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estesbob
Guest
He is under no obligation to publicly practice his faith. But when he publicly practices no faith he should not be surprised when people are confused about what it is
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seekerz
Guest
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seekerz
Guest
Now it’s posters like you that get me “worked up”…Have you some sort of spiritual imaging device that gets to see what’s inside him? Honestly, why can’t people just admit when something is plain wrong? It doesn’t mean what you stand for is wrong, just that on a particular point, you have erred. Presuming to know someone as well as God does (from the inside) is just…plain…wrong…
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seekerz
Guest
What business is it of theirs - did they elect him for his religious beliefs? I would think that if he were not surprised by significant numbers of people (including some who claim the moral high ground), openly propagating untruths about him, then he would justifiably be of no faith whatsoever…
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estesbob
Guest
Unless one beleives there is something wrong with being a Muslim why would anyone care if people think he is?
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qui_est_ce
Guest
He’s a public figure. That’s what happens.
I missed this one. Who is opening propagating untruths about Obama?
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
While no one should presume to judge a man’s salvation or destiny with God, it is perfectly valid to take the forensic evidence of a man’s actions and make a judgement to some degree, about his moral stances and his values.
Obama has shrugged off Christian prayer meetings and yet is all giddy about Islamic Ramadan shindigs. He is also pro-choice and has been overtly pro-choice in his judicial choices and attempting to put abortion into the health care “reform” bill. He has fought for gays in the military and has made his views of gay ‘marriage’ clear. He has aligned himself with people who are various and sundry who have openly stated sympathies with socialism and disturbing views in many areas.
He has also made it clear that he’s a one-trick pony who thinks government is the ONLY solution to anything.
He has out-deficit-spent Bush into oblivion and has no competence with financial matters, growing an economy, or encouraging business and trade. He’s inept, IMO, and totally corrupt.
If these things he does on the outside, how can he be morally opposed to these things on the inside?
Obama has shrugged off Christian prayer meetings and yet is all giddy about Islamic Ramadan shindigs. He is also pro-choice and has been overtly pro-choice in his judicial choices and attempting to put abortion into the health care “reform” bill. He has fought for gays in the military and has made his views of gay ‘marriage’ clear. He has aligned himself with people who are various and sundry who have openly stated sympathies with socialism and disturbing views in many areas.
He has also made it clear that he’s a one-trick pony who thinks government is the ONLY solution to anything.
He has out-deficit-spent Bush into oblivion and has no competence with financial matters, growing an economy, or encouraging business and trade. He’s inept, IMO, and totally corrupt.
If these things he does on the outside, how can he be morally opposed to these things on the inside?
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seekerz
Guest
You may validly question the state of anyone’s Christianity…and I’m not arguing against that. Of course you already know all of that…as well as the fact that the poster I was responding to accused the president of something else altogether:
So I’ll ask you the same question I asked him, do you have some imaging device that can see into someone’s soul to determine whether they believe in Christ or Mohammed?
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seekerz
Guest
Where is the untruth? He would be justified in practicing no faith at all if he expected no better from Christians. What’s the point of being something you don’t hold in high regard?
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estesbob
Guest
16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
%between%
Matthew 7:16 (New International Version)
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seekerz
Guest
Don’t go all out-of-context-bible-quoting on me. That was not an instruction on how to recognize a Muslim…from the inside (as one poster suggests he can do) or from the outside.
I think you are confusing measuring the quality of one’s faith, with measuring its object. A not too subtle difference, I might add.
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Alcrusader
Guest
Well I think you are Catholic, and you believe in the word of Jesus our God.
Jesus said in gospel of Luke 6 : 43- 45
[BIBLEDRB] Luke 6:43-45[/BIBLEDRB]
… “For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.”…
I think this phrase is clear enough.
Well in this case you can still search on google about how to know the real nature of the person from his acts…
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pnewton
Guest
I have to say, that with that explaination, I agree with what you are saying. I would not say ever that I think he is a Muslim in light of his own statements. I will stick with my non-commital, “I do not know.” I will say some of his actions are what I would excpect of a Muslim, or one more sympathetic to Muslims than any other group. Bu perhaps in the future some his actions will prove to be more Christian, like opposing abortion, or speaking of Jesus in some way that shows at least a passing familiarity.
I am always open to hope and change.
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seekerz
Guest
So now Google is the reference for telling whether a professed Christian is actually a Muslim? This is getting curiouser and curiouser…It’s actually amusing the lengths some of you guys will go to.
The man is a Protestant Christian; Protestant Christians don’t reference Google to decide if someone is a Christian or some other faith, they ask: “Have you accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior”.
Of course at least one notable Protestant leader is calling his own faith into question by making it more complicated than that…all in honor of a single man who happens to be president. The rules that apply to all men seem to get thrown out of the window when it comes to him - makes you wonder who has the messiah complex …
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seekerz
Guest
I have no problem with “I do not know” if you in fact don’t know. Even when they know better, I have met some Protestants who refuse to acknowledge Catholics as Christians, but I’ve never known them go as far as claiming we believe in Mohammed or Buddha or Krishna… One day we all will answer to the Heavenly Father for the claims we make about others, so in the meantime it’s advisable to keep our words soft and sweet…
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Are you asking ME this or the other poster? I personally don’t think the man is a Muslim, if you’re asking me and no I have no such technology although I’m sure someone at Apple will think it up in the next decade. 
From all his actions and the company he keeps as well as his open beliefs, I believe he is either an agnostic or atheist, not a Muslim by any means. Were he a Muslim, he’d be pro-life, against the insanity of gay “marriage,” against the feminism in this country, and he’d be praying five times a day instead of playing so much basketball and traveling to Martha’s Vineyard. But if he is an ‘undercover Muslim’ out to destroy America, he’s doing a bangup job. Unemployment is through the roof, businesses are on their knees, real estate is plunging into a new abyss, $$$ is being printed at break-neck speed, our country is deficit spending into Hades, we’re allowing Iran to nuke up and threaten Israel as well as us, we’re feeling sorry for terrorists, we want to build mosques near 9-11. I think it’s far-fetched that he’s a Muslim but if it is an Islamic Manchurian candidate, he’s fullfilling his mission with flying colors!
From all his actions and the company he keeps as well as his open beliefs, I believe he is either an agnostic or atheist, not a Muslim by any means. Were he a Muslim, he’d be pro-life, against the insanity of gay “marriage,” against the feminism in this country, and he’d be praying five times a day instead of playing so much basketball and traveling to Martha’s Vineyard. But if he is an ‘undercover Muslim’ out to destroy America, he’s doing a bangup job. Unemployment is through the roof, businesses are on their knees, real estate is plunging into a new abyss, $$$ is being printed at break-neck speed, our country is deficit spending into Hades, we’re allowing Iran to nuke up and threaten Israel as well as us, we’re feeling sorry for terrorists, we want to build mosques near 9-11. I think it’s far-fetched that he’s a Muslim but if it is an Islamic Manchurian candidate, he’s fullfilling his mission with flying colors!
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seekerz
Guest
Ah, the destroyer of America… at least projecting cataclysmic fantasies onto the man as though he were responsible for creating them, is not the same as lying about his religious faith…Are you asking ME this or the other poster? I personally don’t think the man is a Muslim, if you’re asking me and no I have no such technology although I’m sure someone at Apple will think it up in the next decade.
Let’s see, deficit spending our ourselves into Hades is only allowed when we’re fighting unnecessary (and probably immoral) wars in countries that have no weapons of mass destruction (er, did we misspell the name of the country that actually had those? Iran, Iraq: toma-to, to-mato…) or when we’re giving tax cuts that magically pay for themselves to the wealthy so they can not create the jobs that we can then blame the One for not pulling from a hat…Meanwhile, we can fight terrorism by creating no-mosque zones of uncertain dimensions in our own fair cities, while we build mosques in every distant land where there isn’t one… Really, this kind of rationalizing is kind of fun, almost like spinning in one of those zero-g machines at the county fair!
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Please compare Obama’s deficit spending in ONE YEAR of office to all 8 of Bush’s and get back to me. You might have an epiphany. I also think the wars were a mistake and yielded little fruit. As a centrist Independent, I’ll agree with you on that one. But as a disclaimer, I was all for the Iraq Invasion when it started. In retrospect we destabilized the region giving Iran more power than ever and weakened the Sunni minority in Iraq. Now the Shiite majority is out of control, has no check, and they’ll most likely eventually hook up with Iran. So we agree on that one. I detest neo-con nation-building naivate. Good point.
But you’re sorely mistaken with your venom toward tax cuts. Tax cuts fueled business in America. And the misnomer that you throw out, the usual Democrat leftie talking point “tax cuts for the rich” is inaccurate and you know that. I make a meager $59,000 and I watched my taxes go down. In those supposedly “rich” tax cuts, I got to write off $1,000 per child as a tax credit. I have three small children. As a teacher and the sole bread-winner, the Bush tax cuts and the child tax credits totally changed our taxes in our household. My wife and I were able to get back $3,000 to $4000 each year in tax return that literally saved our financial lives from year to year. The Bush tax cuts got Kate and I through some dang lean times. OF COURSE the rich get more of a cut in taxes, seeker, because, for God’s sake, they make ten times what you and I make!!? If you get a 5% reduction in taxes and you make $50,000, of course you’re going to get infinitely less than a guy who makes $5,000,000 per year. But look at what the guy has to PAY in taxes compared to your rate anyway? That is absurd.
And the Federal Government actually brought in MORE tax revenue under Bush with the taxes because business was booming, businesses were spending more and making more and actually reporting more tax revenue on the prosperity of said tax cuts.
If you want to blame GW Bush for the financial melt-down of 2008 until the present time, you’re way off base. The housing market single-handedly crippled this country. You know that, right? Iraq didn’t create job losses. Afghanistan didn’t create job losses. Tax cuts didn’t create job losses.
The REAL ESTATE market did. The Democrats in the late 90’s, under Barney Frank’s great wisdom and guidance, waved the usual Democrat flag of “Every single American has the right to own a home and should own one!” So they de-regulated the mortgage industry to such a degree and opened up the dead-beat market so wide that any jerkwad with HORRIBLE credit, repos, nothing down, and no history could buy $400,000 homes. The liberal mentality changed the mortgage system to allow dead-beats to monopolize the system very well. And they did. Mass amounts of greedy and irresponsible dead-beats bought homes they couldn’t buy, Fannie and Freddie got fat and all this toxic mortgage debt and hedge funds and all these stocks and portfolios were full of investments related to this.
When all the dead-beats defaulted and foreclosed, all the banks ATE IT. When the banks ate it, they couldn’t extend credit lines to small and large business. When the businesses lost credit, people GOT FIRED. Companies large and small had to cut losses and fire folks. They had to streamline, many went out of business.
Show me where George Bush made the mortgage market collapse, the people foreclose, the banks collapse, and the economy fall apart.
As far as the mosque thing goes, I think it’s lame. I think they should be politically sensitive and thoughtful to the people who lost their lives on 9-11 and build elsewhere. The Taliban, Al Qaeda and other Muslim killers overseas will see this as a triumph of islam and a strategic sign that they can destroy us and rebuild in their image. That being said, legally and constitutionally they have every right to build it as much as I must pinch my nose while saying so.
But you’re sorely mistaken with your venom toward tax cuts. Tax cuts fueled business in America. And the misnomer that you throw out, the usual Democrat leftie talking point “tax cuts for the rich” is inaccurate and you know that. I make a meager $59,000 and I watched my taxes go down. In those supposedly “rich” tax cuts, I got to write off $1,000 per child as a tax credit. I have three small children. As a teacher and the sole bread-winner, the Bush tax cuts and the child tax credits totally changed our taxes in our household. My wife and I were able to get back $3,000 to $4000 each year in tax return that literally saved our financial lives from year to year. The Bush tax cuts got Kate and I through some dang lean times. OF COURSE the rich get more of a cut in taxes, seeker, because, for God’s sake, they make ten times what you and I make!!? If you get a 5% reduction in taxes and you make $50,000, of course you’re going to get infinitely less than a guy who makes $5,000,000 per year. But look at what the guy has to PAY in taxes compared to your rate anyway? That is absurd.
And the Federal Government actually brought in MORE tax revenue under Bush with the taxes because business was booming, businesses were spending more and making more and actually reporting more tax revenue on the prosperity of said tax cuts.
If you want to blame GW Bush for the financial melt-down of 2008 until the present time, you’re way off base. The housing market single-handedly crippled this country. You know that, right? Iraq didn’t create job losses. Afghanistan didn’t create job losses. Tax cuts didn’t create job losses.
The REAL ESTATE market did. The Democrats in the late 90’s, under Barney Frank’s great wisdom and guidance, waved the usual Democrat flag of “Every single American has the right to own a home and should own one!” So they de-regulated the mortgage industry to such a degree and opened up the dead-beat market so wide that any jerkwad with HORRIBLE credit, repos, nothing down, and no history could buy $400,000 homes. The liberal mentality changed the mortgage system to allow dead-beats to monopolize the system very well. And they did. Mass amounts of greedy and irresponsible dead-beats bought homes they couldn’t buy, Fannie and Freddie got fat and all this toxic mortgage debt and hedge funds and all these stocks and portfolios were full of investments related to this.
When all the dead-beats defaulted and foreclosed, all the banks ATE IT. When the banks ate it, they couldn’t extend credit lines to small and large business. When the businesses lost credit, people GOT FIRED. Companies large and small had to cut losses and fire folks. They had to streamline, many went out of business.
Show me where George Bush made the mortgage market collapse, the people foreclose, the banks collapse, and the economy fall apart.
As far as the mosque thing goes, I think it’s lame. I think they should be politically sensitive and thoughtful to the people who lost their lives on 9-11 and build elsewhere. The Taliban, Al Qaeda and other Muslim killers overseas will see this as a triumph of islam and a strategic sign that they can destroy us and rebuild in their image. That being said, legally and constitutionally they have every right to build it as much as I must pinch my nose while saying so.
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MarianD
Guest
Also, think about this:
If Obama publicly practices no faith, then why does it matter even if he was Muslim (which he clearly is not)? He practicing no faith as President, so even if he was Muslim, that wouldn’t effect any of his policies or the way he thinks.
I’m certain Obama isn’t Muslim. Why? Because I know, as a former Muslim, that even saying “Jesus is our Savior and God” (something Obama said in many of his speeches) that you’d automatically be “excommunicated” (so to speak) from Islam.
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estesbob
Guest
Actually given what he supports he wouldnt make a very good Muslim either.So now Google is the reference for telling whether a professed Christian is actually a Muslim? This is getting curiouser and curiouser…It’s actually amusing the lengths some of you guys will go to.
The man is a Protestant Christian; Protestant Christians don’t reference Google to decide if someone is a Christian or some other faith, they ask: “Have you accepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior”.
Of course at least one notable Protestant leader is calling his own faith into question by making it more complicated than that…all in honor of a single man who happens to be president. The rules that apply to all men seem to get thrown out of the window when it comes to him - makes you wonder who has the messiah complex …
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