill the obligation of the person offering the sacrifice. Emotion has nothing to do with it; it has everything to do with the One to whom the sacrifice is offered. To bring in music that not only is not part of the theme of the day’s sacrifice but detracts from it is a sort of unnatural violence, created by man who is more conscious of himself than of the victim, the sacrifice, and the One to whom the sacrifice is being offered.

By the same measure, to put the words of the Mass to such music as perforce takes the hearer’s mind away from the offering is perhaps an even greater wound, a greater violence, since, whereas it does not compromise the theme itself, it destroys the bond that for the sacrifice to be maximally effectual must exist between the prayer of the priest and the prayer of the people.
 
Brownginger said:
Aloysius – (Love that name – it was my Dad’s Confirmation name:thumbsup: ) – Respectfully, many times I have had this discussion with those who approve of the new age of music heard at Catholic liturgies throughout America. – notice I said “heard at liturgies” and not “part of liturgies” – there is a great difference. To be a true part of a liturgy, the music must be part of the Mass prayer of the day, consistent with the theme thereof and composed specifically for a liturgical ritual within certain parameters.

All of these people who disagree always say “That is your opinion” or “You have your opinion, I have mine.” It is NOT opinion; it is the nature of the liturgy. You can violate that nature and superimpose songs that emanate from wild imaginings or from other “cultures,” but that does not make them “liturgical”; it makes them a wound to the liturgy and even to those who try to “make the liturgy better” or use the liturgy “for pastoral purposes to pull back the youth who are bored with the ‘old stuff’” or to “include those who feel alienated.”

Such music can never be part of the Holy Sacrifice. Like even the imperfect sacrifices of the ancient world, each act, each word, each lifting of the priest’s mind to God is coordinated so that it is one for one purpose. It is simple in its very being, the purpose of which is to fulfill the obligation of the person offering the sacrifice. Emotion has nothing to do with it; it has everything to do with the One to whom the sacrifice is offered. To bring in music that not only is not part of the theme of the day’s sacrifice but detracts from it is a sort of unnatural violence, created by man who is more conscious of himself than of the victim, the sacrifice, and the One to whom the sacrifice is being offered.

By the same measure, to put the words of the Mass to such music as perforce takes the hearer’s mind away from the offering is perhaps an even greater wound, a greater violence, since, whereas it does not compromise the theme itself, it destroys the bond that for the sacrifice to be maximally effectual must exist between the prayer of the priest and the prayer of the people.
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:clapping: :clapping: Thank you, you said exactly what I was thinking and feeling but could not put it into words!
 
I agree that the prayers and readings being in other languages than English are not really helping.
At least today on EWTN they are translating.
But, what it makes me feel like is that the other languages speakers are not learning English, and therefore need to be helped out…
In the USA I think English is our official language right?
well… the Mass at st Patrick’s today is very reverent.
 
peacefulpainter said:
I agree that the prayers and readings being in other languages than English are not really helping.
At least today on EWTN they are translating.
But, what it makes me feel like is that the other languages speakers are not learning English, and therefore need to be helped out…
In the USA I think English is our official language right?
well… the Mass at st Patrick’s today is very reverent.
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English is the official language of the USA. However, there is a long history of the Catholic Church in the USA using native tongue of the people gathered together (pre-VII the homily only, now the whole Mass). An excellent example of this is St. Joseph’s Catholic Church where the Pope had the ecumenical prayer service yesterday.
 
We seem to have reached an impasse I’m afraid. Oh well, I think it is time for me to move on. I pray nothing but the best for you all, and may you enjoy the rest of our Holy Father’s time here in the US.

Pax vobiscum,
Al
 
AdvanceAlways said:
Can none of you for one minute think about what we witnessed today!? The Holy Father was in our presence celebrating the Sacred Liturgy! Nothing is EVER good enough for some folks here. Can we not be grateful for what we witnessed!?

Was the music amazing? No.
Was God with us? Yes.

Many of us will never see this again, and will never again be part of something so awe inspiring.
Click to expand...
Finally, some perspective.

I was there as well. Many of my personal friends were involved in the music. I am no fan of multiculturalism myself, but I personally know the individuals tasked with planning this event. I wasn’t privy to the planning and have no first hand knowledge nor will I claim any, but they had a daunting task and it was approved by the Vatican. Not everything can be to everyone’s taste.

A band I was in was asked to perform at the White House once. We had to perform for President Clinton right after his “scandal” became known. It was universally the policy of our band we did not approve of what he did, but we had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play at the White House for the President and dignitaries. We jumped at the chance, it was a magnificent event and a day I will never forget.

Given the same parameters, I am sure many of you would have done the same. Even if you didn’t like the musical choices made, you have a chance to sing for the Holy Father. I doubt seriously you would have said no.

My sister and I went. We had a wonderful time. For all complaining about clapping, there wasn’t that much. If you think the Holy Father looked uncomfortable, I’ve seen him look that way before at St. Peters when he was baptizing people. Also, even under the canopy, the sun was beating down from the side on him.

Recall that he delivered part of his homily in Spanish.

I am reminded that Jesus heard several different languages and instruments as well. We know he spoke Aramaic and Hebrew. He probably knew Greek and at least heard some Latin. Based on Scriptures, he probably heard instruments ranging from lyre, harp, flute, drums and cymbals. During his time other instruments such as the hydraulis (a forerunner to the organ) were used by the Romans during festivals and probably even instruments similar to bagpipes were likely to be heard in his day as the bagpipes have origins in that part of the world.

It’s ridiculous to say that only one form of music is “right.” Music is a preference. The Holy Father likes Mozart. He’s never said, “Only Mozart, or else.” No Pope has said that Gregorian chant and the organ “must be used” period. It is “preferred” and it does have a high place of reverence in our faith because of tradition.

You are forgetting the focus. Did we or did we not celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? I sure did along with 47,000 other faithful (okay, except Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, but hey nobody’s perfect!). Everything else I can tune out.

Tom
 
Brownginger;3578131.:
By the same measure, to put the words of the Mass to such music as perforce takes the hearer’s mind away from the offering is perhaps an even greater wound, a greater violence, since, whereas it does not compromise the theme itself, it destroys the bond that for the sacrifice to be maximally effectual must exist between the prayer of the priest and the prayer of the people.
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👍
 
For me, the use of Spanish and other languages is not so much a matter of liturgy as it is political. But that is a whole different topic and for another day.
 
taocpa said:
Finally, some perspective.

I was there as well. Many of my personal friends were involved in the music. I am no fan of multiculturalism myself, but I personally know the individuals tasked with planning this event. I wasn’t privy to the planning and have no first hand knowledge nor will I claim any, but they had a daunting task and it was approved by the Vatican. Not everything can be to everyone’s taste.

A band I was in was asked to perform at the White House once. We had to perform for President Clinton right after his “scandal” became known. It was universally the policy of our band we did not approve of what he did, but we had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play at the White House for the President and dignitaries. We jumped at the chance, it was a magnificent event and a day I will never forget.

Given the same parameters, I am sure many of you would have done the same. Even if you didn’t like the musical choices made, you have a chance to sing for the Holy Father. I doubt seriously you would have said no.

My sister and I went. We had a wonderful time. For all complaining about clapping, there wasn’t that much. If you think the Holy Father looked uncomfortable, I’ve seen him look that way before at St. Peters when he was baptizing people. Also, even under the canopy, the sun was beating down from the side on him.

Recall that he delivered part of his homily in Spanish.

I am reminded that Jesus heard several different languages and instruments as well. We know he spoke Aramaic and Hebrew. He probably knew Greek and at least heard some Latin. Based on Scriptures, he probably heard instruments ranging from lyre, harp, flute, drums and cymbals. During his time other instruments such as the hydraulis (a forerunner to the organ) were used by the Romans during festivals and probably even instruments similar to bagpipes were likely to be heard in his day as the bagpipes have origins in that part of the world.

It’s ridiculous to say that only one form of music is “right.” Music is a preference. The Holy Father likes Mozart. He’s never said, “Only Mozart, or else.” No Pope has said that Gregorian chant and the organ “must be used” period. It is “preferred” and it does have a high place of reverence in our faith because of tradition.

You are forgetting the focus. Did we or did we not celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? I sure did along with 47,000 other faithful (okay, except Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, but hey nobody’s perfect!). Everything else I can tune out.

Tom
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No one is faulting the singers for jumping at the chance to take part in a Papal Mass. I would too!🙂 We are simply pointing out that the musical SELECTION was innapropriate for certain parts of the Mass. I don’t understand why this same point needs to be clarified over and over again.

And the fact that it was a tremendous occasion and blessing to have the Pope preside over Mass, does not contradict the opinion held by many that the musical selection was innapropriate.

I can love the Holy Father, love that he has come to the United States, be excited that so many Americans were able to receive Communion in one place, that Jesus is present in the Eucharist in every Mass, and STILL hold the opinion that the music during communion was not appropriate. It is also an opinion that is shared by our current Pope. One does not have to be at the exclusion of the other.

If you all don’t like my opinion so be it. I think the music that was innapropriate for Communion would have been very lovely and beautiful at an ecumenical prayer service, or a lively prayer meeting, or even in my car or home on the radio. But if something is DISTRACTING and HINDERING proper reverance and devotion during the reception of the Blessed Sacrament … oh nevermind. I agree with Al, this has reached an impasse.😊 I’m just repeating myself, because since the Pope was here, ANYTHING goes, and we have no right to have an opinion about any part of the Mass, or suddenly we don’t appreciate that the Pope was here.

I APPRECIATE THAT THE POPE WAS HERE. I APPRECIATE THAT THOSE WHO WERE INVITED TO PERFORM AND ATTEND WERE VERY BLESSED. I APPRECIATE THE REVERANCE OF THOSE PARTICIPATING. I DID NOT APPRECIATE THE HORRIBLY INNAPROPRIATE MUSIC DURING COMMUNION.

You can say I am missing the beauty of the event all you want. It is simply not true. I did and do see the beauty of the event, in SPITE of the music. I don’t know how many other ways I can say it, but I am sure someone following, will come along and point out that those that didn’t like the music also didn’t appreciate the Pope here celebrating Mass. That is a blanket and sweeping statement that is not automatically implied by a dislike of the music selection. It is an attempt to muddy the water and obscure the fact that the music selection was faulty, ill timed, and inconsiderate of the Popes clear attempts at clarifying what music is considered appropriate for our Sacred Liturgy.
 
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