B
buffalo
Guest
It also “protects” the Sanctuary.
Pope’s upcoming Apostolic Exhortation likely to call for increased liturgical solemni
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F
frommi
Guest
From what…a marauding horde of vikings?
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buffalo
Guest
Pretty much the same thing - lay people who want to be in the sanctuary when they don’t belong there.
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frommi
Guest
Oh right…I always forget that the key to fostering a greater appreciation in the real presence is to put up as many barriers as possible to the blessed sacrament.Pretty much the same thing - lay people who want to be in the sanctuary when they don’t belong there.
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buffalo
Guest
Ridiculous.
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otm
Guest
Given that the GIRM addresses when lay people are to be in the sanctuary and given that in most of the churches I have been to in the last couple of years, that is the only time they are there, then by your logic. it would not be needed, as they are only there when they belong there.Pretty much the same thing - lay people who want to be in the sanctuary when they don’t belong there.
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Brendan
Guest
Mostly because the use of both is the normative practice of the Church, and who am I to say the Church in wrong.
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frommi
Guest
You don’t seem to have any issue saying Bishops and Priests are wrong Brendan…why stop there?
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Brendan
Guest
Because the Pope is the authoritative source. Priests and Bishops exist to teach us what the Pope teaches.
When they depart from that, error results.
If you notice in all my posts, I have never, ever critized the teachings of Rome, only those who teach in opposition to her.
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frommi
Guest
And that’s where your eccliesology is incorrect…you treat “pope” like its another rank of holy orders, which it isnt.
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buffalo
Guest
Brendan is correct. The Pope is the guy. The Bishops can do nothing without the Pope. They must be in “communion” with the Pope.
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frommi
Guest
And the Pope must be in communion with them
The Pope is not “the guy”…
Again, that’s a corporate mentality which has been disproven time and time again by theologians and popes themselves.
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buffalo
Guest
Then we don’t need the Pope. The US Bishops can act alone and teach error without any accountability.
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buffalo
Guest
SO I have to trash my Catechism too. What a waste of money.
**882 **The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.” “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”
**937 **The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, “supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls” (*CD *2).
**882 **The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter’s successor, “is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.” “For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.”
**937 **The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, “supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls” (*CD *2).
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Brendan
Guest
You got it backwards there. It is not the Pope that must be in communion with them, it is the Faithful who must be in communion with the Pope. Communion is defined one’s relation to the Holy See.
Did you read *Pastor Aeternus * yet? It’s from the First Vatican Council.
It is only Bishop in communion with the Pope that teach without error or have authority of any type.
When they depart from that communion, they depart from their authority.
It is the Pope
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frommi
Guest
So…why be concerned at all about getting the lefebrveites (sp) back in the fold?
Could it be that even though they are ‘excommunicated’ that they have a valid claim to apostolic succession…and thus it isn’t good for anyone to have that line be unbroken?
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buffalo
Guest
Darned Catechism - just keeps coming up with these
**881 **The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. “The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.” This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.
**1594 **The bishop receives the fullness of the sacrament of Holy Orders, which integrates him into the episcopal college and makes him the visible head of the particular Church entrusted to him. As successors of the apostles and members of the college, the bishops share in the apostolic responsibility and mission of the whole Church under the authority of the Pope, successor of St. Peter.
**881 **The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. “The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.” This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.
**1594 **The bishop receives the fullness of the sacrament of Holy Orders, which integrates him into the episcopal college and makes him the visible head of the particular Church entrusted to him. As successors of the apostles and members of the college, the bishops share in the apostolic responsibility and mission of the whole Church under the authority of the Pope, successor of St. Peter.
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frommi
Guest
Which actually proves my point…
Brendan claims he only crticizes bishops, and never the Pope…well…I have news for all…the bishops are in college with the Pope, they are elected BY the Pope…so criticizing them and acting like you can go around your Bishop and simply be “loyal to Rome” is a false model of church.
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buffalo
Guest
One has to be loyal to Rome first, then his Bishop. If the Bishop is in communion with Rome then then everything is OK. If the Bishop teaches error, then he is not in communion with Rome.
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frommi
Guest
Ehhhh…No
The Bishop gets teaching authority in Communion with Rome…and unless that’s taken away, he’s the authority in a particular diocese.
End of story.
The Bishop is the Bishop.
The Pope is not the Bishop.
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