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Podo2004
Guest
Stop living in the past and get use to it. And I will do everything to make sure the new mass stays. And try to convince others in this world not to go to the TLM.
Podo
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Podo
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Kielbasi
Guest
People do need to get used to it, because it isn’t going to change. At least not in our lifetimes.
When the church made the big switcheroo to the English mass from the Latin, millions of Catholics never went back. A relative few went out of their ways to breakaway Latin masses or indults, but most, the vast majority just slipped off the radar. People just don’t care for change in religious practice.
Scratching the English mass, now that its been established for such a long time, would drive numerous others, perhaps millions ago out of the pews.
I don’t think the church is ready for that kind of disruption again, anytime soon.
When the church made the big switcheroo to the English mass from the Latin, millions of Catholics never went back. A relative few went out of their ways to breakaway Latin masses or indults, but most, the vast majority just slipped off the radar. People just don’t care for change in religious practice.
Scratching the English mass, now that its been established for such a long time, would drive numerous others, perhaps millions ago out of the pews.
I don’t think the church is ready for that kind of disruption again, anytime soon.
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IrenkaJMJ
Guest
Podo-did you know that the pope has instituted apostolates that only sayTLM? His Holiness obviously feels that TLM is something that should be preserved. The Church is universal, there is room for all. Don’t let a few hotheads get you pulled into a “us vs. them” mentality.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
A) Thank you, you’ve told me something of which I was not aware.
B) Doctors? What do they know? Saint Bencipius of Capadolociapithica very clearly states in his “On the Use of Dairy Products by Consecrated Virgins” that yogurt is forbidden, as it involves fermentation. This was held up as true teaching by the Council of Basilhaubrau in the 5th Century.
I hope, dear friend, that you have not fallen into the schismatic error of the Yogurtarians, which which was condemned by the same council.
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katolik
Guest
No one is living in the past. Tradition is always living, and it is not dead, but it is bound by rigourous rules.
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katolik
Guest
The “English Mass” now only has about 9 million Catholics[out of 60] going to Mass each Sunday. The TLM had over 1500 years of Tradition behind it, while the Novus Ordo was composed by a committee in the 1960’s. The loss of the Novus Ordo would not be a big one, except that the liberals would run away to form “Liberal Catholic” churches or join the anglicans. The Faithful Catholics would stay and rejoice that the liberals have ran away. I also think that the TLM would return some of those of post Vatican II refugees,since many of them are still alive…
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Franciscum
Guest
You are wrong.
First, the 9 million number is laughable. Care to cite any believeable sources? I would guess the number is closer to 55 out of 60M.
Second, the “English Mass” (as you put it) is in no way unique to the USA.
The “tlm” is certainly less than 1500 years old. I suggest you pick-up a book.
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Podo2004
Guest
The Novus Ordo is just bringing back some good stuff before the TLM and if it were to die, i don’t know what i would do. I prefer it in english because i can understand it and there are better things in the mass. I am not liberal. Come On katolik, your head can’t be that stuck in the past. Who cares if it had 1500 years of tradtion? They changed it for a reason to have a better mass. Have you ever been or served at a Novus Ordo, one that is truly reverant and joyful? It is truly amazing… many tradtionlists have come to our parish and were amazed.
Podo
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Podo2004
Guest
yes that’s true that the TLM is younger than 1500 years…whoops
Podo
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Franciscum
Guest
You are wrong.
The Catholic Church has shown growth in the USA every year since the prommulgation of the Novus Ordo Mass – including the year it replaced the “tlm.”
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OrthoCath
Guest
Franciscum,
Usted entiende
omhrc.gov/haa/HAA2pg/AboutHAA1a.htm
Yes, that is what millions of Mexicans jumping the border will do to your numbers.
Usted entiende
omhrc.gov/haa/HAA2pg/AboutHAA1a.htm
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Kielbasi
Guest
55 million of 60 million Catholics in attendance at mass each week, franciscum?
That’s over 90%, I find that number to be incredible. That’s virtually everyone, figuring the number of sick who are unable to attend make up the majority of the remaining 8%.
That’s over 90%, I find that number to be incredible. That’s virtually everyone, figuring the number of sick who are unable to attend make up the majority of the remaining 8%.
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Franciscum
Guest
Kielbasi said:
When they attend the liturgy, I would guess 55 of 60M attend the Novus Ordo Mass. The rest attend the “tlm” and the various Eastern Catholic liturgies…
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Franciscum
Guest
Talk about a scummy comment. Now that’s you’ve shown yourself to be an bigot, I can simply ignore your postings.
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DominvsVobiscvm
Guest
There was absolutely nothing bigoted about that comment. It’s an objective fact.
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Kielbasi
Guest
55 of 60 million attend the n.o. WHEN they attend?
I’m sorry, I understand you now, franciscum.
Actually, l think that’s understated. Its more like 99% or more than 59 million out of 60 million on that basis. Just a tad over 200 parishes in the US have the tlm, out of a bit more than 20000 total parishes. (1 percent, more or less).
But the fact that many more people aren’t in regular attendance at mass, much more so than in the 60s, and staying home, is a problem which is attributed by some, and in part , to the huge amount of changability in the mass which occurred with the advent of the n.o.
I’m sorry, I understand you now, franciscum.
Actually, l think that’s understated. Its more like 99% or more than 59 million out of 60 million on that basis. Just a tad over 200 parishes in the US have the tlm, out of a bit more than 20000 total parishes. (1 percent, more or less).
But the fact that many more people aren’t in regular attendance at mass, much more so than in the 60s, and staying home, is a problem which is attributed by some, and in part , to the huge amount of changability in the mass which occurred with the advent of the n.o.
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pgoings
Guest
While it is true that bishops in various dioceses often have a (desparate) need for priests to staff parishes where the normative rite is used, I believe that those who have been ordained into the various traditionalist orders (FSSP, ICR) have canonical protection against being compelled to use the normative rite against their will.
Of course, a bishop certainly could ask one of these priests to offer Mass in one of his vacant parishes, reasoning that it would be better for them to assist at the 1962 Mass (even if they preferred the normative rite) rather than having no Mass at all.
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Patrick2340
Guest
The Institute of Christ the King, the Fraternity of St. Peter, and the Society of St. John Vianney are not diocesan priests. The ICR and FSSP are priestly societies. Their priests do not report to a particular bishop. Their priests are not trained to celebrate the Novus Ordo Missae. They are only trained to celebrate Mass according to the Missal of 1962. The SSJV is an apostolic administration that reports to Bishop Rifan. Bishop Rifan is a “traditional” bishop. He has never celebrated a Novus Ordo Missae, nor have any of his priests.
All three groups are growing in vocations. The local ordinary of a diocese with an indult Mass celebrated by a priest of these particular societies cannot simply move a priest from the FSSP to a local parish and direct him to begin celebrating the Novus Ordo. The only thing he can do is to revoke permission for the indult Mass and drive the priest out of his diocese. Such an action would seem counterproductive when priestly vocations are declining.
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AmyS
Guest
Ugh, Satan sure is proud of all the bickering going on here… We are talking about small “t” traditions, not big “T” traditions… You take either one of these masses away than you are going to alienate a group of Catholics… Remember, again, that it is about the Eucharist… Satan loves to you beauty to entice people. Don’t forget why we are Catholic…
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katolik
Guest
I would not dare say that about 90% of Catholics in the USA attend Mass each week. The number of Catholics who attend Mass on each sundat in the USA is about 10-20% or about 6-12 million. The Traditional Latin Mass does have over 1500 years of Tradition behind it.
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