Pope’s adjuration: Are you going to fast as penance? [Poll]

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Tis_Bearself said:
And again, the Church is not the one deciding whether he gets put in prison. The state handles it.
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Fully understand this point… however the Church stands at the crossroads of this problem AND has great influence on the outcomes. I think it completely inadequate to stop at ‘we kicked them out of the priesthood’ … instead they should openly and proactively assist civil authorities prosecute the criminals in their midst.

I would find that approach much more satisfactory
 
What makes you think they didn’t cooperate in these two cases?

I know for a fact they were very cooperative in the drug case because the church happens to be a little distance from where I currently am sitting and I have attended Mass there, and the story of the rectory staff calling the cops when they found the mail and the cops coming down and searching the whole place was all over the local papers.

The alleged sexual abuser was suspended by the Archdiocese back in 2011, even before he was charged in 2012. Of course, I get the impression that whatever the Archdiocese did, it will never be enough to satisfy some people. "They could have done more! And this! And that other thing 20 years ago! "
 
I’d like to fast, but every time I do I get bad headaches that pretty much make me useless for the rest of the day. I will be doing a partial fast.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Of course, I get the impression that whatever the Archdiocese did, it will never be enough to satisfy some people
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Indeed. I feel like most dioceses have—for the most part—been doing everything possible these past 15 years to be transparent, hold priests accountable, cooperate with civil authorities, seek laicization (even in cases like these where the civil courts couldn’t actually get a conviction), etc. I struggle to think of what more they could possibly be doing at present.

Which brings me back to the OP. Part of the reason I feel Francis is calling for us to fast is to, in a sense, give us something to do—not to shift blame to the victims or the laity. When we hear these stories, we quite naturally get upset and want to contribute to the solution. Yet, most of us are not going to be called to directly take part in these matters. But we can all fast and pray.
 
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I already fast from one meal on Fridays, so I’m planning on adding the same onto Wednesdays. Not sure how many weeks I’ll do it for… maybe a month.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
What makes you think they didn’t cooperate…
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Not signaling out these two cases as it appears that they were handled… but here we are almost 20 years after the rape and abuse scandal was made public and another massive scandal of abuse of power and pedophilia breaks. Something is not working.
 
I would first note that the “rape and abuse scandal” was first widely publicized in the USA in the 80s and the 90s, so we’re not talking 20 years hearing about this, we’re talking almost 40 years hearing about this.

Second, we have just given you examples of how the system IS WORKING, now. I could give you a third child porn/ sex abuse case from the past 5 years also - the priest has already been laicized, gone through the criminal process, and is serving time. And a fourth one where the priest was from another country, was accused of sexually harassing an adult women, and was promptly sent back to his home country by the diocesan authority; he was a member of an order, so the order has to take it from there, but he’s not going to be bothering anybody in the US any more.

If you are going to continue to feel unease about cases that happened decades ago, and use that as a basis to decide everything going on now must be haywire as well, then I guess that’s just how you feel. It’s not supported by any current occurrences, though.
 
godisgood77 said:
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Tis_Bearself:
What makes you think they didn’t cooperate…
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Not signaling out these two cases as it appears that they were handled… but here we are almost 20 years after the rape and abuse scandal was made public and another massive scandal of abuse of power and pedophilia breaks. Something is not working.
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exactly.
What is not working is the very leadership that needs to be reformed. That’s the way corrupt power works.
It promotes and protects itself.
 
Well I have to say I do not give any money to the local churches either for the same reason, basically. I cannot in good faith give money to the church until I feel it is properly addressing the sexual abuse issues.
 
I am a personal abuse victim. I may be a female, and I may have been 18, but my own personal experiences seem to point to the opposite. I dont like getting into this deeply, because it can be painful, but knowing what I know about how the church dealt with my own situation leads me to feel it is immoral to financially support a corrupt church. So I support her with prayers instead.
 
Oh Tis, Tis Tis. I was an adult woman, an 18 year old woman, when I was abused by a priest they moved to Africa. I’m praying right now that you see that moving him from America to Africa did not solve the problem. He should have been defrocked. He has no place being a practicing priest. I pray for him because its all I am able to do, but I do not excuse it, and this kind of thing still is happening. Until it ends, I am not giving a red cent to the Roman Catholic Church. I cannot and will not do it.
 
The diocese does not have the authority to “Defrock” him. Like I said, he is a member of an order. He is under their control. The orders for the most part do not report what they do what these guys, especially in a foreign country.

The point is that the Bishop took quick action and did what he could do, which was get him out of where he was serving so he would not hurt any more women at that location.

Feel free to direct your outrage at all the orders while you’re being outraged at the bishops.

I am finding people’s expectations on this thread to be way unrealistic. It is hard to have any kind of a productive discussion when people just want to be emotional. I realize it’s an emotional issue, but at some point you have to stop stomping your feet and saying, “I won’t give one red cent!” and be practical.
I somehow doubt most of the folks on here were contributing Rockefeller-size donations to the Church anyway.
 
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I’m not sure that those responding with a version of “I didn’t do anything wrong, I dislike the implication that I’m guilty, and I’m not going to do penance” have actually read the Holy Father’s statement. He asked that we join together as the body of Christ in acts of penance as a way of affirming belief in the Church’s social justice teachings and demonstrating to victims that we are all unified. The entire focus of his statement is on the biblical idea that “if one member suffers, all suffer together with it.” Do penance to unite with the victims.
 
I am coming from a mixed place. A place of outrage and love. That is what you do not understand. Im not coming from a place of acceptance, and explanation, like you are. I love our church and our priests, and that is why I didn’t let the fact one of them raped me drive me away.

As long as the church is covering up the fact I was raped and others like me were raped, I am not giving it any money. Im sorry if you have an issue with that. If you have an issue with that stop explaining it away, and change it.

What you are doing is not helping the crisis at all. And besides, I am in the middle of trying to pay for medical bills because I have a brain tumor, I dont have extra money to give a church that isn’t owning up to her sins.
 
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Actually I have read the entire article. But that isn’t going to change my mind because for me, this is a personal issue.
 
@Nichole I am so sorry for the hurt you have experienced :cry:

It seems many people here try to say that the Church has fixed its policies and procedures and that most of the abuse is all in the past, and they criticize people for withholding financial support based on these assumptions without considering the personal experiences of people within their own dioceses and parishes.

I also no longer financially support my parish or my diocese, and not just because of a scandal “somewhere else” in the Church or for past problems that are just now getting media attention. Rather, it is due to what I have personally witnessed being ignored and swept under the rug by priests and the bishop, and running into a brick wall at every turn when trying to get issues addressed.

Priests will agree that you have a valid concern and encourage you to talk to the bishop, but beg you not to mention their name to anyone else because “they still have to live in this brotherhood”. A priest encourages you to elevate your concerns one day, and then the next day drops all support and recommends that it is easier to just “let this issue go”. The bishop downplays and brushes off concerns. The archbishop and other bishops direct you back to your own bishop and don’t want to get involved…

We have all these safe environment standards we have to comply with when we work in ministry, that teach us all the red flags to look out for, yet the bishops ignore these red flags that are brought to their attention because “there has never been a credible allegation” in someones past, so any concerning or morally questionable behaviors of that person are just “personal hobbies or vices”.

When you tell them it is fracturing your parish family and causing people to leave the parish over concerns for the safety of their children around this new person, they respond that “there will always be people who struggle with changes”.

It is for these reasons that I no longer financially support my parish or diocese, and instead direct my charitable contributions to other needs in the Body of Christ.
 
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I’m sorry you don’t think I am “helping the crisis”. I am being honest about how I feel.
If that gets me flak, then that’s what I get.

You are not going to get a response you find “helpful” from everybody. People come at the issue from different perspectives.

I am also not going to guilt myself or be guilted because some other people did not find what I had to say “helpful”.

I pray you find healing and peace, and that you are also able to open your mind a bit to other people’s viewpoints that are not dismissive, but also are not exactly in line with how you think other people should behave, react, think or act.

God bless.
 
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I don’t see myself as having committed any sin.

With all due respect, since it seems you are now attacking me personally and calling me a “sinner” for not agreeing with you 100 percent, I am leaving the thread.

Again, God bless.
 
I am not calling you a sinner, I am asking you to ask yourself, is it sin to help cover up sexual abuse?

If you have done that, and know you have done that, then I am calling you a sinner. Its a general statement and has nothing to do with an opinion.
 
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My point on this entire thread has been that I do not CURRENTLY see any cover-up going on.

And of course I have not covered up anything myself, why would you think that? I am not a priest, have never worked for a church, was away from active Catholic practice for quite a number of years. I am not involved in this at all. Good bye.
 
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