Pope Francis Must Resign: Archbishop Vigano

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That and “look at all the other agencies that work with children.”
I’d expect this kind of argument from an eight year old, not a grown man and a cardinal.
 
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For as much as we all complained about the more “hands-off” moderation system that went into place last year, I love the fact that obvious trolls can be immediately hidden by a critical mass of us, before the moderators even get involved 👍
 
He really knows how to douse flames…(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
All, please note, I meant to flag as inappropriate a post above by a new member, instead I hit the like button. It was a mistake, I have fixed it, but if anyone saw my “like”, please know it was not intentional. The poster should be banned
 
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pnewton said:
Yes, I am serious. The fact that no actions are mentioned, or come readily to mind, make my point. Words like “real” is used instead of anything concrete. Parishes in the United States are as honest and transparent as the law, and the mission of the Church, allows. Confession will never be open, nor will personnel files be made available on the internet.

I have one actual suggestion though. As it is, all dioceses are required to have a person to insure compliance with the Dallas Charter. My diocese requires a compliance person at the parish level. To the extent that this charter is followed, children are protected. I would add that it would be good for every diocese, and every organization not under a diocese, to be audited from someone at the national, or international (Vatican) level. Audits should be public. However, I do not think the public to be general intelligent enough to understand that a deficiency in an audit does not equate to child abuse or scandal. Maybe making the audits public would cause more problems. There are too many people that will not be happy with anything, as long as the Catholic Church exists.
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I don’t agree that no actions are mentioned. But if you think something more concrete is needed here are five obvious ideas off the top of my head:
  1. Public admission that the Church is in crisis, and that the crisis is the fault of the Church’s leadership.
  2. Actually removing from ministry and authority all those credibly accused of committing abuses, and all of those that knew of those abuses and did nothing.
  3. Admitting that the Church has developed and/or countenanced a culture of abuse, and initiate serious study of how to correct and reverse that culture.
  4. Install qualified lay people into positions of authority at all levels of the Church.
  5. Open all aspects of the Church to transparency and accountability, including in such things as finances, personnel decisions, and so forth.
Although all of those would be controversial, none would be unmanageable, and none should create any theological issues. They would be at least a start, and we could see where they take us. That said, I don’t hold myself out as an expert on ecclesial reform, but you don’t have to be an expert to see that what we have been doing for the last couple hundred years is not working.
 
George Weigel has given his opinion (I was waiting for this), as I would value his thoughts more than anyone:

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www.firstthings.com
 
From Fr. Gerald Murray;

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www.firstthings.com
“The fact that Pope Francis refused to answer questions about Viganò’s charges on the flight back from the World Meeting of Families in Ireland is telling. How likely is it that an innocent man would let these multiple serious charges of malfeasance remain unanswered? Certainly possible, but highly unlikely.”
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I believe the things that Archbishop Vigano stated in his letter should be able to be investigated. As others have stated the Vatican keeps everything.

I noticed in Vigano’s 11 page letter a footnote on page 2: “In writing up a memo1 on these documents that were entrusted to me,…”

and then the footnote at the bottom of the page reads: “1. All the memos, letters and other documentation mentioned here are available at the Secretariat of State of the Holy See or at the Apostolic Nunciature in Washington, D.C.”

It is almost as if he is saying, go and check out what I am saying, you will find it all documented.
 
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pnewton said:
Parishes in the United States are as honest and transparent as the law, and the mission of the Church, allows.
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No, a Parish is as honest and transparent as the people who work in them are. The same applies to the diocese when it comes to reporting, and properly handling the (mainly) priests who are accused or found to have credibly done something wrong. You can claim this is no longer a problem as much as you want. Thankfully, there are people who are not satisfied yet and will stand with the victims until it really is no longer a problem. Kids are still being abused albeit far fewer of them. Seminarians are still being abused and it is not satisfactorily investigated and/or covered up.
 
From May, 2012: then Cardinal McCarrick receives an award at an event in NYC which Archbishop Vigano attends. They pose for a group pic together. McCarrick in the middle, Vigano on the right.

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This article is about the event:

www.cny.org

Recalling ‘Pagan Babies’ and the Sense of Mission They Inspired - Catholic New York

They were called “pagan babies,” certainly not the most sensitive appellation and one that would never be used today. When Father Andrew Small, O.M.I., asked who remembered them at the inaugural World Mission Dinner May 2 at the Pierre Hotel in Manhattan, a few hands went up, mostly belonging to...
www.cny.org www.cny.org

The missionary spirit was evident as Pontifical Mission Societies honored three people at the gala. Each in his or her own way has been a missionary of the Gospel of Christ. Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, retired Archbishop of Washington; best-selling author Mary Higgins Clark; and television commentator Larry Kudlow were each named 2012 Pontifical Ambassadors for Mission. Each was presented with a medallion featuring a representation of the Papal Keys.

In accepting his medallion, Cardinal McCarrick summed up the missionary spirit. “There is in the heart of every priest, and I hope in the heart of every Christian, the longing to be a missionary, to be a proclaimer of the Good News to the ends of the earth,” he said. “I’ve been fortunate to travel to various parts of the world and to admire (our missionaries’) extraordinary love of the world and of the people with whom they live.”

Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, apostolic nuncio to the United States who greeted guests on behalf of Pope Benedict XVI, called the Pontifical Mission Societies “instruments for cooperation in the universal mission of the Church across the world.”

“Through their action the proclamation of the Gospel also becomes an intervention on behalf one’s neighbor, justice for the poorest, possibility of education in the most remote villages, medical aid in isolated places, emancipation from poverty and rehabilitation for the marginalized, overcoming ethnic divisions and respect for life in all its stages,” Archbishop Vigano said.
 
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So what does is the importance of this event in regards to the current issues?
 
It was a public event in May 2012 hosted by Cardinal Dolan where then-Cardinal McCarrick was given a medal, Archbishop Vigano was present as Benedict’s representative and even took a group picture with McCarrick.

It undermines the claim that Pope Benedict put Cardinal McCarrick under similar sanctions that he is now under when he was Pope and that Francis “rehabilitated” McCarrick and lifted the sanctions. Even if there was any punishment for McCarrick under Benedict, it was kept secret and no one seemed to enforce it.

Also, Vigano was there and did nothing to impede McCarrick from getting an award from the Pontifical Mission Society and being publicly honored.
 
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pnewton said:
Interesting how the exact nature of these alleged sanctions are not known, even the year they happened. Could it be that something happened, but it unofficial? That might explain one discrepancy in AB Vigano’s letter. He seems quite sure about some details, but vague on others. That is the nature of how the mind works, at the best of times. One’s emotions and opinions can distort memory even more. There may a lot that is untrue in any testimony without consciously lying.
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Yes, I don’t really believe that Vigano is lying, but I also don’t think that means everything he asserts is true.
 
What do you think Archbishop Vigano should have done? Refused to attend? How should he have impeded the presentation?
 
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Or it could show that sanctions were widely ignored. McCarrick himself had he been under sanction might have had a duty to not appear here. That he did, if that were true, would reflect upon his character.
 
If Vigano knew Mccarrick was under Papal censure, wouldn’t it be his duty to inform Cardinal Dolan and prevent McCarrick from being publicly honored?
 
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