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Alex337
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You seem to be forgetting transmen quite a bit in all this.
Parents’ ‘Sex Ed Sit Out’ Protesting Forced Gender Ideology in Schools Spreads Across Country
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ConfusedLucy
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Because they don’t seem to be trying to aggressively redefine what it means to be a real man in the same way. Men aren’t being bullied into redefining what it means to be male by women in anything like the way women are by men.
It’s like you have this category of men who are a well established group who have been dominant for most of human history and you have non-men who are anyone not seen as a man. Men who don’t conform to the male gender are now non-men, women who don’t conform to the female gender aren’t man enough so are still non-men and of course women are non-men.
Women are more than non-men. We have our own identity.
It’s like you have this category of men who are a well established group who have been dominant for most of human history and you have non-men who are anyone not seen as a man. Men who don’t conform to the male gender are now non-men, women who don’t conform to the female gender aren’t man enough so are still non-men and of course women are non-men.
Women are more than non-men. We have our own identity.
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Alex337
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Transmen still face issues of people not accepting their manhood. You don’t for instance.
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Alex337
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Though many men (Many of them feminists) are perfectly happy to accept transmen as men.
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ConfusedLucy
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As a heterosexual woman when I want a man I want a man, you cant force people to see you a certain way.
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Alex337
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You see how you are the one choosing to define this person as a non-man?
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Alex337
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Also, another person’s identity isn’t about what you want.
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ConfusedLucy
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It also isn’t about what they want, It’s a combination.
Look at all those tone deaf people who audition on TV, they probably have an identity in their heads that they are talented undiscovered singers, it doesn’t mean the world has to see them that way.
Look at all those tone deaf people who audition on TV, they probably have an identity in their heads that they are talented undiscovered singers, it doesn’t mean the world has to see them that way.
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Alex337
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A person’s gender is actually quite defined by how they view themselves. After all it seems you are fine with viewing a man with a penis as a woman.
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OsculeturMeOsculo
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That makes sense.
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Pup7
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I disagree. Of course there is: the state of being born female. The only people who know what it is like to grow up as a girl - are females. I’m not qualified to say I know the male experience just as they are not qualified to say they know mine.
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Alex337
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As I already said; every person’s childhood is unique. What precise experienced makes one have a childhood that means they’re a woman?Alex337:
I disagree. Of course there is: the state of being born female. The only people who know what it is like to grow up as a girl - are females. I’m not qualified to say I know the male experience just as they are not qualified to say they know mine.
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Pup7
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Gee - being a girl in and of itself isn’t enough to characterize a childhood as a female experience?
That’s ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
No matter where I went or what I did, I was reacted to - and still am - as a woman, a girl, a female member of the species. To say that simply being female my whole life doesn’t make my experience “uniquely female” is incredible. Men no more know what it’s like to grow up as a girl than I know what it’s like to grow up as a male.
Being female is the precise experience. Growing up and being related to as a female from day one is the precise experience. Interacting with the world as a female from birth is the experience. How I was reacted to and treated was far different from that of my male counterparts - and I don’t see how that isn’t obvious.
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Alex337
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No, it’s exceptionally vague.Alex337:
Gee - being a girl in and of itself isn’t enough to characterize a childhood as a female experience?
That’s ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
No matter where I went or what I did, I was reacted to - and still am - as a woman, a girl, a female member of the species. To say that simply being female my whole life doesn’t make my experience “uniquely female” is incredible. Men no more know what it’s like to grow up as a girl than I know what it’s like to grow up as a male.
Being female is the precise experience. Growing up and being related to as a female from day one is the precise experience. Interacting with the world as a female from birth is the experience. How I was reacted to and treated was far different from that of my male counterparts - and I don’t see how that isn’t obvious.
A transwoman interacts with the world as a girl from childhood quite often, simply one who many others deny the gender of. Though in some instances parents will raise a child in a more neutral environment.
And for that matter I’m still not sure that childhood experiences should completely define such a thing. I know you mentioned the experience of being American as an example earlier. I was born and raised in Australia, but my adopted grandparents were all immigrants; they’re still very much Australian. They simply had a different childhood to me.
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Pup7
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You’re missing the point here.
You cannot know what living as the other sex is like because you are not the other sex. It’s like saying someone knows how it is to live as a wheelchair bound person because they’ve spent a week in a wheelchair.
No, they don’t - they haven’t a clue. To pretend one does is a bit disingenuous.
You cannot know what living as the other sex is like because you are not the other sex. It’s like saying someone knows how it is to live as a wheelchair bound person because they’ve spent a week in a wheelchair.
No, they don’t - they haven’t a clue. To pretend one does is a bit disingenuous.
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Alex337
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It is indeed a commitment to transition. I suspect that is part of the reason the very word “transition” implies a process, not a simple flip. Trans* folks take years learning how to live as the gender they know themselves to be and I fully suspect some trans* folk out there know far more about what society assumes women do than I do, and has potentially dealt with far more of society treating them as a woman than I have (we have a transwoman in my town who is in deep cover who transitioned before I was born; she’s lived as a woman longer than I have).
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Pup7
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Which means they did not have a childhood as their trans gender, doesn’t it?
It has to - because the alternative is impossible. There is no such thing as a neutral upbringing. And I’m not talking about buying little girls cars and little boys baby dolls. You are male, you have a specific experience as a male. You are female, you have your specific experience as a female - regardless of where you grow up.
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Alex337
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What is that specific experience?Alex337:
Which means they did not have a childhood as their trans gender, doesn’t it?
It has to - because the alternative is impossible. There is no such thing as a neutral upbringing. And I’m not talking about buying little girls cars and little boys baby dolls. You are male, you have a specific experience as a male. You are female, you have your specific experience as a female - regardless of where you grow up.
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Pup7
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Being female! Holy smokes.
What about that do you not get? That one’s social construct and experience is heavily and obviously influenced by what sex you are? That’s basic sociology. And I do mean basic.
I’m no expert but I have a double major in my first BS degree in psych and sociology. It’s been a while but I do remember the basics.
What about that do you not get? That one’s social construct and experience is heavily and obviously influenced by what sex you are? That’s basic sociology. And I do mean basic.
I’m no expert but I have a double major in my first BS degree in psych and sociology. It’s been a while but I do remember the basics.
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Alex337
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I don’t mean to be annoying but this is a real question; what facet was so universal between all “women” childhoods as you cross boundaries of age, country, culture and everything else? That is so unique and quintessential that decades of living as a woman somehow doesn’t “make up” for its lack?
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