Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

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chero23 said:
I know there’s a thread about guns and background checks.

But this is my question to you, if someone buys a gun and gets cleared with the back ground check. That person is then deemed as a fine person to own a gun. Sorta of like this guy.

But, when a situation breaks out and they go on a rampage, that “fine” person label is taken away and they bring up things from their past. Theirs a flaw in the system and it has to be fixed.

We had 50 today, one day, that number is going to double, triple, quadruple and were going to just go in circles.
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So what exactly should be done?
 
Lea101 said:
I agree that it’s not an immediate solution and would be effective after quite some time.

But that doesn’t mean we should just leave it. As of now, maybe background checks, renewing current license, safety training, etc would be appropriate. Basically make it harder to get your hands on one (mental health checks, etc). Security should also be stepped up. Not easy, of course, but there’s too many cases of gun violence for us to just shrug it off and act like it is beyond our control! This is a tragedy and a lot of Americans are acting like the gun laws has 0 correlation with the rate of gun violence.

Some change needs to happen before any of us lose our loved ones due to violence
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Still, even if all that is in place, the criminal does not care about the law, if they want a gun, they can find one, no matter what law is in place, Heroin has been illegal for a long time and plenty of laws against it, even tough new laws, but you can still buy it everywhere, so…what have these laws accomplished? Basically just ensure there is a blackmarket.
 
mikekle said:
Uh, the founding fathers saw this as the best way to prevent tyranny, (that citizens should have access to same grade of weapons as govt), and now we see our Govt desiring to change this…GEE, I wonder why they would want to do something like that? LOL

But I doubt even the founding fathers could have foreseen the complexity of our modern Govt and their plan to ‘brainwash’ the population into almost inviting tyranny, and giving up their guns willingly…this is what these mass shootings are doing imo. Govt is using them to fool people into taking their side on the gun issue.

If they do this for long enough, they will never need to go door to door to confiscate guns, most people will be ‘conditioned’ enough to hand over their guns willingly!!!

Its amazing what they have accomplished if you think about it.
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The 2nd amendment was put in because of the fear of the British trying to take over.

Look at Switzerland, most of their individuals have guns, but we don’t hear mass shootings at public or private places.

We do need stricter gun laws, and I know someone will say look at Chicago. True, but Look at Columbine, look at Sandy Hook, look at Waco and the biker’s shootout, look at Orlando, look at California 2015 right before Christmas.

Chicago is just a bad place, that is the exception.
 
mikekle said:
Still, even if all that is in place, the criminal does not care about the law, if they want a gun, they can find one, no matter what law is in place, Heroin has been illegal for a long time and plenty of laws against it, even tough new laws, but you can still buy it everywhere, so…what have these laws accomplished? Basically just ensure there is a blackmarket.
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But how many in the police and government are associated with that. We have high degree of specialty, sources to bust these guys. And they don’t, why do you think that is?

Because they get $$$
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
So what exactly should be done?
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Thats easy, go to the source of the violence…in this case, its Islamic terrorism and they view as the ‘great satan’.

Trying to ‘regulate away’ terrorism by changing weapons laws is a goofy and foolish way to go about stopping terrorism imo.

That would be like them trying to stop DUIs by making laws against drunk people buying gas.
 
I see gun control as more of a pragmatic issue than anything else; I know there are rights involved as well, but the 1st amendment doesn’t automatically over-ride pragmatic safety considerations, there’s the whole idea that the 1st amendment doesn’t justify “crying out fire in a crowded theater”, and last I checked, “freedom of speech” doesn’t mean you can get away with calling in a fake bomb threat to 911. If the 1st amendment isn’t absolute, I don’t see any reason the 2nd amendment should be, either.

However, I also think that gun control is not really the main strategy to trust when addressing actual acts of terrorism such as this one. I don’t know details about gun control laws in France or Belgium, but I assume they are stricter than US laws, yet that certainly didn’t prevent the gun attacks that happened there. The greatest terrorist attack on US soil didn’t involve any guns at all.
 
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. It’s as simple as that. What’s more, an active shooter out for blood isn’t going to say, “oh, gun-free zone, guess I’ll surrender!”

Those who say the government won’t take away guns need to consider the massive increase in censorship (political correctness and “safe spaces”), militarization of the police, the NSA, and the HHS mandate. The constitution means nothing to this regime.

People need to understand that “gun control” is not about guns, it’s about control. The government does not have the best interests of We the People at heart. The endgame is not “safety”, but pacification of the populace. The statist boot-lickers will say that it is “common sense” regulation being sought, but “common sense” is a self-serving definition employed by the powers that be.

I am becoming more and more convinced to buy several guns. I fully support civilian ownership of assault weapons, tanks, blackhawks, RPGs, flamethrowers, everything. We live in a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog world that takes no prisoners. The government should be in mortal terror of its own people, not the other way around.

Lastly, remember that Obama said he would dedicate his last year in office to implementing stricter gun laws. And suddenly, a whole bunch of mass shootings start? Oh, just a coincidence! :rolleyes:
 
This is unfortunate. No one deserves to die like that. Islamists are now openly targeting the left. It is time for the left and the right to unite against radical Islam. I hope that this shooting does not give fuel to anti-religious groups though.
 
Siegehammer said:
My sincerest condolences to the surviving victims, to the friends and family of the dead, to the owners of the club, to the local community, and to the entire queer and Latino communities. I am holding you in my heart, friends. I am incandescently angry with you, and I grieve with you. I see you. I take up space in solidarity with you, on this day and every day.

I also stand in solidarity with the people who are Muslim who will targeted and harmed in retribution for this act, too. And with my fellow humans who have mental illness, who will demonized during the coming search for explanations, because “mentally ill” is the explanation that gets used so that we don’t have to talk about toxic religion and easy access to guns.
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👍
 
anon67074017 said:
This is unfortunate. No one deserves to die like that. Islamists are now openly targeting the left. It is time for the left and the right to unite against radical Islam. I hope that this shooting does not give fuel to anti-religious groups though.
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The Left are the ones bending over backwards to appease the Islamists. Probably because, like Islam, the Left despises any vestige of independent thought. Plus, Islam opposes America, Europe, and Christendom, which liberals also want to see eradicated.
 
JackVk said:
The Left are the ones bending over backwards to appease the Islamists. Probably because, like Islam, the Left despises any vestige of independent thought. Plus, Islam opposes America, Europe, and Christendom, which liberals also want to see eradicated.
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So Trump’s election will make the country and the world better?
 
mary_bobo said:
We already have strict gun laws. Most of these guns are stolen or obtained illegally. You have cited no facts to back this up your claim which comes straight from the liberal play book.
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So, Trump’s election is the first step in the solution?
 
Neofight said:
Same question to you Hoos…and does the answer include vote for Trump?
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Well it doesn’t include vote for Hillary…

What can be done?

Ask Cain and Abel.
My job is to get myself and my family to heaven.

If you want a world with no weapons then that is what you will have to do.
 
JackVk said:
The Left are the ones bending over backwards to appease the Islamists. Probably because, like Islam, the Left despises any vestige of independent thought. Plus, Islam opposes America, Europe, and Christendom, which liberals also want to see eradicated.
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Maybe the left will stop defending Islam because of this shooting.
 
Neofight said:
Same question to you Hoos…and does the answer include vote for Trump?
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No big fan of Trump. But, could a big event like this be the game-changer for him?

Like him or not, he’s 100% pro-American and is as opposed to this stuff as anyone is. Could a few voters tilt over to the Trump camp because they think he’d be tough on terrorism?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I’d love to see the gun law that would have stopped this…
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Less availability of guns and less tolerance of gun use might have prevented this. We will never know. But it would make this and similar atrocities less likely, to some degree. That’s enough for me.

What we are dealing with above all else is a mentality. In the US now, there is a prevalent mentality that guns are an acceptable means to personal power, to personal and societal “security”, and, in some communities and subcultures, even to settlement of personal disputes. The US is opting to go back to the society that prevailed in the 19th century western frontier. That might have been necessary in that time and place, and it’s made for some great TV shows and movies over the years, but in the present day US, it’s is an unmistakeable sign of societal disintegration.

Bottom line: the easy availability of guns in this country is a great enabler of terrorist acts. I’d like to see someone dispute that.
 
Lea101 said:
We should also support gun control.
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Maybe we should support people by not immediately bringing up gun-control right after a major shooting? Maybe we should stop trying to politicise this? Maybe the fact that a bunch of people were killed should mean more than outlawing certain guns? It’s a discussion that needs to be had but NOT NOW. It’s a very offensive. You’re allowed your opinion but you’re being very rude.:mad:
 
Expatreprocedit said:
Less availability of guns and less tolerance of gun use might have prevented this. We will never know. But it would make this and similar atrocities less likely, to some degree. That’s enough for me.

What we are dealing with above all else is a mentality. In the US now, there is a prevalent mentality that guns are an acceptable means to personal power, to personal and societal “security”, and, in some communities and subcultures, even to settlement of personal disputes. The US is opting to go back to the society that prevailed in the 19th century western frontier. That might have been necessary in that time and place, and it’s made for some great TV shows and movies over the years, but in the present day US, it’s is an unmistakeable sign of societal disintegration.

Bottom line: the easy availability of guns in this country is a great enabler of terrorist acts. I’d like to see someone dispute that.
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Stop talking about gun control! Now is NOT the time! Let people mourn first. I am from South Carolina and I had to deal with the shooting here. And by the way, CRIMINALS DON’T FOLLOW THE LAW. 🤷
 
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