Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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I pray this is all an ugly nightmare and that tomorrow we all wake up and it’s back to reality. Since that’s not going to happen, I hope the pope is being falsely accused. If Pope Francis did know all this and he is part of the grand cover up, my hope is that he sets the example of acceptance, repentance, penance, and reform. I don’t want him to resign. That is the easy way out.
 
ConcernedConvert said:
It really shouldn’t matter why he waited to now, whether it be personal, political or spiritual. One way or the other this crap needs to be exposed and needs to be exposed now.
This is very serious information being provided by a very solid and serious source.
The best time to tell was yesterday, the next best time to tell is today!
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Unless of course this person is no more trustworthy than Cardinal McCarrick. How do you know this person doesn’t have something against Pope Francis? How do we know anyone is telling the whole truth about this scandal? The answer is, we don’t. It never fails, in times of crisis like this, human being will be human beings, they tend to look out for number one in many cases. Sorting out who is telling the truth and who is not is next to impossible.
 
JMM1957 said:
It never fails, in times of crisis like this, human being will be human beings, they tend to look out for number one in many cases.
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And that’s why we need corroboration/evidence before deciding that Vigano is lying, OR that Pope Francis is part of the evil.
According to a post above, even Voris says “IF” the charges are true. Surprised me, but that’s a good thing in this case.
 
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Erikaspirit16:
Is Vigano lying? Why would he do that? If he is, surely he would realize his lie would be disproved. Is he crazy?
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Does a person do a criminal act expecting to get caught?
 
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Peebo said:
Here’s an interesting article from a few months back giving an insight what just might be happening at the Vatican
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From the article:
But if Francis fails to ensure a liberal succession before he’s gone, his conservative opposition could yet prevail.

A pope’s real power lies in his mandate to appoint the cardinals who will vote in his successor, and there too Francis has been making strides. In June, he will hand out 14 new red hats, including three to key collaborators. At that point he will have selected 47 percent of the 125 voter-cardinals eligible to choose his successor, just shy of a majority.

If Francis can hold on for several more years until he can rally enough cardinals, he may be able to guarantee that his legacy is not lost. “It’s a numbers game,”

This is certainly no game. I would hope that the Pope is primarily after the goal of saving souls, not preserving a legacy. I am not accusing him of that but I do not see the fruit of salvation on the rise because of his actions so far. If he is focused on the numbers game of changing the makeup of the College of Cardinals in the same fashion going forward, bouncing the orthodox conservatives in favor of more progressives, I think it will be short lived. There are too many Catholics that think we are going in the wrong direction and they will stop funding the perpetual slide into, what looks like to me, oblivion.
 
There is no (unless of course) in today’s church unfortunately… there is plain and simple some serious problems occurring with our leaders and they need exposed. I’m not saying to have a witch hunt, but real and thorough investigations exposing the sickness that has infected the church.
Also this is as credible of a source as we can get.
 
I am actually reading through this stuff now - Edward Pentin’s piece on Benedict’s sanctions against McCarrick not being carried through. (sorry if this all has already been discussed) I am just now realizing the full scope of this - how all this implicates Francis who supported and befriended McCarrick in full knowledge. How could he have not known even back to Benedict? Wow. McCarrick was a major player between the Vatican Curia and the US; he maneuvered in Cupich and Tobin as well and the whole Irish families thing was set up for Martin and Farrell. It is all connected.
 
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JMM1957 said:
Unless of course this person is no more trustworthy than Cardinal McCarrick. How do you know this person doesn’t have something against Pope Francis? How do we know anyone is telling the whole truth about this scandal? The answer is, we don’t. It never fails, in times of crisis like this, human being will be human beings, they tend to look out for number one in many cases. Sorting out who is telling the truth and who is not is next to impossible.
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It’s fairly obvious that he does have something against the Pope. Also obvious that the Pope has something against Cardinal Burke. Neither is proof of anything. I am confident the truth will come out however. Too much has been exposed, one way or the other.

To the criticism that Vigono has his own coverup to defend, that too should be scrutinized. Did he do it on orders from above? Was he part of a larger coverup or was it his alone? I don’t yet see where he had any motive for a self serving coverup. In the end, the MN problem was exposed. If he is as culpable for a cover up as those he has exposed, it does not prove that he is less believable.
 
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Wow. So that’s the flip side…

Yes, there is definitely a battle going on among the high clergy.
 
This is a multi-prong attack.
I was recalling today the change in receiving Holy Communion over the years.
  1. On the tongue at altar rail on knees - server with communion plate
  2. In line on tongue in line - server with communion plate
  3. In hand in line
  4. In hand, cup introduced
  5. in hand, cup, no kneeling at the Consecration
There have been so many different degradations over the past 30-40 years.
 
rcwitness said:
It makes me appreciate Benedict even more!
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Benedict didn’t fix the problem. And he was a powerful clergyman for decades. That isn’t to denigrate Benedict but more to point out that having the ‘right’ pope doesn’t mean a perfect Church or one where his agenda will be carried out.
 
angel12 said:
And that’s why we need corroboration/evidence before deciding that Vigano is lying, OR that Pope Francis is part of the evil.
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I honestly don’t think those are the only two options. I think Vigano is telling the truth as he sees it. But that doesn’t necessarily mean he has drawn the correct conclusions from the details he has provided, particularly with regards to his comments about Pope Francis.
 
It seems to me either way this allegation is a disaster. Either way you have a bishop of the Church behaving horribly. Either one is a liar or the other helped a high ranking clergyman abuser to continue. No outcome from this allegation is good. Either way the Church is far less trustworthy. This is truly horrible.
F_Marturana said:
Pope Benedict is still alive and of sound mind. Would he have just kept this quiet for the entire time Pope Francis has been Pope?
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Unfortunately Catholic bishops have shown remarkable skill in keeping quiet. It is a systemic problem.
 
I became Catholic during Benedict’s office, but I don’t remember all the mass confusion and desire for confusing statements and letters to be clarified, yet left hanging.

And Benedict defrocked 384 priests in two years over sexual abuse.

Maybe Pope Francis has taken similar action?
 
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ConcernedConvert said:
There is no (unless of course) in today’s church unfortunately… there is plain and simple some serious problems occurring with our leaders and they need exposed. I’m not saying to have a witch hunt, but real and thorough investigations exposing the sickness that has infected the church.
Also this is as credible of a source as we can get.
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Yes, quite possibly it is. Multiple witnesses coming forward making the same statements is even more credible.
 
I don’t see how Francis survives this. Between these credible allegations and the fact that he has shown no will to clean up this mess I hope he resigns.
 
I’m pretty new here, but let’s set aside the question of whether the allegations are credible. Even if they are, everyone has an agenda, and everyone is being selective about which allegations they take seriously. In all likelihood, there are guilty bishops across the political spectrum, from the most liberal to the most conservative. If your primary objective is to tell a story with clear heroes and villains, you’re going to fail and you shouldn’t be taken seriously.
 
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