Please explain differences in Masses

[AmyS]

katolik:

I would not dare say that about 90% of Catholics in the USA attend Mass each week. The number of Catholics who attend Mass on each sundat in the USA is about 10-20% or about 6-12 million. The Traditional Latin Mass does have over 1500 years of Tradition behind it.

1500 years before it existed you are trying to say…

 

[katolik]

Podo2004:

The Novus Ordo is just bringing back some good stuff before the TLM and if it were to die, i don’t know what i would do. I prefer it in english because i can understand it and there are better things in the mass. I am not liberal. Come On katolik, your head can’t be that stuck in the past. Who cares if it had 1500 years of tradtion? They changed it for a reason to have a better mass. Have you ever been or served at a Novus Ordo, one that is truly reverant and joyful? It is truly amazing… many tradtionlists have come to our parish and were amazed.
Podo

Sir,
I had attended the NO Mass for a while before my discovery of Tradition. I attended the NO last wednesday… You can say the NO is a better Mass because it changed some things[because this is just an opinion] but please do tell me something concrete about the prayers of the TLM and how they were improved with the NO. The prayers themselves! not your feelings.

 

[katolik]

AmyS:

1500 years before it existed you are trying to say…

The “Tridentine” Mass was just codified in the 16th century. The elements of the Mass are much older. The Canon of the Mass[TLM] is over 1600 years old. The readings of the TLM have been the same for the last 1500 years,except for new feasts… There’s much more but I am meagre in my knowledge of this.

 

[katolik]

Franciscum:

You are wrong.

The Catholic Church has shown growth in the USA every year since the prommulgation of the Novus Ordo Mass – including the year it replaced the “tlm.”

Are the empty parishes and seminaries proof of this?

 

[jimmy]

Podo2004:

I realise that and i’m not one of them…
(sigh) misericordie if you actually went to a new mass(that doesn’t include what you mentioned above) then you might think before saying stuff like that.
Podo
GOD BLESS THE NOVUS ORDO MASS!!!

I have been to both the NO mass and the Tridentine mass. I have been to several different NO churches, some good some not so good. I think I have seen the best the NO has. My conclusion is that the Tridentine is far better. I love it. It is much fuller. Just because the NO is new does not mean it is better.

I really suggest you attend a Tridentine before you condemn it like you do. It is the most beautiful mass, the Byzantine Liturgy is also very beautiful.

 

[jimmy]

Podo2004:

Ahh well, just to let you know that i don’t really care if you laugh when i say Beautiful and Reverent mass because i know im right(probably will make you laugh again but then again you laugh for stupid reasons so…)anyways the fact that you can’t spell makes it even more funnier… if the TLM is really Beutiful then the No. Mass is Beautiful.
Podo

Podo this is the funniest post I have seen yet. Did you realize that you did this immediately after you told miseriecordae he couldn’t spell?

I suggest again, attend a Tridentine before you make the judgement.

 

[jimmy]

AmyS:

I have tried to be nice to you and give you the benefit of the doubt, but, I realize more and more what a hypocrate you can be… I asked one time if you where SSPX and you where pretty offended by that… It was a generalization that probably wasn’t fair… You tend to generalize about NO masses constantly. You just don’t get it. What would you do if your TLM mass wasn’t okayed? Would you become SSPX, my guess is yes… It isn’t about the Church for you it is about the style.

Although I would never leave the church, I think the church has an obligation to keep the Tridentine alive. It is such a beautiful and reverent liturgy.

 

[jimmy]

Franciscum:

Very good posting. My point is that the tlm would be doing a whole lot better if those we associate with it were not so extreme and in many times just pain ignorant.

Do you think the FSSP (an excellent organization) would want to be associated with some of the “trads” (and their opinions) that are posted here? I think not.

When all is said and done, the growth of the tlm is tiny compared to that of the entire Latin Rite…

The growth is tiny for a couple reasons.

1st, there are far more people who go to the NO mass, so naturaly the growth would be greater. If you think about it it makes complete sense.

2nd, they are being kept from growing. There are many diocese that do not allow the tlm.

Now, if you think in terms of percent growth, I would say that the tlm is much greater. The latin rite is not growing very fast. The tlm probably has a much higher percent increase.

 

[AmyS]

jimmy:

Although I would never leave the church, I think the church has an obligation to keep the Tridentine alive. It is such a beautiful and reverent liturgy.

I agree, but, some people seem to care more about traditions than Traditions… I mentioned before that we are blessed to practice our faith openly in a church instead of secretly in some basement. I keep bring the focus back on the Eucharist, that is where it is supposed to be. And, if you focus on that both masses are beautiful.

 

[AmyS]

katolik:

The “Tridentine” Mass was just codified in the 16th century. The elements of the Mass are much older. The Canon of the Mass[TLM] is over 1600 years old. The readings of the TLM have been the same for the last 1500 years,except for new feasts… There’s much more but I am meagre in my knowledge of this.

But, all Masses where not said in Latin before the Tridentine Mass… I realize it has been around for many more years than NO… It is truly beautiful… But, Masses where said in the language of the people before that too.

 

[jimmy]

Kielbasi:

Whether or not the new English mass was a “mistake” or not, that’s what we have today. That’s what we’ll , without a doubt , continue to have.

Most people who are in attendance like it the way it is. Those who don’t quit attending a long time ago, and even if Latin were brought back they wouldn’t know it anyhow. Either that or they’re dead by now, the Latin mass was discontinued over 30 years ago.

As far as the “indult” mass, for those who are devoted to it and don’t mind the travel to different churches and chapels, I guess its o.k., although I strongly suspect that the indult masses will become less available in the future.

Most dioceses will not be able to afford to take the priests away from parish work to provide this option, as the average age of priests is quite high and many will be retiring in the next few years with a relative few replacements.

It seems though that the younger bishops are more traditional and may help the return of the tlm.

 

[AmyS]

jimmy:

It seems though that the younger bishops are more traditional and may help the return of the tlm.

A lot of the younger priest are too… although I guess the bishops have more power. I don’t think it will all return to tlm, why should it. But, Mass might get more traditional… more liturgical, and exact, they might require more reverance… In all masses TLM and NOM included.

 

[jimmy]

AmyS:

A lot of the younger priest are too… although I guess the bishops have more power. I don’t think it will all return to tlm, why should it. But, Mass might get more traditional… more liturgical, and exact, they might require more reverance… In all masses TLM and NOM included.

When I said the younger bishops I was including the younger preists.

There are many orthodox Catholic preists who would love to say the tridentine but they can’t because there bishops will not allow it. An example is a preist here at Penn State would love to and he has said so, but his bishop won’t allow any tridentines.

I think as the younger preists move up the ranks, thye will become more sympathetic to the tlm and allow it more. This will allow it to grow.

 

[misericordie]

jimmy:

When I said the younger bishops I was including the younger preists.

There are many orthodox Catholic preists who would love to say the tridentine but they can’t because there bishops will not allow it. An example is a preist here at Penn State would love to and he has said so, but his bishop won’t allow any tridentines.

I think as the younger preists move up the ranks, thye will become more sympathetic to the tlm and allow it more. This will allow it to grow.

I am in total agreement with you on this.  AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just spoke to a younger Bishop here in the USA today. He is sympathetic to TLM. GREAT archbishop too.

 

[AmyS]

jimmy:

When I said the younger bishops I was including the younger preists.

There are many orthodox Catholic preists who would love to say the tridentine but they can’t because there bishops will not allow it. An example is a preist here at Penn State would love to and he has said so, but his bishop won’t allow any tridentines.

I think as the younger preists move up the ranks, thye will become more sympathetic to the tlm and allow it more. This will allow it to grow.

I wasn’t correcting you, I hope you didn’t feel I was. I think it will grow… I think the Catholic Church is going to grow in general… I just don’t see the need for good NOM to die…

 

[jimmy]

AmyS:

I wasn’t correcting you, I hope you didn’t feel I was. I think it will grow… I think the Catholic Church is going to grow in general… I just don’t see the need for good NOM to die…

I didn’t feel like you were correcting me, I was just stating that I was including the preists in my statement.

I don’t necisarily think that the NO needs to die. There are some NO masses that are good. I feel that the tlm is a better expression of the faith though, and I would love to see it grow to atleast the point where it would be easily accesable and everyone could get to one.

I believe it is the most beautiful mass there is.

 

[AmyS]

jimmy:

I didn’t feel like you were correcting me, I was just stating that I was including the preists in my statement.

I don’t necisarily think that the NO needs to die. There are some NO masses that are good. I feel that the tlm is a better expression of the faith though, and I would love to see it grow to atleast the point where it would be easily accesable and everyone could get to one.

I believe it is the most beautiful mass there is.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Podo2004]

jimmy:

Podo this is the funniest post I have seen yet. Did you realize that you did this immediately after you told miseriecordae he couldn’t spell?

I suggest again, attend a Tridentine before you make the judgement.

No need i prefer modern things anyway, and BTW I wouldn’t understand the tridentine mass because it’s in latin so how can I enjoy it? I’ve read about and prefer the new one.
Podo

 

[Podo2004]

jimmy:

Although I would never leave the church, I think the church has an obligation to keep the Tridentine alive. It is such a beautiful and reverent liturgy.

Like the No.Mass which is beautiful and reverant
Podo

 

[Kielbasi]

Maybe many priests would like to say the Latin mass, but the bishops know that the vast majority of the people don’t want to attend Latin mass.

Most Catholics today were born after the English mass was promulgated. Of those who remember the Latin mass, most are now used to the English mass and don’t want change after 35 years or so of English.

Maybe in the long run, going back to Latin might be a great thing, but in the short term it will definitely irritate some of the people and cause a dip in attendance at mass.