Pope’s adjuration: Are you going to fast as penance? [Poll]

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I am just kind of confused on this point. Are we being asked to fast and pray for the priests in general here? I see no problem with that. But if this is all about shifting the blame from those who committed this horrible act to someone else, I am not for it.

I personally pray for priests on a regular basis, but I do not understand why I should be doing penance for something someone did to me as an abuse victim. I thought penance was something guilty people did. Maybe I am misunderstanding its purpose, but I am not the one who is guilty here.
 
I am reading this and still not getting it. I understand that Jesus died for all sins ever committed, and that ever will be committed in the future. But I do not see the lack of desire to do penance for something someone did to me as spitting in the fact of Christ’s sacrifice. Maybe its a point in the forgiveness process I am not at yet. I can pray for those who have hurt me, but the idea of not eating and suffering hunger on account of them, I’m still a bit too selfish for that.
 
I didn’t mean flat out to say that to not do the penance is spitting on Christ’s sacrifice. I didn’t mean it in that sense and I apologize for coming out too strong. I was referring to the thought that the sins of others do not affect me; the thought that, “That is their sin, what does that have to do with me?” If you pray for them, then this is proof that their guilt affects you in your prayer life and you make an offering of your time and prayers for them. Regular prayer for others is, in itself, a small form of penance.

Acts of penance, unless they are held under the pain of sin, are always voluntary. The Pope is asking for people to fast not only for those specific people who committed those sins but also for the form of purgatory that those sins impose upon the Church as a whole. In fasting for these sins, we do not only fast for the priests who abused the children and the hierarchy who covered up those sins but also the good priests who get heckled and persecuted in the court of public opinion because of the sins of others, the poor parishes which will suffer the financial repercussions against the dioceses much more difficultly than the rich parishes, and the poor souls who will turn away from the Church as a result of the sins of others.
 
Thanks for clarifying what you meant, it sounds a little less, harsh now that you put it that way. It makes more sense now.
 
But fasting in reparation for the sins of others DOES help fix - the spiritual damage at least. That is why Jesus did it for our sake - being God He didn’t need it for Himself.
 
You think the Pope does not expect the clergy to do just as much - or more? Or that he will not join in?
 
mythbuster1 said:
40 days with water and vitamins but no food is about the limit of what a healthy adult is capable of. Those who are overweight can go longer.
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Many if not most of us do not “fast” in this manner of only consuming water and no food. It is unhealthy, can ruin your metabolism or other organs, can cause you to faint and injure yourself or others (for instance if you’re driving a car or carrying a child or going up/ down stairs), and adversely affects your abiliy to focus on your job or daily tasks. It might be something one could do living in a monks’ cell with limited activity and other people around to call the doctor if you get sick, but is not practical for most of us in daily life, especially if we have other health issues such as anemia or blood sugar or mood swings caused by blood sugar.

People will claim they feel more “spiritual” when they fast in this way, which is likely true because after a day or two it stops hurting and you begin to feel like you are floating in the ether and may have weird thoughts or hallucinate, because your body is basically digesting itself. However, the point of fasting for penance is penance, not “feels” or visions or self-harm.

The people I know who fast regularly, like a couple days a week, will do things like bread and water for a day or two, or juice for a day or two, or skip breakfast and lunch (or have a tiny meal of tea and a cracker) and then have bread with soup or beans for dinner. Or they “fast” from something they normally consume, such as non-water drinks, or foods containing sugar. These practices will cause enough discomfort in a normal person to provide mortification, without endangering health in most cases. People with health conditions use plans provided by their doctor.
 
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Yeah. To run an analogy on a very different subject, since chastity speakers are paid to speak about chastity ad nauseam, while very good, I do not need another lecture to be pure or chaste since technically I am not viewing porn or masturbation and try not to entertain impure thoughts, but have sexual desire. I need more advice or methods on top of prayer and offering it up and keeping busy, because I do all these things, and the sexual desire does not go away. No Catholic speaker addresses this struggle of already practicing chastity and not being being to act on one’s normal and not immoral sexual desires.
 
GEddie said:
Plus one.

I get weary of feeling browbeaten about issues I neither caused, nor contributed to, nor have any ability to fix.

ICXC NIKA
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I understand the proper application of responsibility you are talking about.
At the same time, we profess the Communion of Saints and all that entails.
 
I think this type of penance comes more naturally to people who already make a general practice of “offering up” prayers and sacrifices as reparation for both their own sins and the sins of all mankind, as we are called to do by many sources already, such as Scripture, Our Lady at Fatima and many other apparitions, the examples of the saints, etc.

If this is something I already do regularly each week, then when the Pope calls us to do it, it’s just another day at the office. We need to remember that serious sins are occurring every day, including among some clergy as well as laymen, whether the Pope or the news media is mentioning the sins or not.

If, on the other hand, people aren’t already doing these prayers and sacrifices for sinners regularly, then when the Pope tells them to do it, it’s not going to seem natural or make much sense, and it comes off like “because the Pope says so” and people start reading all kinds of meanings into it, instead of understanding it in the general context of us daily trying to make reparation to God for the sins of humanity.
 
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I voted no… instead I will be abstaining from financial support of the Church until it is clear that all rapists and enablers in the Church are criminally prosecuted
 
Great, when your local church shuts down due to inability to pay its bills, so you have no more access to Mass, that will really be helpful in addressing this problem
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Great, when your local church shuts down due to inability to pay its bills, so you have no more access to Mass, that will really be helpful in addressing this problem
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I encourage everyone I speak with to do the same. The Church’s won’t shut down, they will be moved to action.
 
The Church has no power to criminally prosecute priests. They hand info over to civil authorities to criminally prosecute people. This is what they have been doing already since at least 2002.

In most of these cases, the statute of limitations has already passed and/or the accused is already dead.
 
Joe_5859 said:
The Church has no power to criminally prosecute priests. They hand info over to civil authorities to criminally prosecute people.
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Thanks for the clarifying my point…that is what I meant to say… handing over to the police.

Does anyone know where to find a list and details of those priests handed over?
 
Joe is correct.

Also, the Church in USA is already taking a lot of “action” on this for about 15 years now.

However, considering that most people don’t give the Church any significant money anyway, it’s probably not worth arguing about it.
 
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bishop-accountability.org

Also, your local news.

Chaput just kicked two priests out of Philadelphia archdiocese yesterday. One was an alleged sex abuser (I say “Alleged” because two criminal trials failed to convict him and the civil suit was settled, which is not an admission of guilt) and the other one was a drug addict who stole from the collection and had his drugs mailed to the rectory (he got community service, restitution and probation).
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Chaput just kicked two priests out of Philadelphia archdiocese yesterday
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Sounds like they’re getting off with a slap on the wrist. Here I was thinking they were getting jail time, & they’re not. At least, not according to the article…

Lord, we need You…Seriously…If ever there was a crisis time in the life of Your Church, it’s now…



And yes, I will fast…We need Our Father’s help…desperately now…
 
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godisgood77 said:
Does anyone know where to find a list and details of those priests handed over?
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As TisBear said, the stories are out there in the public record, often in the newspapers. These allegations are already being handed over to police. Bishops are already removing them from ministry. They are already being laicized in many cases. In my old diocesan paper, any time something like this came up (which was actually pretty rare) they always publicized it on the front page.
 
Re the sex abuser: The state tried to prosecute him twice. If the evidence isn’t there, and it ends up in two mistrials, then that is the fault of the state prosecutor, not the Church. The Church does not have the power to put him in prison.

Re the drug addict: The US has a huge problem with drug addiction, and first-time offenders like the pastor here are generally given a light sentence because the focus is on them making restitution (he has to pay the stolen money back) and on getting treatment. Throwing drug addicts in prison is generally frowned upon as doing nothing to solve the problems of addiction. It does not matter whether he is a pastor or a teenager - a first-time offender will get a sentence like what he got.
And again, the Church is not the one deciding whether he gets put in prison. The state handles it.
 
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