Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

[Mary_Gail_36]

He was questioned three times by the FBI for he ties to Islamic Terrorists , he caledl 911 , & pledged allegiance to ISIS and then went on a killing spree. Rather than acknowledge this is an act of Islamic terror armchair psychologists are trying to spin this as being an act of a self loathing homosexual. I think Occmans razor applies here.

Here’s the text of the FBI press conference from yesterday.

fbi.gov/news/speeches/update-on-orlando-terrorism-investigation

That’s what we’ve been doing. Now, let me tell you what I can about the FBI’s prior contact with the killer. We first became aware of him in May of 2013. He was working as a contract security guard at a local court house. He made some statements that were inflammatory and contradictory that concerned his coworkers about terrorism. First, he claimed family connections to al Qaeda. He also said that he was a member of Hezbollah, which is a Shia terrorist organization that is bitter enemy of the so called Islamic State, ISIL. He said he hoped that law enforcement would raid his apartment and assault his wife and child so that he could martyr himself.

When this was reported to us, the FBI’s Miami office opened a preliminary investigation, and over the next 10 months we attempted to determine whether he was possibly a terrorist. Something we do in hundreds and hundreds of cases all across the country.

Our investigation involved introducing confidential sources to him, recording conversations with him, following him, reviewing transactional records from his communications, and searching all government holdings for any possible connections, any possible derogatory information. We then interviewed him twice. He admitted making the statements that his co-workers reported, but explained that he did it in anger because he thought his co-workers were discriminating against him and teasing him because he was Muslim.

After 10 months of investigation, we closed the preliminary investigation. Two months later, in July of 2014, the killer’s name surfaced again in an indirect way. Our Miami office was investigating the Florida man who had blown himself up for the Nusra Front in Syria. Again, the Nusra Front being a group in conflict with ISIL. We learned from the investigation that the killer knew him casually from attending the same mosque in that area of Florida. Our investigation turned up no ties of any consequence between the two of them.

In the course of that investigation, one witness told us, when asked, “Do you know anybody else who might be radicalizing,” that he had once been concerned about the killer because the killer had mentioned al-Awlaki videos. The witness had concluded that he later got married, and had a child, and got a job as a security guard, and so he was no longer concerned about him.

Our investigation again turned and interviewed the killer to find out whether he had any significant contacts with the suicide bomber from Nusra, determined that he did not, and then the inquiry continued focusing on the suicide bomber with no further focus on the Orlando killer.

 

[Sy_Noe]

That is not so unusual. A lot of terrorists went to bars and night clubs.

So they don’t really have a grasp on what Islam teaches.

 

[Brendan]

I have suggested tweaking the definition of assault weapons used in the previous ban. The previous ban did include the weapon he used though.

It would be hard to tell, not all AR-15s fell under the ban.

We would have to look at the specific manufacturer and model to know for certain.

After the Sandy Hook shootings, Connecticut issued it’s own ban, there have several manufacturers who have made AR-15 models that get around that ban as well.

The CT legislature tweaked the law, the manufacturers tweaked the design to get around it.

 

[Thorolfr]

There is no evidence. Now that his ex-wife is co-operating we may find out whether this was part of his motivation or not.

You probably mean his current wife, not his ex-wife who hadn’t seen him in quite some time. And even his current wife might not know all of what was going on inside him. I’ve known lots of gay men who were married to women and they usually didn’t reveal to their wives that they were gay. It was a secret, something they were struggling with and were ashamed of. It often involved meeting and having sex with other men in secret, not something they shared with their wives.

 

[gilliam]

So they don’t really have a grasp on what Islam teaches.

Can’t really say that. ISIS teaches that when someone becomes a ‘martyr’ all earthly sins will be forgiven.

If he thought he was a sinner and those around him were sinners, the terrorist attack may have been some kind of blood atonement.

We are discussing motivation of a terrorist and we don’t know enough right now. But he fits the profile.

 

[Brendan]

I know, right? Someone who enjoyed drinking and then purports to be faithful to ISIS? It’s not adding up so simply.

And how would anyone distinguish going there for recreation, and going there to scout it out for an attack.

 

[Thorolfr]

And how would anyone distinguish going there for recreation, and going there to scout it out for an attack.

Why would he have been using the gay dating app Jack’d if he was only scouting out the nightclub but had no other interest in gay men except as targets of terrorism? That implies to me something more than mere scouting out a target for terrorism.

 

[pnewton]

Why would homosexual men who frequented the club have motive to lie about it?.

The guy just killed fifty people. That is motive to strike back at him. I have heard homosexuals insult those that oppose them by claiming they must be latent homosexuals. I also know that ex-wives can lie.

I do not doubt he had visited the night club. I think that was a given. If he used a dating app that was not linked to casing this target, that would be pretty solid evidence. I am suspicious of any rush to this conclusion though. The truth might take a little while to learn.

 

[didymus]

Could Congress Have Stopped Omar Mateen From Getting His Guns?

Could legislation now stalled in Congress have stopped Omar Mateen from buying the guns he used to murder 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando early Sunday morning? Democrats made that case aggressively on Monday as they renewed their push for a bill that would block people on the terrorist watch list from being able to purchase firearms.

It’s not clear that this is true, however. Mateen was under FBI investigation for connections to terrorism two separate times in 2013 and 2014, the agency’s director, James Comey, confirmed on Monday. During that time, the government placed him in the Terrorist Screening Database, more commonly known as the terror watch list. (The no-fly list is a smaller subset of this list that forbids suspected individuals from boarding a commercial plane.)When those inquires ended, the government removed him from the list, the Los Angeles Times reported. Even if the legislation had been enacted, it would not have ensured that the FBI would have flaggedMateen when he went to buy an assault-style rifle and handgun in the days before Sunday’s massacre.

Actually, banning people on the terror watch list from owning guns doesn’t sound like a bad idea.
I’m all for the 2nd Amendment but this hardly seems like a case of “they’re coming to take your guns!!!”

 

[Sy_Noe]

Can’t really say that. ISIS teaches that when someone becomes a ‘martyr’ all earthly sins will be forgiven.

If he thought he was a sinner and those around him were sinners, the terrorist attack may have been some kind of blood atonement.

We are discussing motivation of a terrorist and we don’t know enough right now. But he fits the profile.

I said they don’t really have a grasp on what Islam teaches.

 

[Monkey1976]

Actually, banning people on the terror watch list from owning guns doesn’t sound like a bad idea.
I’m all for the 2nd Amendment but this hardly seems like a case of “they’re coming to take your guns!!!”

Considering that being placed on the “terror watch list” is an extrajudicial process without defense, appeal, or even notification that one is on the list, I’d rather not surrender an enumerated Constitutional right because some bureaucrat accidentally entered my SSN on the form.

 

[Brendan]

Why would he have been using the gay dating app Jack’d if he was only scouting out the nightclub but had no other interest in gay men except as targets of terrorism? That implies to me something more than mere scouting out a target for terrorism.

The targets were the people, and where they meet, hence the app. Understanding the terrain of the site would require the visits.

If someone had a major hatred of child pornographers, and wanted to do them harm, I imagine that they would use the same tools and apps that they use to find them and where they might hang out. Same would be true here, would it not?

Has anyone come forward and stated that they actually met up with Mateen via this app, and engaged in homosexual acts? That would certainly be an indicator that it was more than scouting. Otherwise, why even have and use the app other than for scouting? It would be like having the child porn app, and finding the sources, but not actually downloading any porn.

I have not seen a report one way or the other on that.

 

[Theo520]

Could Congress Have Stopped Omar Mateen From Getting His Guns?

Actually, banning people on the terror watch list from owning guns doesn’t sound like a bad idea.
I’m all for the 2nd Amendment but this hardly seems like a case of “they’re coming to take your guns!!!”

The terror watch list is very poorly managed, and the guy worked as an armed security guard, helping guard US Court Houses.

Unless we start sending people off to re-education camps for their suspected behavior, I don’t see how this one could have been prevented. Every jihadi probably has the DIY plans to make a pressure cooker bomb.

 

[Crossbones]

According to this, “He used at least two guns, a Sig Sauer AR-15-style assault rifle and a Glock handgun.” - nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html

Handguns are not assault weapons though, are they? According to this, most mass shooting have been done with semi automatic handguns: miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article83462157.html

If you have a “tweaking” to the assault weapons ban and ban then presumably the AR-15, is that correct, if semi automatic handguns are not classified as assault weapons, the type of weapon that has been used in most mass shootings, they won’t be banned and also, if there was a “tweaking” to the assault weapons ban, what would happen to the millions of weapons already in circulation? I think I’ve already heard what would happen regarding a weapon ban but I’d like to see your response.

Assault weapons are ill-defined and probably not language we should use. If there is a law banning certain types of weapons that may be commonly referred to as assault weapons, then it will have to define those weapons clearly. That would take considerable research to properly define the weapons and may or may not include the AR-15 (though I would think it should) and certain types of handguns that have large capacities (don’t have an opinion on that).

Personally, I think weapons in circulation that are put on a banned list should have strict requirements put on the current holders including properly securing the weapon, background checks of the holders and registration. But that’s a personal opinion. I’m sure others will have different opinions.

Of course, all this discussion is for naught. We both know that the Republicans in Congress will NEVER allow any ban on any weapon because they are owned by the NRA.

 

[mikekle]

I know, right? Someone who enjoyed drinking and then purports to be faithful to ISIS? It’s not adding up so simply.

You do remember when they killed Osama Bin Laden, and they found all those thumbdrives with porn on them…and this was the top leader for a radical Islamic terror group?

Im sure like every other religion, their people partake in sinful things, even those that they could be put to death for.

And really who knows, his past visits to the club and his online activity could have been intentional, to throw the FBI off, Im sure he knew once he did this, they would go thru his entire life with a fine toothed comb. These people are not stupid, they know how to use confusion.

 

[Crossbones]

All the above is more gibberish about nothing but a personal attack. Its against the rules which you should read. Your side bar dialogue and odd conversation has no place here. The OP is the topic not me or what you think about various aspects of me.

You have no point but a failed vague chatter about gun laws. Its a dead Democrat point and fear mongering as I said and you have no response.

I do not consider pointing out to you that your statements are unclear to me to be a personal attack. In fact, since you have continued to make unclear statements, then I thought I could illustrate for you why the comment you made is not clear and that would help you clarify it.

This here…

We could also address the real issue which isn’t guns and is only democrat fear mongering. It probably spurred more gun sales.

I consider guns to be a major issue of a mass shooting.

 

[Good_Tidings]

And how would anyone distinguish going there for recreation, and going there to scout it out for an attack.

It’s coming out that he has been going there a couple of times a month for the last three years. What do you think?

 

[pnewton]

It’s coming out that he has been going there a couple of times a month for the last three years. What do you think?

I don’t understand. I just heard that the FBI just now took the video footage. How would they have had time to review it already/

 

[mikekle]

I consider guns to be a major issue of a mass shooting.

Well, focusing on the guns is just addressing the tools he used, to really combat the problem, you have to focus on the source…WHY he did this, it was due to his radical beliefs.

If he had not been able to use a gun, Im sure he would have found another way, maybe a large truck bomb, like McVey used in OK.

You cannot ‘regulate away’ terrorism.

 

[Thorolfr]

On Facebook, I came across an interesting public response to the Orlando tragedy by Dr. Omid Safi, Professor of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies at Duke University:

So today we are seeing the news stories talking about how the ‪#‎Orlandoshootings‬ killer, Omar Mateen, was a regular at gay night clubs, had signed for a gay dating app, and was described as gay by many friends. In response, I am seeing many, many Muslim friends breathing a sigh of relief, and pointing out how premature the “radical Islam” media story was.

No. Not good enough. We can and must do better.

I understand that many of us in the Muslim community are feeling a sense of “relief”, hoping that the narrative will change. But we are not the main story. The story are the 50 lives cut short, the story is their families, the story is the 53 injured people, the story is a largely Latinx gay population massacred in their spot of safety. The story is still homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, toxic masculinity, Islamophobia, ease of access to war-grade guns.

What would a compassionate response to this news of Omar Mateen’s same-sex attractions be? Sadness and compassion. Sadness not that Omar Mateen might have been gay or struggled with same-sex attractions, but that we live in such a homophobic society that homophobia becomes internalized, that such self-loathing results in lashing out towards others in monstrous violence.

Compassion is the response. Always. Each and every single one of our communities has people who are feeling the oppressive weight of both the society’s general homophobia and the homophobia of our own particular communities. These are the human beings who need and deserve unconditional love, acceptance, and affirmation. There are other Omar Mateens in each of our faith communities, hurting, wounded. My primary compassion is for the 50 massacred Latinx gay victims and the 53 injured and their families and loved ones.

We have work, serious, long-term work of healing ahead of all of us. Yes, the narratives are rotten. The work of compassion and healing remains.