Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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This is very disappointing. To say that people are out to get the pope because, “frankly, he’s a Latino”? What does he base that claim on?
 
OneSheep said:
There must have been some reason for Francis to trust the man. This is part of what we don’t know.
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According to McCarrick, he and Pope Francis have been quite close. They share the same agenda for the Church. Cardinal McCarrick spoke at Villanova U shortly after election of Pope Francis in talk entitled, "Who is Pope Francis?” Who is Pope Francis? - YouTube
He recounts how Bergoglio came to be elected. During first week in Rome, a “very distinguished and influential Italian gentleman came to see me and suggested Bergoglio: ‘He could do it, you know,’ said the gentleman, ‘……He could remake the Church….If he had 5 years he could make the Church over again.’”
McCarrick seemed pleased with his influence during the conclave. During his 5 minute 15 second address to the cardinals, he says he encouraged the electors to look for 3 things: 1) the one who is elected must not be afraid of the poor. 2) If the next pope isn’t from Latin America, he must be close to Latin America because that’s where half of Catholics are from, and 3) he didn’t recall his third point.
He also claimed, “If he (PF) has 2 years, he will change the papacy, but it will take longer than 6 months. Unfortunately, any time Benedict had vacancies, he filled them. He needs time to nominate enough bishops and archbishops. Hopefully, enough will turn 80 so he can put in those who are of his mind. I could name 20 right now who would be of his mind. Just need time to do that.”
McCarrick could have been spouting off nonsense, I don’t know. However, when one starts to look at the various bishops who have been elevated by Francis and recognizes that some of these men have also been close to McCarrick, it’s a possibility.
 
Extremely absurd and embarrassing. How are any of the things he spouted off more important than corruption in the Church? Why throw race into this mess? The whole statement was enfuriating to me. It’s as if he’s trying to distract but he’s not very good at it. I have seen kindergarteners better at causing distractions. It’s almost like he pointed and yelled, “LOOK! A distraction!”
 
If there was a kingmaker at the 2013 conclave, it was Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, the former Archbishop of Westminster who died last year. This has been well-documented. Bergoglio’s closest ally in the US church was O’Malley. McCarrick wasn’t even at the conclave. It’s not impossible that Francis and McCarrick were close, but there’s just no way that McCarrick was ever the power behind the throne, as some seem to be suggesting.
 
Vigano alludes to fact that Pietro Sambi, Nuncio prior to him, died “prematurely” He would have been the one to impose the sanctions on McCarrick. Whether or not he left a paper trail is not known.
 
kyrie03 said:
Vigano alludes to fact that Pietro Sambi, Nuncio prior to him, died “prematurely” He would have been the one to impose the sanctions on McCarrick. Whether or not he left a paper trail is not known.
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Indeed. The most we can say is that a man that worked in Sambi’s office confirmed what Vigano said.
 
That part you quoted was bad, but I thought this part was far worse.
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+Cupich: "Quite frankly, they also don't like him (Francis) because he's a Latino" Catholic News
Wow. So a bishop has now called people who don’t like the sex abuse scandals racists. Racism is the real problem? This is of course a terrible calumny.
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kyrie03 said:
He recounts how Bergoglio came to be elected. During first week in Rome, a “very distinguished and influential Italian gentleman came to see me and suggested Bergoglio: ‘He could do it, you know,’ said the gentleman, ‘……He could remake the Church….If he had 5 years he could make the Church over again.’”
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Yikes! Now that is some real scary stuff if you ask me. After 2,000 years, a sect of the Catholic hierarchy is looking to elect a Pope who will change the Church established on earth by Jesus Christ. I really wonder what they wanted to remake it in to?
 
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There sure is a lot of we just didn’t know going around.
13pollitos said:
This is very disappointing. To say that people are out to get the pope because, “frankly, he’s a Latino”? What does he base that claim on?
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It’s calumny. It is shameful. It actually works to confirm the general problem identified by the accusations. If ‘they are racists’ is your defense then you don’t have much of one.
 
I also believe campaigning outside the conclave is forbidden. If that went on it would be problematic.
 
I have to be honest here. I laughed out loud when I watched that video. It was so stunningly ridiculous that I couldn’t believe an archbishop and cardinal was making it!

My family is Latin American. We have never even thought about that being a reason someone would be “out to get Pope Francis” at all.
 
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Well that doesn’t really answer the question as to why he trusted the bishop.
 
If you watch the video of McCarrick’s speech at Villanova, one doesn’t get impression that campaigning outside the election is happening, only that McCarrick and Bergolio have a similar mindset about the mission of the Church…to reach those on “the periphery”…the poor, sick, marginalized, discriminated, etc…
Here are some quotes of McCarrick describing Pope Francis::

“His love for the poor is Biblical. It is that powerful.”
"He’s a wise man, He’s a brilliant man. He cites great philosophers, poets, ancients, and puts it all together. He has ability to talk so freely and brilliantly about what is going on in the world.
“When we speak of Lord sometimes, and he is like the Lord….he (Francis) is always gentle, kind gracious, forgiving, always telling it like it is, always understanding of human nature.”
“He is like the great saints in so many ways. Like Jesus, he doesn’t judge. Jesus brought people to his Father to judge, and so does Francis.”
“We have never had such a pastor in so long a time. They will find in Francis, like the Pied Piper, one to follow.”

McCarrick’s influence with Pope Francis seems more likely to be in suggestions for bishops and cardinals. Here is an example in the naming of Tobin: Having maintained an enduring devotion for and among the Jersey church since his transfer to the capital in 2000, McCarrick – who Francis is said to revere as “a hero” of his – made a direct appeal over recent weeks for Tobin to be named to Newark, according to two sources familiar with the cardinal’s thinking.
https://whispersintheloggia.blogspo...newark-pope-brings-big-red-in.html_emphasized text_
 
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If 2 people share a similar view, they are more likely to trust each other…no? And I’m not suggesting there’s anything wrong with it. It’s normal.

See above post…claim of reporter is that Francis reveres McCarrick as a “hero”
 
It is interesting that all I have seen to refute Archbishop Viganò’s testimony is a bunch of attacks on his character and on the character of anyone who would take the testimony seriously.

Viganò hates the Pope, Viganò wants payback for being fired, Viganò has a personal vendetta against the Sec of State, Viganò is homophobic, Viganò covered up a different abuse case, Viganò is a racist, Viganò is right wing. Any Bishop who issues a statement saying the testimony is credible is a racist homophobic right wing hypocrite playing church politics. They hate the Pope’s attempt at reform. The Bishops like their confortable, pompous life. Etc etc.

What I have not seen is any attempt whatsoever to investigate Archbishop Vigano’s claims or to take them seriously by any “supporters” of the Pope. The AB mentioned that many of his claims are corroborated by letters and documents held by the Vatican. Maybe we should try and track those down. But nope, he is just a pope hater, which is just another name for fake Catholic, and his claims should be dismissed as a matter of course.

I don’t know whether what the Archbishop claims is true or not. Maybe Pope Francis knew all about McCarrick and reinstated him anyways. Maybe he was misled by advisors. Maybe he had no knowledge of it at all. Maybe AB Viganò is a pathological liar. I have no idea, but I would like to know. And shouting down the accusations as a preposterous and unsubstantiated attack on the Pope sets off a lot of red flags that perhaps there is at least a grain of truth to the testimony. Attacking the messenger and ignoring the message will only confirm in many minds that what the Archbishop says is true. There is no ignoring this.
 
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A bigger agenda than moral rot infecting the church at all levels. Fascinating…
 
kyrie03 said:
“We have never had such a pastor in so long a time. They will find in Francis, like the Pied Piper, one to follow.”
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Yeah, that didn’t work out so well for those that followed the Pied Piper, did it.
 
Wow. If I didn’t know any better I would have thought that quote was a parody. How daft can that comment be???
 
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