Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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jfz178 said:
So either you believe, like I do, that imperfect men can carry on apostolic succession, or we need to fold the whole Roman Catholic tent and do something else.
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^^^This.

If not, we are not the True Church. If the Church folds because of this, then the Promise and the Authority of the Keys handed down to Peter in the Bible and that never the gates of hades would prevail, was just a fable. It means there is no “Church” no “Bible” and no divinity of Christ. Just fairy tales. It would mean the God we thought we found, is not God, that we have to look elsewhere. It would be an incomparable disaster.

However, the Church has survived scoundrels and scandals all along it’s 2000-year existence. It will survive this. If it doesn’t, then it wasn’t the Church, and we aren’t the People of God. So have faith, and pray!
Canvas said:
This reeks of a personal agenda. He didn’t do anything until after this issue was already settled.
He isn’t a whistleblower. The whistle blew and now he is just getting his knocks in.
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This too. I suspect a good old fashioned Italian vendetta. Francis has been shaking the tree a lot to get the rotten fruit to fall out. And he has ruffled a lot of feathers along the way.
rcwitness said:
Can you share an example of how Burke is polarizing?
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At this stage in our history, we need a pope who wears a sackcloth and ashes. Would cardinal Burke be that kind of pope?
 
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This is truly shocking news. These allegations are very serious and deserve to be investigated.

But even if these allegations are true I will not leave the Church, and I strongly advise all Catholics on this site not to either. This is not the first scandal the Church has faced or even a Pope has faced. I once read a great book, Good Pope, Bad Pope by Mike Aquilina, wherein he biographied some of the best AND worst Pope out Church had. The worst Pope boigraphed did fare worse than our current Holy Father is accused of allegedly doing.

Point is, our Faith is not in one man. It is in Christ, and in the Church He built. And he promised us that no matter what, the Gates of Hell would never prevail against it (Matthew 16:18).emphasized text
 
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And, wasn’t Vigano just recently FIRED by Pope Francis? Perhaps Vigano’s personal statements should not be taken at face value. It’s probably best to wait to see how this plays out.

Also, I believe I’ve read recently that only God has the authority to remove a pope from office. A pope may resign of his own volition, but only God can remove him.
 
Technically, Francis waited until his retirement age, but he got the pink slip. Francis did it quietly, without making a scene, but chose not to keep the guy on.
 
OraLabora said:
At this stage in our history, we need a pope who wears a sackcloth and ashes. Would cardinal Burke be that kind of pope?
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I would hope all candidates have a spirit of repentance for clerical abuses. Appointing clergy with a history of sexual misconduct to greater positions of influesnce is far from “wearing sacloth and ashes”, no?
 
www.theamericanconservative.com

Vatican Bombshell: McCarrick Conspiracy Uncovered!

Ex-Vatican ambassador to US tells all about the lavender mafia, and demands Francis's resignation
www.theamericanconservative.com www.theamericanconservative.com

Has this been posted? More info on how this change stuff is getting through by Francis - McCarrick is a huge player in all this. And Francis knows his background - for about 5 years.
 
rcwitness said:
I would hope all candidates have a spirit of repentance for clerical abuses. Appointing clergy with a history of sexual misconduct to greater positions of influesnce is far from “wearing sacloth and ashes”, no?
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Indeed it is far from it, but I will wait for more before tarring and feathering the Holy Father. One man’s allegations do not a conviction make.

But the question posed was not Francis’s guilt or innocence, it was suggested that Burke could be a replacement for him should he elect step down. So my question still stands, would he be type of pope that would wear the sackcloth and ashes called for by the times?

If it’s fair to speculate that Burke could replace Francis, then it’s fair to speculate that Burke might not, in fact, be the right man for the job regardless of his no doubt many personal qualities.
 
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The problem is there are a lot of facts, evidence - these are not just blind allegations. We have been right all along to call it a culture war, or a move to change fundamental Church teachings - mainly on homosexuality. The joy of love was just the first tease. The problem that will get the lavender boys in trouble will be the sexual assaults, predator behavior. Internally that was irrelevant but I think when all this comes out that won’t work so well, in the wider public I mean, inside and outside the Church.
 
I will still wait for more. It is still one man’s accusation.

I’m not sure I see the connection between Amoris Laetitia and changing fundamental Church teachings on homosexuality. Nor is this a progressive vs. conservative issue. McCarrick, a progressive, is accused of the same thing O’Brien, a conservative, admitted to doing, having sex with seminarians in full contradiction to Church teaching on sexuality.

Pope Francis will either deny and offer a vigorous defence. Or he will admit its is true, apologize, and be the one to wear the sackcloth and ashes and we move on with his ability to influence the future greatly diminished; the Curia will have gotten Benedict out, and castrated Francis. Or he will resign and the Curia will have gotten two in a row…

I fear that if he does resign, it will take a LONG time for the white smoke to appear at the next conclave and the discussions in the Sistine Chapel will be heated enough to char Michelangelo’s frescoes right off the ceilings…
 
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Michael Voris is on the warpath regarding the issue. Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong has said the following:
I say at this point, that IF indeed the reports about Pope Francis knowing about Cardinal McCarrick and his outrageous sins since 2013 are TRUE, that he should resign: in accordance with my strongly stated views about anyone who commits these crimes or covers for them.

That said, the Holy Father is entitled to defend himself against such serious charges. He isn’t to be immediately presumed guilty based on one man’s report. But how does the Church go about having some sort of trial-like inquiry, which can get to the facts in the most objective and impartial way?

I have no idea.
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www.politico.eu

‘Heretic’ in the Vatican

Pope Francis faces pushback from the church’s arch-conservatives.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu

Here’s an interesting article from a few months back giving an insight what just might be happening at the Vatican
 
I pray for a purified Church, whatever that entails, even if the result is a remnant. Purified of unholy clerics, purified of homosexualism at all levels, purified of pride and the spirit of secularism among clergy and people alike. God’s will be done.
 
One interesting thing about this is that I feel like the battles that take place on CAF are also taking place in the upper echelons of the Church hierarchy. 😐
 
Mark121359 said:
I’m not so sure I can even trust their word…but that’s just me.
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It’s me too.

I"m sorry, but the vast majority of posts here are simply clueless. This is NOT a question of “liking” or "not liking " Francis, or being “liberal” or “conservative.” It’s a case of right vs. wrong. It’s a case of saying one thing (we should punish those who covered up) and doing another (actually covering up).

Is Vigano lying? Why would he do that? If he is, surely he would realize his lie would be disproved. Is he crazy? No one has suggested that yet. Has he simply got his facts wrong? It doesn’t seem like it–he seems to be one of the principals in the case. What other scenarios are there? Are any of them plausible?

Vigano’s motivation is totally irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the truth of his allegation: did Francis ignore Benedict’s sanctions on McCarrick, brush off Vigano’s advice, and put into a trusted position a homosexual cardinal who now has admitted to his mistakes? If he did, he is saying one thing and doing another. If we can all be happy with a pope who does that, then we don’t have a problem. Otherwise, we have a crisis with only one good solution–resignation.

One thing a lot of people don’t get yet is the importance of this issue: Sexual abuse is THE issue in the church right now. Any other issues we may disagree with other Catholics about are insignificant compared to this.

We’ll find out as this unfolds.
 
I, like many, wanted to know: who had been complicit with McCarrick’s crimes? I think the impact of this letter is more the answer to that question, than what the Holy Father knew or did. Reading the letter, it gives us the who and how. Is it accurate? I don’t know, but the more I read, the less it seemed like score settling and the more it seemed to be the answer to the question.
 
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