Pope Calls Laity to Responsibility in the Church

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Indeed. Before making the move to TLM only I often heard “Is Bob going to be here tonight/at the meeting/etc.?” (Yes, Fr. Bob was really real, for real. 😃 ). He is a Religious though…

It really grated my nerves to hear that. He is FATHER Bob, not “Bob”.
Yes. Exactly. Drives me nuts, too.
 
I don’t want to be familiar with my priests. I don’t want a false sense of bonhomie. We’re not pals. I don’t want to go to the pub with them.

I don’t want to call “him” Father Bob, or Father Bill. or Bob or Bill

Been there, done that. Threw away the T Shirt.

Unless you are in community with them I say stick to the proper titles.👍
I happen to agree with you, which is why I am a bit confused about this part of the article.
Recalling that Lumen Gentium spoke of the laity-clergy relationship as “familiar,” the Pontiff said it is "important to deepen and to live out this spirit of profound communion in the Church, which characterized the early Christian community, as the book of the Acts of the Apostles attests.
 
Too bad…our priest is a good friend as well. He is human and needs friendship as well. People are often too quick to tell a priest what they think is wrong…but not quick enough to provide encouragement or prayers…
I am very friendly with the priests I know, but when I address them, they are always Father LastName. I would never not call them Father.

There is a seminarian I am very friendly with and some of us were teasing him and asking how many years we had before we had to start calling him Father LastName.

Priests are priest and laity are laity.

I’m not sure if this part of Lumen Gentium is saying there shouldn’t be those distinctions.
 
The Pope’s actual statement may clarify the use of “familiar”:

“In this regard, the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium describes the nature of the relationships between laity and Pastors with the adjective “familiar”: “A great many wonderful things are to be hoped for from this familiar dialogue between the laity and their spiritual leaders: in the laity a strengthened sense of personal responsibility; a renewed enthusiasm; a more ready application of their talents to the projects of their spiritual leaders. The latter, on the other hand, aided by the experience of the laity, can more clearly and more incisively come to decisions regarding both spiritual and temporal matters. In this way, the whole Church, strengthened by each one of its members, may more effectively fulfill is mission for the life of the world” (n. 37).”

He says, “familiar dialogue.” He is not speaking of familiar ways of addressing one another.

May Christ’s peace be with you.
 
I am very friendly with the priests I know, but when I address them, they are always Father LastName. I would never not call them Father.

There is a seminarian I am very friendly with and some of us were teasing him and asking how many years we had before we had to start calling him Father LastName.

Priests are priest and laity are laity.

I’m not sure if this part of Lumen Gentium is saying there shouldn’t be those distinctions.
It’s always Father First name…never just his first name. That is how he prefers to be called (Father First name). I don’t understand what is wrong with that.🤷

I get that priests are priest and laity are laity…how does that make a difference in calling priest Father first name vs. Father last name if that is how they prefer to be called?

Seriously? Forest…trees…
 
I happen to agree with you, which is why I am a bit confused about this part of the article.
The early church was very communal. People shared what they had with each other, and saw to the needs of the entire community.
 
I happen to agree with you, which is why I am a bit confused about this part of the article.
This paragraph
Let the spiritual shepherds recognize and promote the dignity as well as the responsibility of the laity in the Church. Let them willingly employ their prudent advice. Let them confidently assign duties to them in the service of the Church, allowing them freedom and room for action. Further, let them encourage lay people so that they may undertake tasks on their own initiative. Attentively in Christ, let them consider with fatherly love the projects, suggestions and desires proposed by the laity.(8*) However, let the shepherds respectfully acknowledge that just freedom which belongs to everyone in this earthly city vatican.va/archive/hist_c…entium_en.html
precedes:
A great many wonderful things are to be hoped for from this familiar dialogue between the laity and their spiritual leaders: in the laity a strengthened sense of personal responsibility; a renewed enthusiasm; a more ready application of their talents to the projects of their spiritual leaders. The latter, on the other hand, aided by the experience of the laity, can more clearly and more incisively come to decisions regarding both spiritual and temporal matters. In this way, the whole Church, strengthened by each one of its members, may more effectively fulfill is mission for the life of the world.
So it’s NOT the relationships that are to be familiar, but the dialogue.
 
You’re accusing fellow Catholics of being in sin because they don’t agree with your interpretation of what Pope John Paul II wrote ? :rolleyes:

I need to leave this forum.

Jim
If you know of a civil forum where one can discuss authentic Catholic teachings then please let me know. You are one of the few sane voices on this forum. It would be a shame to see you go.
 
This paragraph

precedes:

So it’s NOT the relationships that are to be familiar, but the dialogue.

A dialogue that is described by the following words: willingly, confidently, freedom, encourage, fatherly love

I think that’s what they mean by familiar.
ty for the above 2 quotes that are full of meaning…
 
If you know of a civil forum where one can discuss authentic Catholic teachings then please let me know. You are one of the few sane voices on this forum. It would be a shame to see you go.
i hope that anyone who knows of other christian forums where one can discuss authentic catholic teaching, would let us know…
 
Too bad…our priest is a good friend as well. He is human and needs friendship as well. People are often too quick to tell a priest what they think is wrong…but not quick enough to provide encouragement or prayers…
I am a college professor, so I think I understand some of the frustration a priest can have in this area. You simply cannot replace a fully interpersonal relationship as between friends with an authoritative one such as a priest with the congregation or to a different extent a professor with his/her student.

I enjoy working with my students and I have solid relationships with many of them, but the simple truth is that as much as I enjoy it, it is also very draining. You simply cannot treat those students or parishioners the same way as you do a close friend. Leadership often involves being strong even when you feel weak. It means service that goes unappreciated because the focus is rightly not on the leaders but on those they serve. It also means that you cannot talk about matters that are close to your heart but unrelated to your job and possibly controversial. I don’t see how a parish priest can talk to parishioners about politics (that is not directly related to the church) for instance.

But a parish priest has it much worse, because they are alone. Only the lucky few have colleagues such as other priests or religious in their parish. Just as bad, priests are innately outsiders to the parish they serve. All parishes have a good portion of their tradition held by the laity, in particular prominent people and families, who have been in that parish for long before the priest becomes the pastor and will still be there long after he has left.

Which brings us, finally, back on topic. The laity do have a grave responsibility to preserve the Church and her traditions. We are drastically needed to hold a parish together and to provide almost all of the teaching of the next generation. It is a fearsome responsibility and to those of us who have tried to take it up as religious education teachers or as parents it is a responsibility that comes with almost no help from the priest or Bishops. (I would be interested to know how many RE teachers out there have the same experience as me, with priests that have virtually no participation in the RE other than to complain about something being wrong and with having to teach with no formal training or guidance about what a student is suppose to know at a given level.)

Basically, the Pope once again is giving us an ‘unfunded mandate’. It is great that he is acknowledging our responsibility; now he and the Bishops need to give us the resources to fulfill it.
 
I am a college professor, so I think I understand some of the frustration a priest can have in this area. You simply cannot replace a fully interpersonal relationship as between friends with an authoritative one such as a priest with the congregation or to a different extent a professor with his/her student.

I enjoy working with my students and I have solid relationships with many of them, but the simple truth is that as much as I enjoy it, it is also very draining. You simply cannot treat those students or parishioners the same way as you do a close friend. Leadership often involves being strong even when you feel weak. It means service that goes unappreciated because the focus is rightly not on the leaders but on those they serve. It also means that you cannot talk about matters that are close to your heart but unrelated to your job and possibly controversial. I don’t see how a parish priest can talk to parishioners about politics (that is not directly related to the church) for instance.

But a parish priest has it much worse, because they are alone. Only the lucky few have colleagues such as other priests or religious in their parish. Just as bad, priests are innately outsiders to the parish they serve. All parishes have a good portion of their tradition held by the laity, in particular prominent people and families, who have been in that parish for long before the priest becomes the pastor and will still be there long after he has left.

Which brings us, finally, back on topic. The laity do have a grave responsibility to preserve the Church and her traditions. We are drastically needed to hold a parish together and to provide almost all of the teaching of the next generation. It is a fearsome responsibility and to those of us who have tried to take it up as religious education teachers or as parents it is a responsibility that comes with almost no help from the priest or Bishops. (I would be interested to know how many RE teachers out there have the same experience as me, with priests that have virtually no participation in the RE other than to complain about something being wrong and with having to teach with no formal training or guidance about what a student is suppose to know at a given level.)

Basically, the Pope once again is giving us an ‘unfunded mandate’. It is great that he is acknowledging our responsibility; now he and the Bishops need to give us the resources to fulfill it.
I agree with much about what you are saying about a deep relationship with an authority figure can cause issues, but we still need to realize they need friendship as much as others.

On another note.

Your last statement confused however, why does evangelization need funding?

I might not know a lot, being only 21, but isn’t all he calling us to do is be faithful and preserve the tradition. Growing up Protestant, and living with a United Methodist Church I realized what has been the undoing of my Church, and what has hit the Catholic Church the hardest also, not keeping the tradition sacred.

You might think it’s something else, but let me tell you it’s exactly what it is.

My generation and the generations that are younger than me are LOST. Horribly lost, and they are starting to cling unto false philosophies, lies of the past, and NOT the holy sacred tradition of the Church. We forgotten it.

So what is Pope Benedict asking us to do? Keep to the tradition, teach it to our children with the resources that have ALWAYS been provided to us, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, prayer, Encyclicals of the Popes, the writings of the Saints, and the Holy Bible. We don’t need to spend millions of dollars of something that tells you to use the things I just listed out.

It’s the PARENTS job and all of the laity to make our children, and their children’s children understand that God came down in the flesh, died for our sins, and set up the One Truth Holy Apostolic Catholic Church for all to participate in.

We lost our way, and we fell into pride, now it’s time for the laity to do their part and get people back into the dang mass!
 
I agree with much about what you are saying about a deep relationship with an authority figure can cause issues, but we still need to realize they need friendship as much as others.

On another note.

Your last statement confused however, why does evangelization need funding?

I might not know a lot, being only 21, but isn’t all he calling us to do is be faithful and preserve the tradition. Growing up Protestant, and living with a United Methodist Church I realized what has been the undoing of my Church, and what has hit the Catholic Church the hardest also, not keeping the tradition sacred.

You might think it’s something else, but let me tell you it’s exactly what it is.

My generation and the generations that are younger than me are LOST. Horribly lost, and they are starting to cling unto false philosophies, lies of the past, and NOT the holy sacred tradition of the Church. We forgotten it.

So what is Pope Benedict asking us to do? Keep to the tradition, teach it to our children with the resources that have ALWAYS been provided to us, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, prayer, Encyclicals of the Popes, the writings of the Saints, and the Holy Bible. We don’t need to spend millions of dollars of something that tells you to use the things I just listed out.

It’s the PARENTS job and all of the laity to make our children, and their children’s children understand that God came down in the flesh, died for our sins, and set up the One Truth Holy Apostolic Catholic Church for all to participate in.

We lost our way, and we fell into pride, now it’s time for the laity to do their part and get people back into the dang mass!
indeed the best sound i love to hear is the sound of silence!..speak in silence, do you know that silence is a weapon that only very few of us know how to handle!
in the spiritual world we would be communicating with our thoughts only, i.e. in silence!
 
The Church nearly IS dead because of the Spirit of Vatican II craziness. The lunatics have had 40+ years now and guess what, it’s devolved. It’s insanity. The Pope is trying to correct things brought on by this insipid idea that the laity have to “do” something. Clearly defined roles!! Assisting at Mass is not particularly kinetic insofar as physicality. By this logic displayed, St. Therese of Lisieux didn’t do anything for missions because she wasn’t a missionary. Over 1500 years of success with the model of the TLM wherein the laity didn’t be pretend clerics. Vatican II was supposed to be an attempt at making better known to the world the Church’s stance on issues wherein the modern understanding of prior doctrinal language was being obscured by a changing world’s understanding. It failed. Now we have people thinking they can recognize the Church as the Church but not be Catholic. That doesn’t fly. Now we have people saying people can get to heaven by being good muslims and that muslims worship the same God. NO. They think they worship the same God. They in fact reject God. Protestants, in many ways, reject Christ. It was a travesty in action, though its intent was not so.

The Mass does not increase in Graces because so and so gets up and does things.

I encourage you to actually go to a High Mass and see how much the laity participate as far as responses.

I left the N.O. specifically because of the attitude displayed here. This attitude and understanding is destructive and gets people thinking they’re quasi-priests and other ridiculous ideas.

A portion of notes I took at a Michael Voris talk:

Did Our Lady bang a tambourine and read from the Torah at Calvary? Did Saint John say anything? NO. They kept their mouths shut while the High Priest, Christ, offered the ONLY Sacrifice acceptable to God for me, you, US. Enter the Alter Christus… Saint John, later, when conducting Mass, relived this moment, represented it, and THEN he said something: in the person of Christ.

Simple. Case Closed. End of Story. The modern travesty we see is NOT what was intended but is simply a rollercoaster of doom which the Pope is slowly trying to correct.

When laity get “good ideas” horrible things happen. It doesn’t help when the priests come from the laity of good ideas and themselves get wacky ideas.

The only good idea is for the lay Lectors to CEASE. Altar girls to CEASE. Altar Rails to be reinstated. Etc.

Seriously, WATCH one of the Papal Masses in Rome. It’s: in Latin, ad orientem, no girl altar servers… and the Holy Father distributes Holy Communion on the tongue and kneeling. If Priests are devoted to the Successor of St. Peter, they will follow this example. Instead, they have good ideas. Kill me now Lord, kill me now. Wait, never mind, Summorum Pontificum is my life jacket in the sea of modern vomit.
you appear to be anti-vatican two, say there is insanity and presume that you are more enlightened than pope benedict, who represents Christ…and give any no. of good ideas like reversal of a few reforms made…with what authority you speak?
 
Basically, the Pope once again is giving us an ‘unfunded mandate’. It is great that he is acknowledging our responsibility; now he and the Bishops need to give us the resources to fulfill it.
The resource is available at each and every Mass. The Holy Eucharist is our source and summit for our Faith.
 
There shouldn’t be a power struggle:

In fact we should stop thinking about power when it comes to the Church.
I was listening to a commentary on the last year of Blessed John Paul’s pontificate. Especially near the end, the secular world kept viewing the Holy Father as weak and passing (despite that he kept on ministering up to the end). They miss this very point you make. The Holy Father was never more effective than when he was on the cross united with Jesus. It was this very suffering that** is** the work of the Church.
 
you appear to be anti-vatican two, say there is insanity and presume that you are more enlightened than pope benedict, who represents Christ…and give any no. of good ideas like reversal of a few reforms made…with what authority you speak?
There will always be those who dissent from where the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church. We must not be sidetracked by such things. I live by the motto of lead, follow, or get out of the way when it comes to ministry. We have crossed the threshhold into the modern world and the Church is poised to enter this millenium with hope for our future, our doctrine sound and our Sacramental life sustaining us. If one does not want to put the hand to the plow, then for goodness sake do not denigrate those that are willing.
 
If one does not want to put the hand to the plow, then for goodness sake do not denigrate those that are willing. q u o t e

for the harvest is great but the labourers are few
 
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