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vern_humphrey
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Our little Catholic church has an organ – but we don’t have anyone who can play it. If we didn’t have guitars, we’d have no music at all.
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VociMike
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Let’s also be aware of why they are on the endangered species list. It’s because the progressive element decided that “the spirit of Vatican II” required that organs be abandoned, even ripped out. Even when the actual documents of Vatican II stated “In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things.”
Imagine how much different the situation would be today if people had just followed the actual text of Vatican II.
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JButky
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elliotfc
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I’ve PLAYED accordion masses before. Don’t knock it. My playing brings people to tears.You guys are being way to hard on the bassoon, After all, it’s not an accordian!
Joe B
Funny thing…or maybe it ain’t funny, whatever…whenever I’m pedaling of the organ I just imagine myself playing the keyboard on the accordion. Which probably explains why I’ve achieved the heights of mediocrity that I have on the organ.
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vern_humphrey
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Yer all a bunch a Sassenach amadans. The only holy instrument is the piob mor.
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JButky
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JButky
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I’m rather fond of the pipes me-self.The only holy instrument is the piob mor.
Joe B
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vern_humphrey
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We’ll have a drop o’ th’ craythure and play a slip-jig or two.
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brotherhrolf
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But there is hope! Ours got ripped out in 67 and replaced in 92 and we’ve not looked back. And we sing from a proper choir loft. We’re not the center of attraction! And hey, my music reading ability leaves a lot to be desired. I can sorta/kinda read music but in the final analysis I memorize my part. If cassette tapes work for my cathedral choir, they can work for any parish choir. Practice, practice, practice.
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brotherhrolf
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Vern, we have a Celtic choir here in Baton Rouge. If they didn’t sing at the same time I do, I’d have joint choir membership.We’ll have a drop o’ th’ craythure and play a slip-jig or two.
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vern_humphrey
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I was raised in Lake Charles in my early days – I still remember the Kilties of MacNeese College (now MacNeese University.)Vern, we have a Celtic choir here in Baton Rouge. If they didn’t sing at the same time I do, I’d have joint choir membership.
We have no pipe band here in Mountain View, Arkansas, but Lyon College in the next county does.
On the other hand, Mountain View bills itself as “The Folk Music Capitol of the World” – and all authentic American folk music is Irish and Scots. So you hear a lot of Irish fiddling and tin whistle.
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elliotfc
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The most holy instrument would be the instrument with the most holes…I guess that would be the pipe organ.Yer all a bunch a Sassenach amadans. The only holy instrument is the piob mor.
There goes my crusade against organs in churches!
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mirandajb
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Way to go!!! Drums can also be played reverentially. God is to be worshiped with all our mind, heart, soul and all our strength.
Keep the drums off consecration though, otherwise I think it is great. It should be a worship of the congregation not just a choir ‘performing’ - surely God does not want that of His people. Look at the Churches in Europe and the West - they are empty. Whereas Churches in Asia play lively (yet reverential music) and boy - they are packed. It also gets the youth in for Mass at least. It no good playing the good ol’ pipe organ and everyone is sleeping during Mass. At least the drums will wake them up!!
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VociMike
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One of the fundamental requirements for Catholic sacred music is that the music is to be in service to the text. Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony are the most highly esteemed forms of Catholic sacred music in very large part because they embody so well this service of music to the text.
Drums, in their role of enforcing a beat, go precisely against this fundamental requirement. The music becomes the focus, the skeleton, the regulating principle, and the text is then bolted onto the skeleton as best it can be fit, which always requires mucking around with the text.
When you hear some liturgical music that doesn’t sound right, there’s a very good chance that the composer has forsaken the maxim that the music is to be in service to the text, and has instead forced the text to be in service to the music. It’s not what the Church teaches, and it results in music that is unsuitable for Catholic liturgy.
Drums, in their role of enforcing a beat, go precisely against this fundamental requirement. The music becomes the focus, the skeleton, the regulating principle, and the text is then bolted onto the skeleton as best it can be fit, which always requires mucking around with the text.
When you hear some liturgical music that doesn’t sound right, there’s a very good chance that the composer has forsaken the maxim that the music is to be in service to the text, and has instead forced the text to be in service to the music. It’s not what the Church teaches, and it results in music that is unsuitable for Catholic liturgy.
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catholic2
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The Psalms written by David were meant to be sung. If you examine David’s fervor in the psalms and how he was such a good instrumentalist, and his sometimes wild abandonment in giving praise to the Lord, you might hear a joyful “noise”. In the psalms, David would even specify the tune and instruments which did not exclude drum-like instruments and strings, and might have included a shofar perhaps.
Scripture also mentions that Jesus sang, and he more than likely sang like David, since David was a man after God’s own heart. Seems to me that if Jesus would today walk into one of our Masses that if we were quieted down and not allowed to give expression to explosive joy, the very tiles would sing out!
Scripture also mentions that Jesus sang, and he more than likely sang like David, since David was a man after God’s own heart. Seems to me that if Jesus would today walk into one of our Masses that if we were quieted down and not allowed to give expression to explosive joy, the very tiles would sing out!
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elliotfc
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Drums are darn near crucial for tight ensemble playing, particularly when musicians are spread out and have speakers pointed in different directions. Thinking of them this way they are a means to an end.
There is something from JPII on this, follow this link, all the way at the bottom…
usccb.org/liturgy/innews/03042003.shtml
The late Pope mentions Psalm 150, where we are commanded to praise the Lord in his sanctuary, with tambourines and cymbals and dancing and all that.
The Mass…if it was only a sacrifice…would be a lot shorter. We would only need the Eucharistic Prayers, consecration, and distribution. There is a place in the Mass for a variety things…because the Mass is a variety of things.
In my years of playing with ensembles incorporating drums, my only complaint is that the song selection during communion, and the ways the songs are played, can be quite aggressive.
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brotherhrolf
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Speakers? Perish the thought! The very thought of being “miked” is anathema to me. We have a twenty-five voice cathedral choir and we are a very tight vocal ensemble because we a) listen very closely to each other, b) have absolutely no need for drums or speakers because we listen closely to each other and c) we practice, practice, practice - three hours a week of practice.
We have a brass quartet and tympani that accompanies the choir on feast days such as Christmas, Easter, Pentecost, Corpus Christi, etc. But they “accompany” the choir. And, no (to answer the inevitable question), we have four paid professional section leaders - all the rest of us are parishoners with a wide variety of talents. I’m a good solid chorister but don’t ask me to sing solo.
Drums are not necessary when the choir sticks to Gregorian Chant and Sacred Polyphony. Even during the Renaissance when Gabrielli and Monteverdi were writing magnificent polyphonic works, drums were not essential to ensemble singing - even with multiple choirs in various parts of the church.
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VociMike
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Is it the opinion of everyone who brings up the psalms as an excuse for drums et. al. that the Church for 2000 years never noticed them?
Or could you all perhaps be errant in your private interpretation of their meaning as it relates to the liturgy of the Church?
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CarrieH
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You are blessed with a talented and well-disciplined group as well as a decent acoustic. Not all of us are so lucky. The acoustics in our parish church are abysmal. The room is deader than a doornail and “eats” sound, partly because of the way that it was designed, but also because it is carpeted throughout. We have no choir loft, so the choir is located in the left front corner of the church. Those who stand farthest from the piano have trouble hearing it, and they are at relatively close range. Fortunately we have a decent sound system, but a room such as ours would be impossible to deal with minus the microphones. The only good thing is that the screams of the fussy babies don’t carry very well, either!
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JButky
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That’s going a bit far… One does not “need” drums for tight ensembles. Drums are merely a different instrument in an ensemble A good drummer cannot fix bad ensemble playing… There are many excellent ensembles that do not use drums and there are no problems with the tightness of the ensemble.
Joe B
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