Poll: majority of Catholics who attend Mass weekly support same-sex marriage, women's ordination [CWN]

[BlessedLDS]

Another suggestion would be to read Pope Pious IX encyclical"Humanea Vitae"

Wasn’t Humanae Vitae written by Pope Paul VI?

 

[Jeanne_S]

Wasn’t Humanae Vitae written by Pope Paul VI?

There you go…fraternal correction!. Thank you!

 

[livingwordunity]

yes, the gay community,when asking for marriage, asks this of the civil secular society. Their agenda is simple: They desire the same rights given to others covered by the constitution. There are over 1100 rights denied to LGBT people. Seems like a civil rights issue. The Church has made their decision so let secular society make a decision.

Jesus said that we can’t serve two masters. A law is invalid when it goes against natural law. Everything isn’t a “right”.

 

[JimG]

It becomes problematic when traditionalists try to deny others the legal protections under the state that they claim for their own. Period. It really is that simple. You don’t have to agree with homosexuality. You don’t have to like it, but don’t try to deny equal protections under the state to others based on personal religious convictions.

Well, let’s see. “Traditionalists,” by which I mean every society since the dawn of civilization, have recognized the nature of marriage as a union between man and woman. Even when they recognized polygamy, it was still between man and woman. Even when they accepted homosexual behavior, they did not give it the benefit of, nor treat it as, nor recognize it as, marriage, for that would not be in the interest of society. And it still isn’t.

But nevertheless. Suppose that because marriage is recognized between men and women, we must therefore not deny it to others who may wish to have a marriage. We ought then, to extend marriage to anyone who wants it, in the name of equal rights. Two men, two women, first cousins, business partners, polygamists, polyandrists, pederasts who wish to marry their boys, swingers, bdsm advocates who wish to formalize their relationship, anyone at all. The institution of marriage, of course, would be rendered meaningless, but we are already getting there fast.

On the other hand, only a man and a woman are anatomically, biologically capable of engaging in a specifically marital sexual relationship. Only an opposite sex relationship is capable of being conjugal. A marital relationship between same sex couples is simply not possible, thus neither is marriage.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Your argument would be sound if there wasn’t something called the Constitution and the First Amendment. Like I said, I don’t see this as a religious, moral or Christian issue.

IN THE STATE, you cannot deny others equal rights that you enjoy based on your religious convictions, which would certainly include your assertion that SSA is “counter to natural order”

It’s not “her” argument. It’s the argument of the Vatican and the US Bishops. Both of these documents, which speak to positions binding on Catholics, refer to the duty of individual Catholics relative to THE STATE. There is no “right” inherent to unnatural or morally abhorrent relationships, no matter who states it (in or outside of religious settings) and no matter how often sexual propaganda is substituted for objective truth.

vatican.va/roman_curia/co…unions_en.html

(Section on Positions on the Problem of Homosexual Unions)

usccb.org/issues-and-acti…f-marriage.cfm

(Point #14 on the section, The Common Good and Human Dignity)

 

[Ridgerunner]

yes, the gay community,when asking for marriage, asks this of the civil secular society. Their agenda is simple: They desire the same rights given to others covered by the constitution. There are over 1100 rights denied to LGBT people. Seems like a civil rights issue. The Church has made their decision so let secular society make a decision.

Except, of course, that many bishops have spoken out against legalizing homosexual “marriage”.

I can understand that. Legalization is society’s stamp of approval on what is a scandalous relationship. It also demeans marriage.

One can say, of course, that one shouldn’t “impose one’s morality” on anyone else. But virtually everything in the law has a moral foundation to it, so when people say that, they’re really espousing relativism both in morality and in the law as well.

 

[bilop]

There is no “right” inherent to unnatural or morally abhorrent relationships, no matter who states it (in or outside of religious settings) and no matter how often sexual propaganda is substituted for objective truth.

Very true.

It is Catholic teaching that “error has no rights”. There is never a “right” to sin.

God Bless

 

[Country_Gal]

These type of surveys almost always find what they want to find. I note the professor made this statement:

“On the two issues that have prompted some pulpit thundering, same-sex marriage and abortion, Catholics are right in line, or even a little ahead, of their non-Catholic neighbors,” Carroll said.

Note he did not say that they were a little larger percentage, but they were ahead. He leaves the language of math and enters the language of social politics with that phrase. So, when these interviews are being discussed (the states listed below, but not the numbers from which) how easy would it be to be quicker to receive a refusal from one call as opposed to another call. Even they way they introduce themselves may make any of us hang up more than some pro-homosexual.

The person conduct the poll sets the results. Oh, states were:

Now, do I think that maybe a third of Catholics are totally ignorant on the subject of homosexual morality, Catholic teaching on abortion and the total impossibility of women priests? Yes. Some people would rather be willfully ignorant than change politics or lifestyle.

It depends on how you ask the questions.

Do you:
A) Hate homosexual marriage with all your heart and want to deny it to loving gay couples?
B) Want to allow people to choose gay marriage?

or
Are you:
A) in favor of legalization of gay marriage by the government?
B) opposed to legalization of gay marriage by the government?

 

[_Abyssinia]

Agree

In the words of Pope Francis:

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. "

Homosexual inclination is not sin, but Catholic teaching does view homosexual sexual acts as sinful.

When homosexual marriage was being debated for legalisation by legislators,
Cardinal Bergolio wrote the following to Argentine monasteries

He wrote: “In the coming weeks, the Argentine people will face a situation whose outcome can seriously harm the family…At stake is the identity and survival of the family: father, mother and children. At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

Cardinal Bergoglio continued: “Let us not be naive: this is not simply a political struggle, but it is an attempt to destroy God’s plan. It is not just a bill (a mere instrument) but a ‘move’ of the father of lies who seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/cardinal_bergoglio_hits_out_at_same-sex_marriage

 

[_Abyssinia]

yes, the gay community,when asking for marriage, asks this of the civil secular society. Their agenda is simple: They desire the same rights given to others covered by the constitution. There are over 1100 rights denied to LGBT people. Seems like a civil rights issue. The Church has made their decision so let secular society make a decision.

What court opinion has said homosexual marriage is a civil right? I do not even think the DOMA or Prop 8 Supreme court opinions said homosexual marriage was a civil right. If you think homosexual marriage is a civil right do you also think polygamous marriage is a civil right?

Is access to marriage a civil right?

No, access to marriage is not a civil right. Our civil rights are very specific rights that are accorded to individuals because of their status as humans. These rights are based on universal characteristics, not on feelings, desires, “orientations,” or volitional conduct.

Our civil rights are the following: freedom of religion; freedom of speech; freedom of press; freedom of assembly; the right to vote; the right to life; freedom from involuntary servitude; the right to equality in public places; the right to due process of law; the right to equal protection under the law.

Marriage is an institution, not a civil right. The government can legitimately define an institution and limit its membership in accordance with that definition.

Do current marital requirements violate civil rights?

Current marital requirements do not violate civil rights. Every individual who fulfills the requirements or conditions that society has deemed essential to the institution of marriage has equal access to marriage.
What homosexuals are actually demanding is that they be permitted to redefine marriage—to eliminate one of the conditions that society views as central to marriage: sexual complementarity.
Similarly, polyamorous people who love more than one person cannot redefine marriage by eliminating the criterion of numbers of partners.
And incestuous couples cannot redefine marriage by eliminating the criterion regarding close blood kinship. And those who believe they are in love with minors cannot eliminate the criterion of minimum age.
None of these groups of people are being denied their civil rights even though they cannot get married. They are being prevented from unilaterally redefining marriage which is a public institution that affects the civic good.

illinoisfamily.org/110files/uploads/2012/11/Marriage-is-not-a-Civil-Right.pdf

 

[PTL]

So, the majority Catholics who go to church support gay-“marriage”. That simply shows how poor those Catholics are educated. Most people enjoy eating sh** does not make sh** right to eat. Knowing someone nice who is gay should not make one a gay supporter. If we are truly compassionate, we should tell them the truth. Truth can set you free. God’s truth is black and white in the Bible. God disapproves gay relationship.

Gay relation simply could not be called marriage because it is not. No matter how many times you call an ape human, it is still an ape. You cannot call a unnatural thing natural because it is not. Support gay-“marriage” is meaningless because they are supporting a lie.

 

[Cider]

And to those attacking the methodology, I would add that Quinnipiac is a highly regarded polling firm. You probably have heard of them during election years. They usually are very good at predicting election outcomes.

Settled Church doctrine isn’t up for a vote so it really doesn’t matter what a bunch of self described catholics with heterodox beliefs want.

 

[SMGS127]

Settled Church doctrine isn’t up for a vote so it really doesn’t matter what a bunch of self described catholics with heterodox beliefs want.

True, but her post is detailing the fact that Quinnipiac (and PPP) are the top and most accurate pollsters in the field right now. Attacking their methodology, especially when the attacks are unfounded (at least as far as Mr. Donohue has argued), is really not a smart way to tackle this issue. Instead of sticking our fingers in our ears, going “lalalalala,” and denying that any poor catechesis could possibly have led to weekly-Mass-goers who support SS’M’ or, God forbid, abortion, why isn’t this thread discussing the proper way to improve catechesis? Why are we so hung up on proving every single person wrong when they say Catholics as a whole support X that we can’t use it as a learning moment so we can teach the next (and current!) generation properly?

 

[Brendan]

Not surprised at all.

I agree, considering how under-catechized most Catholics are. They have no real knowledge of the Faith.

 

[Cider]

Who’s denying there have been literally decades of failure to properly catechize?

 

[livingwordunity]

The survey found that 56% of Americans, 53% of Catholics who attend Mass weekly, and 65% of Catholics who attend Mass less frequently would support “a law in your state that would allow same-sex couples to get married.” Support was stronger among Catholics of ages 18-49 (64%) than ages 50-64 (62%) or 65+ (46%).

How sad.

 

[Slaney]

Catechises is the root of the problem, it was ground into us in my generation, sadly now it is lacking.

An old woman said to me many times, " if we don’t bend the branch when it’s young, we may not be able to bend it when it’s fully grown."

 

[gracepoole]

Two things come to mind here…

First, if folks are squeamish about the Quinnipiac poll, there’s always this: features.pewforum.org/same-sex-marriage-attitudes/slide3.php

Or this:
publicreligion.org/research/2012/03/march-rns-2012-research/

Second, the claim that most American Catholics who support same-sex marriage are uncatechized or improperly catechized might be the preferable answer but it’s incorrect for many. Knowing and understanding the CCC does not ipso facto result in adherence to it. Unbridled relativism, little to no catechesis post-Vatican II, wild hubris… Again, I think there’s a comfort in accepting these easy answers. But they’re definitely insufficient.

 

[bben15]

I’m sure the Pope feels that stab in the back every time he reads something like this.

 

[Mark121359]

While I’ll agree that many of these Catholics are poorly educated, I also believe that just as many know full well what the Church teaches and they couldn’t care less. They thumb their nose at the Church and her teachings while at the same time walk up and receive Holy Communion without batting an eye! When asked about Confession they say…Huh?

And another thing. The short time I’ve been here, I’ve seen many, many threads with subjects such as this. And usually someone will write a post with horribly misinformed and flawed beliefs and opinions about the Faith. And as it happens, several very well educated, and very well informed Catholics will politely point out the truths of the Faith to correct them…only to get snubbed or called rude, or judgmental and other nasty things. And this absolutely irks me to no end. So… to all of you who have experienced this harsh treatment, and you know who you are…***God Bless You! *** Your patience and your efforts are commendable!

Peace to you,
Mark